FF #5 - Susan Ciccone Restoration Lab - before/after

[DrWatson]

I have no problem expressing an opinion regarding Ms. Ciccone. I think the work she does is quite good, for her level of skill. For your benefit, I will be a little more blunt. I think the restoration world has passed her by and she should be thankful for every job she gets these days.

 

Look, I have no bone to pick with you, but if you've never met or had any work done by Susan, then I have to say this is the single worst characterization I've read about anyone, anywhere, ever!

I have had three books restored by Ms. Ciccone.

 

Based on your assessment of her, I'm assuming you've since started using Matt?

I stopped having books restored.

[comicwiz]

I have no problem expressing an opinion regarding Ms. Ciccone. I think the work she does is quite good, for her level of skill. For your benefit, I will be a little more blunt. I think the restoration world has passed her by and she should be thankful for every job she gets these days.

 

Look, I have no bone to pick with you, but if you've never met or had any work done by Susan, then I have to say this is the single worst characterization I've read about anyone, anywhere, ever!

I have had three books restored by Ms. Ciccone.

 

Based on your assessment of her, I'm assuming you've since started using Matt?

I stopped having books restored.

 

I'll admit that I'm not a fan of restoring books. But we are collectors of paper, plain and simple, and with it are aspects of paper conservation the become part of the territory.

 

I'm all for word of mouth behaviour when it is authentic and merit-based. And I don't want to seem like I'm harping on this point or singling you out (because there are certainly others who have done the same), but wouldn't some comparison of similar work performed by another person in the restoration/conservation camp be necessary to share an opinion like the one you have?

[DrWatson]

I have no problem expressing an opinion regarding Ms. Ciccone. I think the work she does is quite good, for her level of skill. For your benefit, I will be a little more blunt. I think the restoration world has passed her by and she should be thankful for every job she gets these days.

 

Look, I have no bone to pick with you, but if you've never met or had any work done by Susan, then I have to say this is the single worst characterization I've read about anyone, anywhere, ever!

I have had three books restored by Ms. Ciccone.

 

Based on your assessment of her, I'm assuming you've since started using Matt?

I stopped having books restored.

 

I'll admit that I'm not a fan of restoring books. But we are collectors of paper, plain and simple, and with it are aspects of paper conservation the become part of the territory.

 

I'm all for word of mouth behaviour when it is authentic and merit-based. And I don't want to seem like I'm harping on this point or singling you out (because there are certainly others who have done the same), but wouldn't some comparison of similar work performed by another person in the restoration/conservation camp be necessary to share an opinion like the one you have?

I've seen first hand examples of Ms. Ciccone's work and as I said earlier, I thought it was quite good for the type of work being performed. I have also seen examples of Matt's work and Kenny's. I know they are on the cutting edge of restoration and continue to push the envelope. It seems to me that Ms. Ciccone is content to be where she is currently in the restoration market and if that is the type of work one is needing performed, then she would certainly be among the choice service providers. If the work required something more challenging, then I would pursue other avenues.

[VintageComics]

The cost of restoring anything, whether a house, car, armoire or comic involves too many variables to reduce it to a simple formula. Restoration cost is tied to the individual article and the specific work it needs and is not based upon the average amount a dozen people have paid to purchase an item over the last year.

 

 

This is very true. I've had both Susan and Tracey look at books and estimate them for me and it is a very individual thing.

 

Too many variables.

 

If anyone is interested in restoring a book, make good pics and scans, send a detailed email to your favorite conservationist and see what they say. It's that easy.

 

R.

 

 

Every book is different, but I agree with those who do not see any big deal in just saying what the restoration cost. Jesus, all of this secrecy is like we're talking about the true identity of JFK's assassin or something. Lest Foom think he's doing Susan a favor by not saying what it cost, the truth is that it would probably drive business her way if she were a little more open about what each particular job cost so that people don't have to ship her one of their own books just to get basic information about the cost of restoring a particular book. This backwardsass attitude that most of the restoration professionals in this hobby have toward information sharing is just baffling. It's got to be a function of how much comic book fans love drama.

 

I maintain my original stance (several posts up).

 

I do not understand "so that people don't have to ship her one of their own books just to get basic information about the cost of restoring a particular book." I am sure any restorer can give a broad estimate based on talking about the book and looking at scans. But until the book is in hand, the restorer is not going to have the criteria needed to give a more definitive cost or discuss options in greater detail than scans allow..

 

It is no one else's business how much someone paid for a particular resto. This is not "secrecy" - just no one's business. Some may feel differently and may freely say how much they paid. But it is an individual's decision and their right based on their own sense of privacy, not "secrecy".

 

I reiterate from my previous post here, if someone says it cost $350 to have a particular set of resto done, and another book with seemingly similar resto comes back at $250 or $500 (due to more/less time/processes required), there is going to be some kind of uproar.

 

Scott, I have to agree with Pov. Money spent is a personal thing and lack of disclosure should in no way imply there's a conspiracy or simply something to hide.

[comicwiz]

I have no problem expressing an opinion regarding Ms. Ciccone. I think the work she does is quite good, for her level of skill. For your benefit, I will be a little more blunt. I think the restoration world has passed her by and she should be thankful for every job she gets these days.

 

Look, I have no bone to pick with you, but if you've never met or had any work done by Susan, then I have to say this is the single worst characterization I've read about anyone, anywhere, ever!

I have had three books restored by Ms. Ciccone.

 

Based on your assessment of her, I'm assuming you've since started using Matt?

I stopped having books restored.

 

I'll admit that I'm not a fan of restoring books. But we are collectors of paper, plain and simple, and with it are aspects of paper conservation the become part of the territory.

 

I'm all for word of mouth behaviour when it is authentic and merit-based. And I don't want to seem like I'm harping on this point or singling you out (because there are certainly others who have done the same), but wouldn't some comparison of similar work performed by another person in the restoration/conservation camp be necessary to share an opinion like the one you have?

I've seen first hand examples of Ms. Ciccone's work and as I said earlier, I thought it was quite good for the type of work being performed. I have also seen examples of Matt's work and Kenny's. I know they are on the cutting edge of restoration and continue to push to envelope. It seems to me that Ms. Ciccone is content to be where she is currently in the restoration market and if that is the type of work one is needing performed, then she would certainly be among the choice service providers. If the work required something more challenging, then I would peruse other avenues.

 

I've read the same from Scott (FFB). And I think this is one of the positives to take away from the discussion - that this is important enough work that relative newcomers can take the discipline and push it to the edge.

 

Though from the point of view of further enlightenment on this topic, I also concede that these claims are only as valid as the subject and composition being carefully compared, matched-up and anlysed on a work-for-work and according to client spec basis.

 

I say this because I have multiple copies of the exact same books, and they are all in the exact same grade range or very close, and certain copies have better sheen, ink reflectivity, colour strike and registration. I could not imagine a fair comparison happening with these examples if we were to be base it on their production values, much less if they were worked on by different restorers in a test kitchen scenario.

[Guardian Comics]

Look...if one starts a thread like this, hoping for the masses to go ooh and aah, then what is the big deal about posting an approximate price. Nobody gives a flying leap if the price has a variable of a hundred bucks either way. To make your book look like it does now, is it a $50 process, a $500 process, a $2,000 process, or a 10k process? I think FF was looking for a ballpark number and didn't need it to include the cost of shipping both ways. Nor was it that personal a question. You don't want to answer it, that's fine but then don't bother starting the thread.

 

Jim

[faster friends]

Look...if one starts a thread like this, hoping for the masses to go ooh and aah, then what is the big deal about posting an approximate price. Nobody gives a flying leap if the price has a variable of a hundred bucks either way. To make your book look like it does now, is it a $50 process, a $500 process, a $2,000 process, or a 10k process? I think FF was looking for a ballpark number and didn't need it to include the cost of shipping both ways. Nor was it that personal a question. You don't want to answer it, that's fine but then don't bother starting the thread.

 

Jim

 

+1

[VintageComics]

Look...if one starts a thread like this, hoping for the masses to go ooh and aah, then what is the big deal about posting an approximate price. Nobody gives a flying leap if the price has a variable of a hundred bucks either way. To make your book look like it does now, is it a $50 process, a $500 process, a $2,000 process, or a 10k process? I think FF was looking for a ballpark number and didn't need it to include the cost of shipping both ways. Nor was it that personal a question. You don't want to answer it, that's fine but then don't bother starting the thread.

 

Jim

 

Isn't it amazing how anything can become a battle on the internet?

 

 

I don't think FFB is looking to restore a book and try to get a price. FFB is pretty knowledgeable about those things. I think his reaction was a little over the top considering nobody is obliged to reveal anything.

 

Maybe the guy doesn't want to reveal his price because there was more to the transaction than just money. Maybe he doesn't want to reveal his cost in the book because it might limit future resale value. Maybe he's eccentric. Really, who cares?

 

Wouldn't you say that this response is a little over the top if someone would politely rather not talk dollars and cents?

 

Every book is different, but I agree with those who do not see any big deal in just saying what the restoration cost. Jesus, all of this secrecy is like we're talking about the true identity of JFK's assassin or something. Lest Foom think he's doing Susan a favor by not saying what it cost, the truth is that it would probably drive business her way if she were a little more open about what each particular job cost so that people don't have to ship her one of their own books just to get basic information about the cost of restoring a particular book. This backwardsass attitude that most of the restoration professionals in this hobby have toward information sharing is just baffling. It's got to be a function of how much comic book fans love drama.

 

 

Who's the comic book fan that loves drama?

 

 

The most heated, venomous, longest running arguments on this forum have been about $. That's not a secret. From pressing, to potentialization, to flipping, to etc etc etc.

 

Show me one argument on here that has not been about the money and I'll show you ten that have been.

 

I think the post was simply about the before and after examples of how the comic looks.

 

Personally, I avoid talking personal money with anyone except my closest friends because only those people will extend the benefit of the doubt and not find some way to twist, extort or use what I say against me in some way.

 

The internet. It's not for sharing everything.

 

[comicwiz]

This thread is starting to remind me of the new jacket - especially at the 1 minute mark and thereafter:

 

[Transplant]

Look...if one starts a thread like this, hoping for the masses to go ooh and aah, then what is the big deal about posting an approximate price. Nobody gives a flying leap if the price has a variable of a hundred bucks either way. To make your book look like it does now, is it a $50 process, a $500 process, a $2,000 process, or a 10k process? I think FF was looking for a ballpark number and didn't need it to include the cost of shipping both ways. Nor was it that personal a question. You don't want to answer it, that's fine but then don't bother starting the thread.

 

Jim

 

Jim:

People post books, by themselves, here all the time. How much fun would it be if people started posting, "How much did you pay for that?" The OP wasn't a solicitation of business for Susan. He was just posting a book. The OP said he didn't want to discuss how much it cost to have done. It's not hiding the ball, he just doesn't want to say. I don't understand the fuss?

 

Buzz buzz

[VintageComics]

Look...if one starts a thread like this, hoping for the masses to go ooh and aah, then what is the big deal about posting an approximate price. Nobody gives a flying leap if the price has a variable of a hundred bucks either way. To make your book look like it does now, is it a $50 process, a $500 process, a $2,000 process, or a 10k process? I think FF was looking for a ballpark number and didn't need it to include the cost of shipping both ways. Nor was it that personal a question. You don't want to answer it, that's fine but then don't bother starting the thread.

 

Jim

 

Jim:

People post books, by themselves, here all the time. How much fun would it be if people started posting, "How much did you pay for that?" The OP wasn't a solicitation of business for Susan. He was just posting a book. The OP said he didn't want to discuss how much it cost to have done. It's not hiding the ball, he just doesn't want to say. I don't understand the fuss?

 

Buzz buzz

 

Dang, how do you do that?

 

How do you say every with 1/4 of the words that I use.

 

[Transplant]

Dang, how do you do that?

 

How do you say every with 1/4 of the words that I use.

 

I'm not a hippy conspiracy nutcase.

[VintageComics]

Dang, how do you do that?

 

How do you say every with 1/4 of the words that I use.

 

I'm not a hippy conspiracy nutcase.

 

My ex always said that every time I told a story I started from Moses and worked my way forward.

 

[Blind Owl]

Does EVERY thread on these Boards have to end up in a bitter feud!!!!!

 

I have nothing against anyone here (as far as I know....maybe the HIVE knows something I'm not aware of)...but if you have a disagreement with a fellow Board member could you please not air your dirty laundry here

 

...and instead if you must fight, use the PM process...and then go for the jugular if you want...nobody will then give a mess

 

Thank You in advance!!!!!

 

Oh yeah....by the way...the book looks Great!!!!!!! (thumbs u

[FFB]

Look...if one starts a thread like this, hoping for the masses to go ooh and aah, then what is the big deal about posting an approximate price. Nobody gives a flying leap if the price has a variable of a hundred bucks either way. To make your book look like it does now, is it a $50 process, a $500 process, a $2,000 process, or a 10k process? I think FF was looking for a ballpark number and didn't need it to include the cost of shipping both ways. Nor was it that personal a question. You don't want to answer it, that's fine but then don't bother starting the thread.

 

Jim

 

(thumbs u

[Ze-man]

Look...if one starts a thread like this, hoping for the masses to go ooh and aah, then what is the big deal about posting an approximate price. Nobody gives a flying leap if the price has a variable of a hundred bucks either way. To make your book look like it does now, is it a $50 process, a $500 process, a $2,000 process, or a 10k process? I think FF was looking for a ballpark number and didn't need it to include the cost of shipping both ways. Nor was it that personal a question. You don't want to answer it, that's fine but then don't bother starting the thread.

 

Jim

 

Jim:

People post books, by themselves, here all the time. How much fun would it be if people started posting, "How much did you pay for that?" The OP wasn't a solicitation of business for Susan. He was just posting a book. The OP said he didn't want to discuss how much it cost to have done. It's not hiding the ball, he just doesn't want to say. I don't understand the fuss?

 

Buzz buzz

 

I can appreciate Fantastic Fours(and others) interest regarding how much it cost Foom to have this particular book restored, as much as I can respect Fooms desire to not go into the details. People have always been interested in the cost effecftiveness of having books restored, then again people always like to keep cards close to their vest too.

 

That said, even though you cannot directly relate Fooms cost to restore a similar condition book because there are too many variables. You could use his basic cost as a gauge for what it takes to get a book like his restored to this condition. My guess is around $400-$600 But since we do not know what exactly was done,or how long it took all we can go by is what we see(through the Mylar anyways) and from what I see the book looks amazing. That was apparently Fooms main goal so I say it was money well spent.

 

I think much of the frustration Scott mentioned stems from longstanding stigma that already surround restoration in our Hobby. Here we have a guy with a book who wants to show off the results. Yet we only get see the book in a Mylar, and are not allowed to discuss what was done, or how much it cost.

 

And yes I am ribbing ya Foom.

 

Ya don't show off your new car by keeping it under the car cover! Take that puppy out, let's see the book. I for one am very interested in seeing it at all angles possible. It isn't going to look perfect, resto never does. Covers shrink, CT stands out, interior covers show tear seals..etc..etc.. But showing the book as it is can only help people better understand what even good resto looks like under a bad light.

 

Now..aren't you glad you shared your book with the class! We are such an ungrateful lot.

 

 

 

 

[GACollectibles]

 

The internet. It's not for sharing everything.

 

 

Dude, this place is like your personal Facebook, is there nothing you haven't shared here?

 

 

 

Oh wait, the reason for a certain NY incarceration comes to mind....

[joeypost]

 

The internet. It's not for sharing everything.

 

 

Dude, this place is like your personal Facebook, is there nothing you haven't shared here?

 

 

 

Oh wait, the reason for a certain NY incarceration comes to mind....

 

I have an Uncle on the NYPD. I'll see if he can dig up some dirt

[FFB]

Look...if one starts a thread like this, hoping for the masses to go ooh and aah, then what is the big deal about posting an approximate price. Nobody gives a flying leap if the price has a variable of a hundred bucks either way. To make your book look like it does now, is it a $50 process, a $500 process, a $2,000 process, or a 10k process? I think FF was looking for a ballpark number and didn't need it to include the cost of shipping both ways. Nor was it that personal a question. You don't want to answer it, that's fine but then don't bother starting the thread.

 

Jim

 

Jim:

People post books, by themselves, here all the time. How much fun would it be if people started posting, "How much did you pay for that?" The OP wasn't a solicitation of business for Susan. He was just posting a book. The OP said he didn't want to discuss how much it cost to have done. It's not hiding the ball, he just doesn't want to say. I don't understand the fuss?

 

Buzz buzz

 

I can appreciate Fantastic Fours(and others) interest regarding how much it cost Foom to have this particular book restored, as much as I can respect Fooms desire to not go into the details. People have always been interested in the cost effecftiveness of having books restored, then again people always like to keep cards close to their vest too.

 

That said, even though you cannot directly relate Fooms cost to restore a similar condition book because there are too many variables. You could use his basic cost as a gauge for what it takes to get a book like his restored to this condition. My guess is around $400-$600 But since we do not know what exactly was done,or how long it took all we can go by is what we see(through the Mylar anyways) and from what I see the book looks amazing. That was apparently Fooms main goal so I say it was money well spent.

 

I think much of the frustration Scott mentioned stems from longstanding stigma that already surround restoration in our Hobby. Here we have a guy with a book who wants to show off the results. Yet we only get see the book in a Mylar, and are not allowed to discuss what was done, or how much it cost.

 

And yes I am ribbing ya Foom.

 

Ya don't show off your new car by keeping it under the car cover! Take that puppy out, let's see the book. I for one am very interested in seeing it at all angles possible. It isn't going to look perfect, resto never does. Covers shrink, CT stands out, interior covers show tear seals..etc..etc.. But showing the book as it is can only help people better understand what even good resto looks like under a bad light.

 

Now..aren't you glad you shared your book with the class! We are such an ungrateful lot.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. My guess for the cost of the work is in the $500 range too.

[MrBedrock]

A beautiful book and a beautiful job.

Proof positive that Susan can color match and press with the best of them.

Congrats (thumbs u

Subtle like sledgehammer.

 

Why don't you come out and actually say something you silly little girl-man gossip monger? Have the stones to actually defame the woman instead of hiding behind childish insinuations.

 

Or should you simply be addressed as the Queen Bee?

 

:busy:

This may be a day late but I'll come out and say again exactly what I said in my first post....

Susan did a wonderful job. She did an incredible job of matching the colors.

She pressed the book flat and smooth. She improved the look of that book 1000% and I would imagine that is exactly what FoomMember wanted when he hired her.

 

Any insinuations are purely yours Zipper.