Pedigree Auction Sales and Relistings. Legit?

[adamstrange]

And to think people used to ask me why I switched my collecting to almost entirely Original Art over 15 years ago.

 

All this kinda stuff sort of answers the question by itself.

 

Yeah. The OA market is pure.

 

I have been collecting both comics and OA for 20+ years and the best advice I can give is "caveat emptor." Based on what I've learned myself and from others about a number of other hobbies that same advice is universally useful. Don't assume that because the item in question is a thing of beauty that the normal rules of commerce will be suspended.

[Domo Arigato]

The same thing that's irritating about expecting a person selling comic books to be honest and disclose pressing--nothing. Except it's still gonna happen no matter WHAT I expect...so fretting over other people's greed that I can't control is a waste of time and brain power.

Sort of like how complaining about those doing the fretting is?

Terrorism is bad. Don't you just wish it would go away?

 

Snow, too. We need to get rid of snow.

SEE? There you go!

 

If you started a thread complaining about snow and how to get rid of it, I would not go in there and complain about the people complaining about it. Why? Because I think it would be a waste of time and brain power.

[Domo Arigato]

And it's certainly not out of my control. If George at GPA won't do something about it, then I'll simply speak with my wallet. And for the record...I'll state again that George is a terrific guy and I like the idea of GPA. But if sellers are freely allowed to manipulate the data like this...then it's not for me.

 

Your indignation is understandable...yet if everyone just complained emptily about it, hoping for a solution that's out of George's control...GPA would go away. And that'd be worse than it being there.

True.

 

And I don't want GPA to go away. I like it and want it to be as accurate as it can be (not perfect...just as accurate as George can make it). And this looks like at least one problem that could be fixed. Either a seller reports ALL public sales or they report none.

 

GPA is awesome. Not nearly perfect due to the human reporting factor, but awesome!

 

And George has made it the best he can make it. The techonology he's incorporated into the site and the depth of data on the site is really amazing.

I agree that GPA is awesome.

 

But if a seller/dealer is openly admitting to (or got caught) withholding the lower sales figures to manipulate the data going into it...then there is still something else George can do to make it the best he can make it.

[fantastic_four]

Either a seller (Pedigree in this instance) reports ALL public sales or they report none.

 

Impossible for George to control, and exceedingly difficult for him to determine.

[Domo Arigato]

Either a seller (Pedigree in this instance) reports ALL public sales or they report none.

Impossible for George to control, and exceedingly difficult for him to determine.

Not when it's admitted to or discovered through auction results like has happened in this thread.

[drbanner]

Either a seller (Pedigree in this instance) reports ALL public sales or they report none.

Impossible for George to control, and exceedingly difficult for him to determine.

 

Yep, it is typically impossible for George to determine what's being reported and what's not, except in the case of Pedigree since Doug just admitted here that he deliberately withholds "low" sales data. And in this case, since there's no issue of needing to verify it, George should toss out all of Pedigree's sales data. (thumbs u

[markseifert]

And to think people used to ask me why I switched my collecting to almost entirely Original Art over 15 years ago.

 

All this kinda stuff sort of answers the question by itself.

 

Yeah. The OA market is pure.

 

 

Everything is relative my friend.

 

I'd be on top of a mountain in Nepal contemplating the meaning of my navel wearing only a cloth diaper if I wanted complete purity.

 

However, I want my comics too, and compared to the stuff being discussed in this thread OA is the driven snow baby...the driven snow.

 

This is a tangent, but in regards to some of the data transparency issues being discussed here, the OA market is much more difficult to get a handle on than comics are, particularly at the top end. Info about top end sales is often closely held, and knowledge of such private sales is definitely considered power by many OA collectors. Similar forces are in play in comics, but even at the top end there is much more publicly available data.

[DrWatson]

Again, I The problem is some of the purchasers who got them at less than current GPA value ask me not to report the sale for obvious reasons and I respect that. If you bought an ASM 14, for example, at $5,000, knowing you got it on the cheap, want that sale to be purposely made public when you are trying to sell it for $9,000?

 

If this is the norm, then Grade Point Average data is not worth the paper its written on, and is about as reliable as using a thimble to hold a cup of coffee.

 

I'm with you, price manipulation, lets just report the higher verified sales, and gently leave out the "good deals" someone got, This is just krap! Misinformation, market trickery, Label chasers beware, the game you play is fixed.

 

Bunky

This is not news, Bunky.

[Domo Arigato]

Again, I The problem is some of the purchasers who got them at less than current GPA value ask me not to report the sale for obvious reasons and I respect that. If you bought an ASM 14, for example, at $5,000, knowing you got it on the cheap, want that sale to be purposely made public when you are trying to sell it for $9,000?

 

If this is the norm, then Grade Point Average data is not worth the paper its written on, and is about as reliable as using a thimble to hold a cup of coffee.

 

I'm with you, price manipulation, lets just report the higher verified sales, and gently leave out the "good deals" someone got, This is just krap! Misinformation, market trickery, Label chasers beware, the game you play is fixed.

 

Bunky

This is not news, Bunky.

THAT does it!

 

Scalp people...ATTACK YOUR HOST!!!

 

[DrWatson]

Ack, look at all the moral indignation...it's too late, this will now become another "GPA sucks!" thread. Ah well, let it be...at least it's good that this unresolvable topic doesn't recur as often as pressing threads do.

I'm with you, J.A.

[8milemax]

Either a seller (Pedigree in this instance) reports ALL public sales or they report none.

Impossible for George to control, and exceedingly difficult for him to determine.

 

Yep, it is typically impossible for George to determine what's being reported and what's not, except in the case of Pedigree since Doug just admitted here that he deliberately withholds "low" sales data. And in this case, since there's no issue of needing to verify it, George should toss out all of Pedigree's sales data. (thumbs u

 

Great Ideal! Don't allow Doug sales on GPA.

[Nexus]

And to think people used to ask me why I switched my collecting to almost entirely Original Art over 15 years ago.

 

All this kinda stuff sort of answers the question by itself.

 

Yeah. The OA market is pure.

 

The same seller shenanigans you find in high-grade comics, you'll find in OA. With OA, it's not quite as easy, since it's all one-of-a-kind. There is no price guide, which as this thread is showing, can be both a blessing and a curse.

 

But while there is attempted price/market manipulation in OA, there isn't any of this other stuff (pressing, crack-press-resub, trimming) that drove me out of high-grade because minor condition issues are a non-factor. Obsessing over microscopic defects really sucked the joy out of comics for me. I've found OA, as a collectible, to be way more satisfying and substantial to own than a copy of a comic that happens to have the fewest possible microscopic defects.

 

If I ever buy any more vintage comics, they'll be mid-grade, raw, and cheap. Frankly, these days, high-grade high-dollar slabs are for suckers.

[MrBedrock]

The unexpected upside to switching to almost all OA was that I got to avoid those certain dealers who treated everyone like absolute simply because they had a Cap 1 or Tec 27 on their wall, and watched as everyone still bought from them because they had the books they wanted. It was nice to say goodbye to guys like that forever.

Interesting...one of the reasons I rarely search for original art is that, from my experience, art dealers typically treat everyone like "absolute " because they have something that is unique and only available from that one dealer. There are plenty of Cap 1s and Det 27s if you have patience, so the dealer who treats you bad doesn't have to be the one who gets your money. But there is only one piece of original art, and if the dealer who has it is a jerk then you are screwed.

[DrWatson]

Either a seller (Pedigree in this instance) reports ALL public sales or they report none.

Impossible for George to control, and exceedingly difficult for him to determine.

 

Yep, it is typically impossible for George to determine what's being reported and what's not, except in the case of Pedigree since Doug just admitted here that he deliberately withholds "low" sales data. And in this case, since there's no issue of needing to verify it, George should toss out all of Pedigree's sales data. (thumbs u

 

Great Ideal! Don't allow Doug sales on GPA.

And that would help how, precisely?

[Bunky Brian]

What is irritating about expecting a person reporting GPA sales to be honest?

 

Isn't that what this thread's bottom line is all about?

 

If I may borrow from John.

 

Doug shoulda Man'd up and reported the sale whether the buyer likes it or not. (thumbs u

 

Bob is 100% correct, omiting facts like sales price to GPA is pee stained.

To take Doug's point, since a buyer got a good deal, only paid 5K for a book,relist it, but do not report the sale? So he can ask 9K?, I'm speechless as to how that reaks of Good Ole Boy Backroom dealings ! As a fair minded buyer, doing my homework, I want to see the 5K, purchase price, on GPA, bottom line information trickery,

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Yep, it is typically impossible for George to determine what's being reported and what's not, except in the case of Pedigree since Doug just admitted here that he deliberately withholds "low" sales data. And in this case, since there's no issue of needing to verify it, George should toss out all of Pedigree's sales data. (thumbs u

 

Maybe. But I know for absolute certain that EBay data is worse, yet it's in there. I suspect Heritage's data might not be much better than Pedigree's.

 

I don't know of any highly reliable place for GPA to get data from.

[Bunky Brian]

And to think people used to ask me why I switched my collecting to almost entirely Original Art over 15 years ago.

 

All this kinda stuff sort of answers the question by itself.

 

Yeah. The OA market is pure.

 

But while there is attempted price/market manipulation in OA, there isn't any of this other stuff (pressing, crack-press-resub, trimming) that drove me out of high-grade because minor condition issues are a non-factor. Obsessing over microscopic defects really sucked the joy out of comics for me. I've found OA, as a collectible, to be way more satisfying and substantial to own than a copy of a comic that happens to have the fewest possible microscopic defects.

 

If I ever buy any more vintage comics, they'll be mid-grade, raw, and cheap. Frankly, these days, high-grade high-dollar slabs are for suckers.

(thumbs u

[MrBedrock]

Frankly, these days, high-grade high-dollar slabs are for suckers.

Call me Lollipop

[DrWatson]

Here's a question. How many of the individuals complaining about GPA actually have a subscription?

 

I have one and I consider it an excellent guide in determining what I want to price my books when I sell them and what I want to pay for books when I buy them.. raw or slabbed.

 

To those of you who do have a subscription and now find GPA no longer valid, I would recommend canceling your subscriptions and signing up with the competition.... oh, wait. I guess it's back to Overstreet and a homemade algorithm to determine your slab prices.

[Nexus]

The unexpected upside to switching to almost all OA was that I got to avoid those certain dealers who treated everyone like absolute simply because they had a Cap 1 or Tec 27 on their wall, and watched as everyone still bought from them because they had the books they wanted. It was nice to say goodbye to guys like that forever.

Interesting...one of the reasons I rarely search for original art is that, from my experience, art dealers typically treat everyone like "absolute " because they have something that is unique and only available from that one dealer. There are plenty of Cap 1s and Det 27s if you have patience, so the dealer who treats you bad doesn't have to be the one who gets your money. But there is only one piece of original art, and if the dealer who has it is a jerk then you are screwed.

 

Thanks for bringing this up. Absolutely, there are jerky dealers in OA. But no one dealer holds a monopoly on any one artist. Like Kirby? There are great examples from any number of dealers. Knock yourself out. Even for artists who are repped, and that rep is a , there is bound to be stuff on the secondary market. Yes, any given piece is one-of-a-kind...but there is plenty out there to choose from if you are patient.

 

Anyhow, if you don't like dealing with dealers, then there's always Ebay and other collectors. That's how I've gotten the majority of my collection. Very little of it has come from dealers (and none from Heritage or ComicLink, although those are options as well...at your own risk).