Using Ebay "Feedback Left For Others" to Increase Your Profile and Sales

[14 of spades]

I'd neg your Grandmother . . .

 

Given that I've only ever given one neg ever, I probably wouldn't neg yours.

 

That'd be tough as they both passed away ages ago . . .

 

Using that logic, it would be difficult for you to neg my Grandmothers as well.

[14 of spades]

Actually, I brought this issue up to make a point.

 

Why the slavish subservience to the whims of private corporations?

 

An analogous example, would be the of the "Impact Factor" in scientific journals.

 

Impact Factor

 

The IF is a means of ranking "prestige" of journals. There are means within a journal editor's control that allows him to manipulate his journal's IF (e.g. publish more letters/reviews, publish less case reports). The IF is probably the single most important number in academia - it has been consumed by this number. Hires, promotions, grants, funding, are frequently all based on IF. As such, manipulation of IF is seen as "dishonest" within the academic community.

 

The thing is, in recent years, some scholars have started to wonder whether IF manipulation is even "wrong"? Why? Because IF is a proprietary value. It is a number created and assigned by a private corporation that answers only to its Board of Directors. If a journal editor changes his journal's content, and by doing so, the IF (and therefore prestige) increases, is what he is doing wrong? It's not his fault (or in his control) that this private entity has deemed his journal now "more prestigious" by its method of assessment.

 

I consider this analogous to how one controls one's Ebay profile. My profile exists and is owned by Ebay, which is a private corporation (not a governmental entity with any level of accountability). If there is a problem with my profile, it is up to Ebay to solve.

[14 of spades]

Whatever blows your skirt up . . . but it's obviously had no impact on your sales or your profile

 

True. I obviously took it as far as I could.

 

But done in moderation, it might help certain individuals and their sales.

 

About 4 years had passed since I had done anything on Ebay. I was just trying to have fun with it.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

As predicted, everyone rolled out their soapboxes.

 

Let's put some things in perspective.

 

This was a quasi "experiment" I did on my last range of Ebay sales. I admit the full extent of what I did. I manned-up and I have not tried to misrepresent what I did.

 

Do I concede the feedbacks left failed to properly represent the sales that took place. Yes.

 

Do I think what I did was right? Not necessarily.

 

Do I think what I did was wrong? No.

 

Ebay is a private company (not a governmental organization, nor any type of entity with some type of legal authority) and my profile exists because users who access its website are automatically given a profile that develops as they continue to use the site.

 

The feedback system Ebay developed has evolved in a way that has led to the existence of some profiles being "better" than others. I made my profile other than what it "should" (by convention) be. Within the context of how profiles are viewed on Ebay, my unorthodox behavior makes my profile "better" than what it would otherwise be. And therefore, what?

 

Keep in mind that the reputation of my profile has absolutely no accountability, and is accountable to no one. Not me, not Ebay, no one. It is not like, say, a university transcript where a university must make the grades it issues defensible, nor like a driver's license, that implies a minimum ability to drive.

 

My profile is simply a fabrication that exists in the realm of a private corporation.

 

What is, and what is the source of the onus and responsibility people feel towards this private entity?

 

If the private corporation has an issue with the way you manipulate a part of the site that they give you control over, then they will take action as they see fit. They have not taken any action against me.

 

 

Actually, I brought this issue up to make a point.

 

Why the slavish subservience to the whims of private corporations?

 

An analogous example, would be the of the "Impact Factor" in scientific journals.

 

Impact Factor

 

The IF is a means of ranking "prestige" of journals. There are means within a journal editor's control that allows him to manipulate his journal's IF (e.g. publish more letters/reviews, publish less case reports). The IF is probably the single most important number in academia - it has been consumed by this number. Hires, promotions, grants, funding, are frequently all based on IF. As such, manipulation of IF is seen as "dishonest" within the academic community.

 

The thing is, in recent years, some scholars have started to wonder whether IF manipulation is even "wrong"? Why? Because IF is a proprietary value. It is a number created and assigned by a private corporation that answers only to its Board of Directors. If a journal editor changes his journal's content, and by doing so, the IF (and therefore prestige) increases, is what he is doing wrong? It's not his fault (or in his control) that this private entity has deemed his journal now "more prestigious" by its method of assessment.

 

I consider this analogous to how one controls one's Ebay profile. My profile exists and is owned by Ebay, which is a private corporation (not a governmental entity with any level of accountability). If there is a problem with my profile, it is up to Ebay to solve.

 

This is nothing more than verbal masturbation. Please don't suddenly attempt to wrap this up in some high concept philosophical argument.

 

Rather like many issues discussed around here, just because something isn't illegal, just because something is allowed, doesn't mean it's right or proper.

 

In the words of a wiser man than I...when you get to the bottom of the hole, put the ing shovel away!

[Boozad]

This thread is a complete load of bollocks.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

This thread is a complete load of bollocks.

 

Yes.

[Makmorn]

[G.A.tor]

according to ebay, this is what the feedback system should be used for... given that they state this is the objective of feedback, I would infer that you (14 spades) have not only thought outside the box, but violated ebay's written intent (whether they choose to enforce it or not)

just my opinion

 

"Whenever you buy or sell something, we ask that you leave Feedback about the transaction that reflects your experience with the buyer or seller. At the same time, we ask your trading partner to leave Feedback about you as well."

[14 of spades]

This is nothing more than verbal masturbation. Please don't suddenly attempt to wrap this up in some high concept philosophical argument.

 

Rather like many issues discussed around here, just because something isn't illegal, just because something is allowed, doesn't mean it's right or proper.

 

In the words of a wiser man than I...when you get to the bottom of the hole, put the ing shovel away!

 

So Mr. Telepath, what are your thoughts on abuse of the impact factor?

[14 of spades]

according to ebay, this is what the feedback system should be used for... given that they state this is the objective of feedback, I would infer that you (14 spades) have not only thought outside the box, but violated ebay's written intent (whether they choose to enforce it or not)

just my opinion

 

"Whenever you buy or sell something, we ask that you leave Feedback about the transaction that reflects your experience with the buyer or seller. At the same time, we ask your trading partner to leave Feedback about you as well."

 

You are probably right.

 

Ebay has the right and ability to discipline me for my transgressions.

[14 of spades]

Mountain out of a molehill.

[G.A.tor]

according to ebay, this is what the feedback system should be used for... given that they state this is the objective of feedback, I would infer that you (14 spades) have not only thought outside the box, but violated ebay's written intent (whether they choose to enforce it or not)

just my opinion

 

"Whenever you buy or sell something, we ask that you leave Feedback about the transaction that reflects your experience with the buyer or seller. At the same time, we ask your trading partner to leave Feedback about you as well."

 

You are probably right.

 

Ebay has the right and ability to discipline me for my transgressions.

I think we have seen, via many examples, that ebay doesn't enforce (for the most part) their feedback policy... i.e., your test is a perfect example... I would contend that , as many in this thread have confirmed, most folks really view ebay feedback system as more of a "joke" these days, and I suspect that it won't "hurt" your profile, but I would seriously question if it is assisting you in any way

 

again, I don't know, and quite honestly, don't care, just happened to stumble on the thread, and found it somewhat interesting (thumbs u

[ashrael]

14_of_spades, what was your intent with sharing your eBay methods with us? Did you expect us to praise you for your cunning? Did you think you would get a pat on the back for a great idea? How could you expect anything different than what is being said now?

[14 of spades]

I think we have seen, via many examples, that ebay doesn't enforce (for the most part) their feedback policy... i.e., your test is a perfect example... I would contend that , as many in this thread have confirmed, most folks really view ebay feedback system as more of a "joke" these days, and I suspect that it won't "hurt" your profile, but I would seriously question if it is assisting you in any way

 

Well - I don't use Ebay much. I had a batch of old books to sell in September - once I sold them off, I decided to get creative with the feedbacks.

 

I don't really have anything left to sell, and I hardly ever buy anything.

 

again, I don't know, and quite honestly, don't care, just happened to stumble on the thread, and found it somewhat interesting (thumbs u

 

That's all I was hoping for (thumbs u

[14 of spades]

14_of_spades, what was your intent with sharing your eBay methods with us? Did you expect us to praise you for your cunning? Did you think you would get a pat on the back for a great idea? How could you expect anything different than what is being said now?

 

I just wanted people to discuss it.

 

Look at the first sentence in my first post.

 

I didn't think people would think too highly of it - but the acrimony in this thread is really going too far.

 

What - do people think I should be deemed a criminal?

 

Fine I'll admit it - I eat babies.

[Flaming_Telepath]

14_of_spades, what was your intent with sharing your eBay methods with us? Did you expect us to praise you for your cunning? Did you think you would get a pat on the back for a great idea? How could you expect anything different than what is being said now?

 

I just wanted people to discuss it.

 

Look at the first sentence in my first post.

 

I didn't think people would think too highly of it - but the acrimony in this thread is really going too far.

 

What - do people think I should be deemed a criminal?

 

Fine I'll admit it - I eat babies.

 

OK, I'll back off.

 

Whilst it's not criminal, it's apparently a violation of eBay rules and poor form to boot.

 

Having said that, I'll concede that it falls into the 'dumb idea' category rather than the 'let's screw the punters' one. It's on a level with keyword spamming...and its intent is pretty much the same...which you will know, having been around these parts for some time, gets right on everybody's tits.

[Makmorn]

No, you are not a criminal, and what you are doing is legal. Despite the graphics, I really don't care, you just made yourself an easy target.

 

The main problem is you could be giving someone with less than honest motives an idea, which could lead to someone being ripped off, not by you, but because of your example.

 

 

[Snake Eyes]

As predicted, everyone rolled out their soapboxes.

 

Let's put some things in perspective.

 

This was a quasi "experiment" I did on my last range of Ebay sales. I admit the full extent of what I did. I manned-up and I have not tried to misrepresent what I did.

 

Do I concede the feedbacks left failed to properly represent the sales that took place. Yes.

 

Do I think what I did was right? Not necessarily.

 

Do I think what I did was wrong? No.

 

Ebay is a private company (not a governmental organization, nor any type of entity with some type of legal authority) and my profile exists because users who access its website are automatically given a profile that develops as they continue to use the site.

 

The feedback system Ebay developed has evolved in a way that has led to the existence of some profiles being "better" than others. I made my profile other than what it "should" (by convention) be. Within the context of how profiles are viewed on Ebay, my unorthodox behavior makes my profile "better" than what it would otherwise be. And therefore, what?

 

Keep in mind that the reputation of my profile has absolutely no accountability, and is accountable to no one. Not me, not Ebay, no one. It is not like, say, a university transcript where a university must make the grades it issues defensible, nor like a driver's license, that implies a minimum ability to drive.

 

My profile is simply a fabrication that exists in the realm of a private corporation.

 

What is, and what is the source of the onus and responsibility people feel towards this private entity?

 

If the private corporation has an issue with the way you manipulate a part of the site that they give you control over, then they will take action as they see fit. They have not taken any action against me.

 

I think FT comparing this to keyword spamming is right on the mark. It does not make you a bad person or a felon, but it certainly makes for an annoying seller in my opinion. As such, I would not do business with someone who left such feedback (and I would report feedback left for me that was deceptive with Ebay itself).

 

I quoted the above post for your comment about feeling an onus/obligation to Ebay. Here is the largest difficulty I have with your linking someone's displeasure with their motives. As mentioned, I would be put out and I would report the behavior. This has nothing to do with my feeling a responsibility towards Ebay. Instead, it is a means of protecting myself and to a lesser extent others.

 

Specifically, feedback like that could make me a target for increased phishing and account hijacking attacks. It would certainly appear that I am flush with cash and resources, when that is not the case. It would mislead others I am attempting to buy from as well. If I put in an offer of $7 for a $10 book and someone sees a comment that I have bought a $10,000 painting or a new Lexus (when I have not), that certainly does not help my negotiating position. Finally, if I wanted to advertise for someone else, I would require them to pay me for the service (in essence you are making use of MY profile to further your ends...pretty intrusive I think).

 

I am glad that I found the boards, because Ebay has become less and less of a community. Nonetheless, I still feel nostalgia for the old days and act (if I can) to protect other buyers (reporting fraudulent auctions and the like). This leaves me with my final complaint. You are creating an image with no substance. You are taking advantage of my community and fellow hobbyists by trying to manipulate your price point higher. Quite frankly (in my opinion only), you deserve lesser money for your items, because you are not a large dealer or frequent seller. The reason those accounts get higher bids is because there is a known security factor that you do not have (and are trying to fabricate through incorrect feedback). Therefore, I would report this in order to protect other buyers. To me it would seem like an attempt to take advantage of their naivety and I would feel obligated to act.

 

So there it is. You asked for discussion and I wound up getting a little caught up in my one man rant there Back to work for me...reports to write and papers to shuffle don't ya know?

 

SE

[14 of spades]

I think FT comparing this to keyword spamming is right on the mark. It does not make you a bad person or a felon, but it certainly makes for an annoying seller in my opinion. As such, I would not do business with someone who left such feedback (and I would report feedback left for me that was deceptive with Ebay itself).

 

I quoted the above post for your comment about feeling an onus/obligation to Ebay. Here is the largest difficulty I have with your linking someone's displeasure with their motives. As mentioned, I would be put out and I would report the behavior. This has nothing to do with my feeling a responsibility towards Ebay. Instead, it is a means of protecting myself and to a lesser extent others.

 

Specifically, feedback like that could make me a target for increased phishing and account hijacking attacks. It would certainly appear that I am flush with cash and resources, when that is not the case. It would mislead others I am attempting to buy from as well. If I put in an offer of $7 for a $10 book and someone sees a comment that I have bought a $10,000 painting or a new Lexus (when I have not), that certainly does not help my negotiating position. Finally, if I wanted to advertise for someone else, I would require them to pay me for the service (in essence you are making use of MY profile to further your ends...pretty intrusive I think).

 

I am glad that I found the boards, because Ebay has become less and less of a community. Nonetheless, I still feel nostalgia for the old days and act (if I can) to protect other buyers (reporting fraudulent auctions and the like). This leaves me with my final complaint. You are creating an image with no substance. You are taking advantage of my community and fellow hobbyists by trying to manipulate your price point higher. Quite frankly (in my opinion only), you deserve lesser money for your items, because you are not a large dealer or frequent seller. The reason those accounts get higher bids is because there is a known security factor that you do not have (and are trying to fabricate through incorrect feedback). Therefore, I would report this in order to protect other buyers. To me it would seem like an attempt to take advantage of their naivety and I would feel obligated to act.

 

So there it is. You asked for discussion and I wound up getting a little caught up in my one man rant there Back to work for me...reports to write and papers to shuffle don't ya know?

 

SE

 

OK. Fair enough. Your point is taken.

 

I can sympathize with the false "security factor" you refer to. That said, I would only up my profile if I felt I could deliver quality goods. And I believe that I do.

 

 

[Snake Eyes]

But by doing this are you not taking that decision from the buyer? Isn't it my prerogative to decide whom I am comfortable doing business with. I spend my time to try to do my homework before I buy. Through your exercise you are taking your belief that you can deliver quality goods (which may very well be the case) and imposing it upon me. Should I not be able to look at the history of various sellers and make that decision for myself?

 

If you boil it down, it seems that someone doing this is simply taking a short-cut. Trying to get the benefits of being a long-standing seller or trustworthy individual without putting in the effort/earning that perception. I worked to earn the money I am about to spend...should not the seller have to work to earn a greater proportion of it (instead of using a more smoke and mirrors approach?) To me it is manipulative of the buyer pool (which I admittedly identify much more strongly with than the sellers). Could just be a personal quirk, but nothing raises my hackles quite like the feeling that someone is trying to manipulate or take advantage of me...does that make sense

 

Anyway, interesting debate...that is for sure

 

SE