A Guaranteed Pre-Grade of 9.8?

[DDinSC-migration]

I am curious about something and I can't seem to find a "thread" that pertains to it specifically so I will ask here... I see books quite often that have already been graded and then re-sumitted (signed) to receive the Signature Series label which it does but the grade drops (usually by a full grade) I have seen two examples this week; a JIM #83 went from a 6.0 to a 5.0 and a Daredevil that went from a 7.0 to a 6.0 (both pictures were provided and each book had unique marks so there was no question that they were the same book - both are currently on comiclink)

 

IN my opinion I have always thought that a book should at the very least receive the same grade it was before obtaining a highly sought after signature if it is send in to one of the CGC "authorized witness " companies such as Desert Wind. I am certain this is why so many high grades do not get signatures because its a "-shoot" when you get a book re-graded and as we all well know, the owner is usually on the losing end.

 

I recently purchased an Iron Man vs Whiplash #1 Signature Series CGC 9.8(Celebrity Authentics is selling 100 of these.) They are graded a 9.8 but Mickey Roarke has not signed them yet. I emailed to ask about this and was informed that only 100 issues will be sold and that they have already been graded by CGC and have received a 9.8 grade but they are currently waiting on Mickey Roarke to sign them BUT not to worry because I was guaranteed to receive the 9.8 graded book that I purchased after Mickey Roarke signs it.

 

My question is this; how can this company be pre-selling a guaranteed 9.8 grade on the 100 issues that have been already graded but not signed and therefore must be re-graded? I'm fairly certain that Mr. Roarke isn't going to keep signing until 100 9.8 grades have been achieved. Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

[buttock]

Step 1 - crack book out

Step 2 - get book signed

Step 3 - enjoy book

 

Note the lack of CGC approval

[DDinSC-migration]

Wow, that clears that up. err,,, thanks.

[Sal]

it's Mickey Rourke, by the way.

 

no clue on your other question. i would assume it to be a "Celebrity Authentics" problem and not a "DDinSC" one

[mschmidt]

I am curious about something and I can't seem to find a "thread" that pertains to it specifically so I will ask here... I see books quite often that have already been graded and then re-sumitted (signed) to receive the Signature Series label which it does but the grade drops (usually by a full grade) I have seen two examples this week; a JIM #83 went from a 6.0 to a 5.0 and a Daredevil that went from a 7.0 to a 6.0 (both pictures were provided and each book had unique marks so there was no question that they were the same book - both are currently on comiclink)

 

IN my opinion I have always thought that a book should at the very least receive the same grade it was before obtaining a highly sought after signature if it is send in to one of the CGC "authorized witness " companies such as Desert Wind. I am certain this is why so many high grades do not get signatures because its a "-shoot" when you get a book re-graded and as we all well know, the owner is usually on the losing end.

 

I recently purchased an Iron Man vs Whiplash #1 Signature Series CGC 9.8(Celebrity Authentics is selling 100 of these.) They are graded a 9.8 but Mickey Roarke has not signed them yet. I emailed to ask about this and was informed that only 100 issues will be sold and that they have already been graded by CGC and have received a 9.8 grade but they are currently waiting on Mickey Roarke to sign them BUT not to worry because I was guaranteed to receive the 9.8 graded book that I purchased after Mickey Roarke signs it.

 

My question is this; how can this company be pre-selling a guaranteed 9.8 grade on the 100 issues that have been already graded but not signed and therefore must be re-graded? I'm fairly certain that Mr. Roarke isn't going to keep signing until 100 9.8 grades have been achieved. Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

I get what you're trying to say, but you're operating under faulty assumptions here.

 

Cracking a book out of its CGC slab invalidates the grade. Period. It doesn't matter whether the crackin' is done by you or me, a CGC authorized witness, or Moses himself, once that book has left its sweet, plastic-y container, there is no guarantee if it's re-slabbed it will come back the same grade.

 

Which, when you think about it, makes perfect sense. Once the book is back in the wild, all manners of unfortunate incidents can befall it - and it wouldn't be fair if CGC didn't re-grade the book as if they'd never seen it before.

 

That doesn't mean, though, that CGC SS witnesses don't go to great lengths to ensure that the grade stays the same - they are fully aware of what's at stake here, and all the witnesses I've submitted books to have treated my books with kid gloves. I've personally gotten about 75 books SS'ed over the years, and I've only ever had one book drop a grade whereas three books have gotten a grade bump.

 

In regards to the Celebrity Authentics stuff, it's no different than CGC witnesses who pre-sell SS books here on the boards - what they do is pre-sell Y amount of books, pre-screen X amount of books for 9.8 with CGC, get the books signed, and have the books re-graded as normal. Where X is larger than Y, in case some of the books drop a grade during the signing process.

[DDinSC-migration]

To Sal; No it's not A PROBLEM. I STATED in the FIRST sentence of my post that I was CURIOUS how they accomplish this and you would KNOW this if you were actually interested in answering the question instead of seeing this as another opportunity to sound witty and intelligent or is being a smart azz simply your method of getting excited enough to run into the bathroom to masterbate. (Probably the latter) and by the way, Yes.. I mis-spelled Rourke and I acknowledge that but everyone knew exactly to whom I was referring. In regards to your so-called "answer", it was as clear as black obsidian (which is no surprise)

 

You know... Its truly amazing how many times I see people ask questions on these forums and most of what they get in responses is idiotic smart-azz remarks. I guess its just a lot of people out there that get their jollies being di * cks and Sal is one of many.

 

And then there are people like mschmidt who these forums are made for... people who are nice, professional and provide a meaningful answer to a simple question without trying to belittle the person that asked the question or made a statement in an attempt to learn... and I as a novice collector of CGC books, I really appreciate it and thank you on behalf of all newbies.

[szelim]

They'll probably ask Rourke to sign well over 100 9.8-quality books for grading via the CGC SS, enough to guarantee at least 100 do come back graded at 9.8. Assuming of course, Rourke doesn't do something "weird" with all the books he touches.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

To Sal; No it's not A PROBLEM. I STATED in the FIRST sentence of my post that I was CURIOUS how they accomplish this and you would KNOW this if you were actually interested in answering the question instead of seeing this as another opportunity to sound witty and intelligent or is being a smart azz simply your method of getting excited enough to run into the bathroom to masterbate. (Probably the latter) and by the way, Yes.. I mis-spelled Rourke and I acknowledge that but everyone knew exactly to whom I was referring. In regards to your so-called "answer", it was as clear as black obsidian (which is no surprise)

 

You know... Its truly amazing how many times I see people ask questions on these forums and most of what they get in responses is idiotic smart-azz remarks. I guess its just a lot of people out there that get their jollies being di * cks and Sal is one of many.

 

And then there are people like mschmidt who these forums are made for... people who are nice, professional and provide a meaningful answer to a simple question without trying to belittle the person that asked the question or made a statement in an attempt to learn... and I as a novice collector of CGC books, I really appreciate it and thank you on behalf of all newbies.

 

I agree with you that there are a lot of nasty replies in this forum, but to be honest I did not think Sal's response was bad ?

[Turtle]

As an SS witness, I can tell you that a careful witness will maintain grade on average over 90% of the time. I'd say the majority of the remaining 10% is split between a creator being a little rough with the book (some will flip through the book before signing) and the subjectivity of grading. As a personal track record, the number of grade bumps I've had edges out the number of grade drops I've had.

 

As for the books to which you're referring, any number of things could have happened. I've been a witness at 1 Stan Lee signing. At some of these signings, it's a very relaxed atmosphere. Stan will chat with the fans and ask them for signature color and placement. Others are much more chaotic and Stan won't look up. He'll just sign whatever is hastily put in front of him. Not all SS books are "handled" by witnesses. What I mean by that is while an authorized CGC witness is present, a lot of fans would prefer to approach the creator themselves. Many people unfamiliar with signature series methods are also unfamiliar with windowbags, which go a long way in protecting a book during a signing. It's possible the seller of the SA keys that got the grade drops bought tickets to get a bunch of books signed and didn't have any protection on them. He handed them to Stan or his handler, which could have caused a bit of damage anyway. If you'll look at the JIM 83, you'll notice a chip out of the CAA box at the top that wasn't missing in the blue label. I'm sure if you had the SS book in-hand and compared it to a high-res scan, you'd see plenty of these differences that would cause the grade drop.

 

As for your question, Celebrity Authentics partnering with CGC is a relatively new thing, so the ins and outs aren't known to many just yet. However, my guess would be that it would happen exactly the way the others have said it.

 

I hope this answers your questions. Stick around these boards. Some people aren't always friendly, but I've found if you ask in a polite manner, you can get just about any question answered relatively quickly.

 

WTTB!

[divad]

They'll probably ask Rourke to sign well over 100 9.8-quality books for grading via the CGC SS, enough to guarantee at least 100 do come back graded at 9.8. Assuming of course, Rourke doesn't do something "weird" with all the books he touches.

 

He'll probably drool on them . . . and seriously (help me out here) why is Mickey Rourke signing a comic book?

[divad]

And then there are people like mschmidt who these forums are made for... people who are nice, professional and provide a meaningful answer to a simple question without trying to belittle the person that asked the question or made a statement in an attempt to learn... and I as a novice collector of CGC books, I really appreciate it and thank you on behalf of all newbies.

 

Are we talking about the same guy???

[Turtle]

They'll probably ask Rourke to sign well over 100 9.8-quality books for grading via the CGC SS, enough to guarantee at least 100 do come back graded at 9.8. Assuming of course, Rourke doesn't do something "weird" with all the books he touches.

 

He'll probably drool on them . . . and seriously (help me out here) why is Mickey Rourke signing a comic book?

 

He'll be playing the villain "Whiplash" in the Iron Man 2 movie. The book looks to be either a movie adaptation or a reprint with a movie-style cover. Seems appropriate to me.

[divad]

They'll probably ask Rourke to sign well over 100 9.8-quality books for grading via the CGC SS, enough to guarantee at least 100 do come back graded at 9.8. Assuming of course, Rourke doesn't do something "weird" with all the books he touches.

 

He'll probably drool on them . . . and seriously (help me out here) why is Mickey Rourke signing a comic book?

 

He'll be playing the villain "Whiplash" in the Iron Man 2 movie. The book looks to be either a movie adaptation or a reprint with a movie-style cover. Seems appropriate to me.

 

Yeah, if you're 12 . . .

 

[LovinTheSurfer]

To Sal; No it's not A PROBLEM. I STATED in the FIRST sentence of my post that I was CURIOUS how they accomplish this and you would KNOW this if you were actually interested in answering the question instead of seeing this as another opportunity to sound witty and intelligent or is being a smart azz simply your method of getting excited enough to run into the bathroom to masterbate. (Probably the latter) and by the way, Yes.. I mis-spelled Rourke and I acknowledge that but everyone knew exactly to whom I was referring. In regards to your so-called "answer", it was as clear as black obsidian (which is no surprise)

 

You know... Its truly amazing how many times I see people ask questions on these forums and most of what they get in responses is idiotic smart-azz remarks. I guess its just a lot of people out there that get their jollies being di * cks and Sal is one of many.

 

And then there are people like mschmidt who these forums are made for... people who are nice, professional and provide a meaningful answer to a simple question without trying to belittle the person that asked the question or made a statement in an attempt to learn... and I as a novice collector of CGC books, I really appreciate it and thank you on behalf of all newbies.

 

I agree with you that there are a lot of nasty replies in this forum, but to be honest I did not think Sal's response was bad ?

 

I completely agree....noobies freaking out because they can't take the humor in this place...

[Flaming_Telepath]

To Sal; No it's not A PROBLEM. I STATED in the FIRST sentence of my post that I was CURIOUS how they accomplish this and you would KNOW this if you were actually interested in answering the question instead of seeing this as another opportunity to sound witty and intelligent or is being a smart azz simply your method of getting excited enough to run into the bathroom to masterbate. (Probably the latter) and by the way, Yes.. I mis-spelled Rourke and I acknowledge that but everyone knew exactly to whom I was referring. In regards to your so-called "answer", it was as clear as black obsidian (which is no surprise)

 

You know... Its truly amazing how many times I see people ask questions on these forums and most of what they get in responses is idiotic smart-azz remarks. I guess its just a lot of people out there that get their jollies being di * cks and Sal is one of many.

 

And then there are people like mschmidt who these forums are made for... people who are nice, professional and provide a meaningful answer to a simple question without trying to belittle the person that asked the question or made a statement in an attempt to learn... and I as a novice collector of CGC books, I really appreciate it and thank you on behalf of all newbies.

 

If you're going to get offended by Sal's rather innocuous comments, I'm not sure you'll last long around here.

[LovinTheSurfer]

I agree

[BeachBum]

They'll probably ask Rourke to sign well over 100 9.8-quality books for grading via the CGC SS, enough to guarantee at least 100 do come back graded at 9.8. Assuming of course, Rourke doesn't do something "weird" with all the books he touches.

 

He'll probably drool on them . . . and seriously (help me out here) why is Mickey Rourke signing a comic book?

 

He'll be playing the villain "Whiplash" in the Iron Man 2 movie. The book looks to be either a movie adaptation or a reprint with a movie-style cover. Seems appropriate to me.

 

Yeah, if you're 12 . . .

 

 

Mickey is actually a pretty nice guy.