Neal Adams needs Superman vs Muhammad Ali artwork!

[Ferran Delgado]

Hi all,

 

According Neal Adams's daughter, Kris, they need to locate the owner of the last DPS of the book Superman vs Muhammad Ali, because they lost the negatives of the Superman part.

 

The DPS was owned in the past by David Safier, and it was seen at a booth at NYCC in 2008.

 

This is the entry where Kris ask for it:

Kris World.

 

And this is the original needed:

 

[artdealer]

Jeez, I sold that spread for Giordano back in 1979-80.

I resold it back in 1992, don't know where it is now.

Mitch I.

[cheekyj2112]

I have some recollection of seeing one of the DPS's at Anthony's booth at SD but I can't quite recall if it was this particular one. A friend has/had a DPS which just might be the same one, I'll have to ask him.

 

 

 

 

[Kevin76]

Ya right,"we lost the negitives" A.K.A We want our artwork back period!

[artdealer]

Well, considering that DC published the book, Neal might not have the negs.

He doesn't want the art back, just a copy.

[stinkininkin]

Ya right,"we lost the negitives" A.K.A We want our artwork back period!

 

My understanding is that Neal and his family no longer seek the return of artwork, even if they believe it to have once been stolen. I believe they have come the conclusion that that ship has sailed. Wasn't true 10-15 years ago, but I believe that is their position now.

 

Can anyone confirm this?

 

Scott Williams

[CollectingFool]

My understanding is that Neal and his family no longer seek the return of artwork, even if they believe it to have once been stolen. I believe they have come the conclusion that that ship has sailed. Wasn't true 10-15 years ago, but I believe that is their position now.

Can anyone confirm this?

 

I remember when he made that decision. He didn't give it up completely, there are some items on a list filed in a police report which he said were stolen right from his studio. Last I heard those he's still pursuing. Everything else he understands is far removed from the people who he believes are responsible AND as mentioned here before, some of the stuff he sold through dealers and just forgot.

 

 

[stinkininkin]

My understanding is that Neal and his family no longer seek the return of artwork, even if they believe it to have once been stolen. I believe they have come the conclusion that that ship has sailed. Wasn't true 10-15 years ago, but I believe that is their position now.

Can anyone confirm this?

 

I remember when he made that decision. He didn't give it up completely, there are some items on a list filed in a police report which he said were stolen right from his studio. Last I heard those he's still pursuing. Everything else he understands is far removed from the people who he believes are responsible AND as mentioned here before, some of the stuff he sold through dealers and just forgot.

 

 

Hey Ruben, do you know when the items in question were stolen and which pieces they were? As a collector of his work, I would be more than just a little curious.

 

PM me if you prefer.

 

Scott Williams

[WYLDCHYLD]

I thought either Anthony Snyder or Albert Moy had this on display in the last year or two...I know I saw it recently at a dealer's booth...

[Ferran Delgado]

Ya right,"we lost the negitives" A.K.A We want our artwork back period!

 

It's not the case here, since they only need the half with Superman and Mitch confirmed that it was sold legit.

[Ferran Delgado]

Hey Ruben, do you know when the items in question were stolen and which pieces they were? As a collector of his work, I would be more than just a little curious.

 

PM me if you prefer.

 

Scott Williams

 

Scott,

 

This is the post that Mitch wrote in Comicart-L about Superman vs Muhammad Ali and Neal's artwork stolen: (I hope that Mitch doesn't mind about me posting this. If so, I'll remove it at once)

 

After talking to Neal over the years about his art, he decided in

1979 to keep his art for his family. I remember DC found the complete

stories for the 2nd Drug issue and the last Batman story with the

Werewolf. Giordano received his share of both stories, which just

happened to be the back of each. I was Giordano's art agent at the

time and he gave me the art to sell as well as his share of the

Superman/Muhammed Ali job. Neal approached me at the 1979 Creation

Con in NYC and asked if there was anyway he could get that art back.

So we traded some cover he had, as well as the Green Lantern backup

in the Flash were GL eats a bad mushroom.

That's why you don't see many Superman/Muhammed Ali pages, except for

some pages the background inkers received. I sold only 3-4 pages for

Giordano before I traded them to Neal.

Of course all the X-Men and Avengers art Neal did is all stolen.

 

This is an article about the stolen artwork at DC posted in Neal's site:

SUPERHEIST. The Great Comic Book Rip-Off by Joe Brancatelli.

 

If are you interested more on this epic comic, don't miss this interview with Neal published in Comic Book Artist:

Neal Adams and Superman vs Muhammad ali.

 

I also want to take advantage of this thread and the presence of Scott Williams here to congratulate him for the terrific job he's doing over Neal's pencils in Batman Odyssey. Kris posted a couple of panels in his blog, which I'm posting here. I can't think of a better choice to do this task, and I'm looking forward to see this comic finished.

 

 

[CollectingFool]

Hey Ruben, do you know when the items in question were stolen and which pieces they were? As a collector of his work, I would be more than just a little curious.

 

 

In March of 2000 this all played out on Comicart-L. He had accused me of selling stolen goods because I had a couple of Ben Casey dailies for sale on eBay. Funny thing is they weren't even mine, I was selling them as a favor for someone else. Turns out after I started asking around I found out he was doing this every time he saw an old piece of his. In the end he decided to just pursue those pieces on the police report and he had the list up on his website. I don't collect Neal's comic book art so I didn't keep a copy of it. I'm sure they have a copy they can email. It might have been posted on Comicart-L but I haven't had time to look and I have to get to work. Neal and Jason both posted on Comicart-L. If you search for Adams Stolen (in the advanced search options) before December 2000 you'll find a lot of stuff. My email was the initial one so you can add "Ruben" in the author to the search and that can give you a starting point. Also try Neal in the author and you'll see all his comments. It got a bit ugly and everyone came forward with their opinions and stories and some people are a little less tactful than others.

 

 

 

 

[heartened]

Hey Ruben, do you know when the items in question were stolen and which pieces they were? As a collector of his work, I would be more than just a little curious.

 

 

In March of 2000 this all played out on Comicart-L. He had accused me of selling stolen goods because I had a couple of Ben Casey dailies for sale on eBay. Funny thing is they weren't even mine, I was selling them as a favor for someone else. Turns out after I started asking around I found out he was doing this every time he saw an old piece of his. In the end he decided to just pursue those pieces on the police report and he had the list up on his website. I don't collect Neal's comic book art so I didn't keep a copy of it. I'm sure they have a copy they can email. It might have been posted on Comicart-L but I haven't had time to look and I have to get to work. Neal and Jason both posted on Comicart-L. If you search for Adams Stolen (in the advanced search options) before December 2000 you'll find a lot of stuff. My email was the initial one so you can add "Ruben" in the author to the search and that can give you a starting point. Also try Neal in the author and you'll see all his comments. It got a bit ugly and everyone came forward with their opinions and stories and some people are a little less tactful than others.

 

 

 

 

I remember this entire mess from back then. Of course, I was relatively new to the hobby with little art to my name, so I was mainly an observor. My take now is that it's such a murky issue, and in most cases there is regret (at best) or jealousy (at worst) amongst artists who did great work back in the day but didn't have the current market dynamics where they could get back and sell their own art on the secondary market. The nostalgia factor, as big as it is for us, must be far greater for them, another component to the equation that probably blurs their viewpoint.

 

From my standpoint, I have always admired the art, and only rarely the artist. Indeed, the artist has to prove their worth as a person to me, for me to call them a friend, just as I would have to prove the same to them. There exist presently two ways than an artist would be able to get their art back from me. First would be to ask me. If it's something I could live without, and I felt the artist wanted it not to flip again but to keep for sentimental reasons, and of course if it's an artist I've had a positive relationship with, then I might very well let it go. Perhaps even for free. The second way would be if they demanded it. Of course, they would have to sue me and win in court for that to happen, and I'd very well fight it full-court-press just to see what happens and perhaps even set a precedent.

 

In the end, being pleasant and asking politely is always the better way. I think perhaps Mr. Adams has come to realize this as well.

 

[Ferran Delgado]

Scott,

 

Allow me to suggest you not to review these old posts by Neal Adams in Comicart-L. I think that you wouldn't like his opinion on the inker's work and his right to get a share on the original art.

 

Anyway, this was a decade ago, and people evolve...

 

Ferran

[Ferran Delgado]

My understanding is that Neal and his family no longer seek the return of artwork, even if they believe it to have once been stolen. I believe they have come the conclusion that that ship has sailed. Wasn't true 10-15 years ago, but I believe that is their position now.

 

Can anyone confirm this?

 

Scott Williams

 

This was the last part of Neal's last post in Comicart-L (Jun 20, 2000):

 

Finally: A general comment. This is an analogy. What has happened is

this : I get a series of calls one evening that stuff of mine was stolen,

but I'd already known of certain thefts, so I let it go. more and more the

calls come and more and more I am astonished by the number of thefts.

Finally, my own family begins looking through the files in the basement and

more and more is missing and is being stolen under our noses. (Analogy)

So I go outside to confront the thieves, and as I watch, certain people

disappear into the night time suburban trees and behind cars. People in the

middle of the street are confused. Sincere collectors holding honestly

purchased pages. Some pages have gone from hand to hand up to 10 times.

There are many of these people. Behind them.... are people holding art that

they think might be stolen.... so they don't step forward. Behind them are

others who know the work has been stolen. They are deep deep in the shadows.

They don't talk, except to call each other on their cell phones. deeper

still are the actual thieves and the cronies. They blend in with the black.

Up front, facing me, are the innocent and the wordsmiths screaming "Unfair"

and "Who do you think you are" while their culprits slink in the shadows

pushing the loud and innocent forward.

 

So, I must decide what to do. Do I wade through the innocent in order to

get to the guilty? . .. For the innocent are very good shields for them.

 

The answer is, I can't. . . and wont. You all hiding in the shadows, doing

your deals out of sight of everyone and snickering that you've won ...

 

You didn't win. I simply left "this" field of battle for the sake of YOUR

victims and a lifetime of trouble.

You... you know who you are. You know what you've done . . . and you'll

always know.

That's why you do deals in secret and get together in small groups and laugh

about how you "got away with it". Shame.

 

Neal Adams

 

I removed the first part of his post because it was a direct answer to a member, and it was not necessary to answer the question.

[CollectingFool]

I only referred to the Comicart-L archive because I thought at some point Neal or Jason listed the art in the police report. I know they had a page on their website but I thought it was posted too.

 

The three (or more) months worth of posts on this topic on Comicart-L were wildly brutal sometimes. Lots of people said LOTS of things they probably regret now. I believe the hobby seemed smaller back then and people spoke more openly because they felt they were talking to friends. Who knew 10 years later someone might go back and take a look at what they said! I think it's very interesting to reread that stuff now and see some of the arguments made. Many people hide their true opinions now and worry more about their public persona. That goes for both artists and collectors. While I don't agree with a lot of what used to be said back then, I do miss people giving their real opinons and not the "PR approved politically correct" opinions.

 

[mrpunch0]

Semi-related tangent:

 

One of my first comic memories is a story with Batman vs a werewolf.

 

Anyway, whenever I ask people about this (trying to find an issue to read) I get blank stares.

 

Mitch's note references a werewolf issue Adams did - and this is as close as I have ever come. Anyone have some issue numbers for me so I can go take a look?

 

Thanks.

[irchooker]

Semi-related tangent:

 

One of my first comic memories is a story with Batman vs a werewolf.

 

Anyway, whenever I ask people about this (trying to find an issue to read) I get blank stares.

 

Mitch's note references a werewolf issue Adams did - and this is as close as I have ever come. Anyone have some issue numbers for me so I can go take a look?

 

Thanks.

 

I took me 38 seconds:

 

http://www.comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=38310

 

Read the story here - http://swords-and-veeblefetzers.blogspot.com/2009/10/my-first-neal-adams-comic-book.html

[jjonahjameson1]

[quote=heartened. Of course, they would have to sue me and win in court for that to happen, and I'd very well fight it full-court-press just to see what happens and perhaps even set a precedent.

 

 

That raises a good question. Are any of the legal eagles here aware if such a precedent has been set?

[Ferran Delgado]

http://www.comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=38310

Read the story here - http://swords-and-veeblefetzers.blogspot.com/2009/10/my-first-neal-adams-comic-book.html

 

Thanks for the links! I forgot about this one, and it's prime Neal Adams! I should buy the recent Batman reprints by Adams...

 

It's curious but it brings to my mind the Werewolf run in Moon Knight by Sienkiewicz (#29-30).

http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=1534

 

Well, not too surprising since Sienkiewicz started his career with a high influence by his work, although by the end of his run in MK, he already found his own style.