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Pedigree Auction Sales and Relistings. Legit?

Started by qualitycomix,

901 posts in this topic

comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale, if that's true, then it's data manipulation.

 

Ok, how is this data manipulation? I recently had someone buy a book privately from me that I had at one time listed on ComicLink. He knew this and requested that the ComicLink listing be removed. His reasons were that he was a private individual and I respected that, however I also acknowledged that if the book changed hands, what would be the purpose of keeping a listing active. So I gladly removed the listing.

 

In the back of my mind, there certainly was some posturing that the person might likely want relist it, improved or not, and didn't want the price/scan he paid for the book to appear anywhere online. As a seller, how can you possibly ever appease the manipulation argument if a considerable amount of time passes or the buyer decides a venue change might be all that's need for a value upturn?

 

People post books on these boards all the time that experience incremental and quantum jumps in sales within a few months of time from the time they made a previous appearance. Sometimes a resubmit, press or venue change can do it. It happens with board sales all the time, and if anything, this fuels some of the animosity that is manifested with member in-fighting.

 

We can speculate all we want about price manipulation, but there is a money-making component to this hobby that we dearly love, and while I understand there is a significant sentiment of greed associated with flipping books (especially in a manner that can be construed as egregious or unethical when it is multiples of what a book previously sold as). However, IMHO there is just as much a need to reconcile this venture aspect in so far as recognizing that when altruism calls a need for incident grandstanding, there is a significant toll and requirement to lump and group-in a vast volume of activity in this hobby that can be showcased in a similar vain.

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qualitycomix

qualitycomix

Posted
  • Author
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale,

 

There are over 100 examples in his last auction. 20% of the books in his auction were sold at auction with no reserve and subsequently removed from the auction results. Then relisted immediately back on the site. And this happens every auction recently.

 

And yes, I do care. If you don't, then don't post.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Sorry, I didn't realize you were now Chairman of Board Postings too? I will ask your permission from now on.

Dale

 

Post if you want. But if you don't care, then why bother?

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale, if that's true, then it's data manipulation.

 

Ok, how is this data manipulation? I recently had someone buy a book privately from me that I had listed on ComicLink. He knew this and requested that the ComicLink listing be removed. His reasons were that he was a private individual and I respected that, however I also acknowledged that if the book changed hands, what would be the purpose of keeping a listing active. So I gladly remove the listing.

 

In the back of my mind, there certainly was some posturing that the person was going to likely relist it, improved or not, and didn't want the price/scan he paid for the book to appear anywhere online. As a seller, how can you possibly ever appease the manipulation argument if a considerable amount of time passes or the buyer decides a venue change might be all that's need for a value upturn?

 

People post books on these boards all the time that experience incremental and quantum jumps in sales within a few months of time from the time they made a previous appearance. It happens with board sales all the time, and if anything, this fuels some of the animosity that is manifested with member in-fighting.

 

We can speculate all we want about price manipulation, but there is a money-making component to this hobby that we dearly love, and while I understand there is a significant tone of greed associated to flipping books (especially in a manner that can be construed as egregious when it is multiples of what a book previously sold as), we need to reconcile this venture aspect in so far as recognizing that when altruism calls a need for incident grandstanding, there is a significant toll and requirement to lump and group-in a vast volume of activity in this hobby that can be showcased in a similar vain.

 

Simply because he is picking and choosing the data to be reported. I have worked with Data my entire career, and you can't just arbitrarily choose which prices to report, it manipulates the survey. IF his site is supposed to be reporting ALL sales, then it needs to report all sales. Sales from other venues wouldn't matter, since they are not part of the survey.

 

Personally, I don't collect high grade books, so I'm not really worried about how accurate GPA is, but I think George might be concerned with this information.

 

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Dale Roberts

Dale Roberts

Posted
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale,

 

There are over 100 examples in his last auction. 20% of the books in his auction were sold at auction with no reserve and subsequently removed from the auction results. Then relisted immediately back on the site. And this happens every auction recently.

 

And yes, I do care. If you don't, then don't post.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Sorry, I didn't realize you were now Chairman of Board Postings too? I will ask your permission from now on.

Dale

 

Post if you want. But if you don't care, then why bother?

 

I will PM with you why I bother. And thanks for your permission.

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Dale Roberts

Dale Roberts

Posted
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale, if that's true, then it's data manipulation.

 

Ok, how is this data manipulation? I recently had someone buy a book privately from me that I had listed on ComicLink. He knew this and requested that the ComicLink listing be removed. His reasons were that he was a private individual and I respected that, however I also acknowledged that if the book changed hands, what would be the purpose of keeping a listing active. So I gladly remove the listing.

 

In the back of my mind, there certainly was some posturing that the person was going to likely relist it, improved or not, and didn't want the price/scan he paid for the book to appear anywhere online. As a seller, how can you possibly ever appease the manipulation argument if a considerable amount of time passes or the buyer decides a venue change might be all that's need for a value upturn?

 

People post books on these boards all the time that experience incremental and quantum jumps in sales within a few months of time from the time they made a previous appearance. It happens with board sales all the time, and if anything, this fuels some of the animosity that is manifested with member in-fighting.

 

We can speculate all we want about price manipulation, but there is a money-making component to this hobby that we dearly love, and while I understand there is a significant tone of greed associated to flipping books (especially in a manner that can be construed as egregious when it is multiples of what a book previously sold as), we need to reconcile this venture aspect in so far as recognizing that when altruism calls a need for incident grandstanding, there is a significant toll and requirement to lump and group-in a vast volume of activity in this hobby that can be showcased in a similar vain.

 

Simply because he is picking and choosing the data to be reported. I have worked with Data my entire career, and you can't just arbitrarily choose which prices to report, it manipulates the survey. IF his site is supposed to be reporting ALL sales, then it needs to report all sales. Sales from other venues wouldn't matter, since they are not part of the survey.

 

Personally, I don't collect high grade books, so I'm not really worried about how accurate GPA is, but I think George might be concerned with this information.

 

 

Every seller who reports to George other than an auction site(ebay and Heritage) CAN pick and choose which data he submits.

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale, if that's true, then it's data manipulation.

 

Ok, how is this data manipulation? I recently had someone buy a book privately from me that I had listed on ComicLink. He knew this and requested that the ComicLink listing be removed. His reasons were that he was a private individual and I respected that, however I also acknowledged that if the book changed hands, what would be the purpose of keeping a listing active. So I gladly remove the listing.

 

In the back of my mind, there certainly was some posturing that the person was going to likely relist it, improved or not, and didn't want the price/scan he paid for the book to appear anywhere online. As a seller, how can you possibly ever appease the manipulation argument if a considerable amount of time passes or the buyer decides a venue change might be all that's need for a value upturn?

 

People post books on these boards all the time that experience incremental and quantum jumps in sales within a few months of time from the time they made a previous appearance. It happens with board sales all the time, and if anything, this fuels some of the animosity that is manifested with member in-fighting.

 

We can speculate all we want about price manipulation, but there is a money-making component to this hobby that we dearly love, and while I understand there is a significant tone of greed associated to flipping books (especially in a manner that can be construed as egregious when it is multiples of what a book previously sold as), we need to reconcile this venture aspect in so far as recognizing that when altruism calls a need for incident grandstanding, there is a significant toll and requirement to lump and group-in a vast volume of activity in this hobby that can be showcased in a similar vain.

 

Simply because he is picking and choosing the data to be reported. I have worked with Data my entire career, and you can't just arbitrarily choose which prices to report, it manipulates the survey. IF his site is supposed to be reporting ALL sales, then it needs to report all sales. Sales from other venues wouldn't matter, since they are not part of the survey.

 

Personally, I don't collect high grade books, so I'm not really worried about how accurate GPA is, but I think George might be concerned with this information.

 

 

Every seller who reports to George other than an auction site(ebay and Heritage) CAN pick and choose which data he submits.

 

Then what is the point of GPA? It cannot be an accurate picture.

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qualitycomix

qualitycomix

Posted
  • Author
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale, if that's true, then it's data manipulation.

 

Ok, how is this data manipulation? I recently had someone buy a book privately from me that I had listed on ComicLink. He knew this and requested that the ComicLink listing be removed. His reasons were that he was a private individual and I respected that, however I also acknowledged that if the book changed hands, what would be the purpose of keeping a listing active. So I gladly remove the listing.

 

In the back of my mind, there certainly was some posturing that the person was going to likely relist it, improved or not, and didn't want the price/scan he paid for the book to appear anywhere online. As a seller, how can you possibly ever appease the manipulation argument if a considerable amount of time passes or the buyer decides a venue change might be all that's need for a value upturn?

 

People post books on these boards all the time that experience incremental and quantum jumps in sales within a few months of time from the time they made a previous appearance. It happens with board sales all the time, and if anything, this fuels some of the animosity that is manifested with member in-fighting.

 

We can speculate all we want about price manipulation, but there is a money-making component to this hobby that we dearly love, and while I understand there is a significant tone of greed associated to flipping books (especially in a manner that can be construed as egregious when it is multiples of what a book previously sold as), we need to reconcile this venture aspect in so far as recognizing that when altruism calls a need for incident grandstanding, there is a significant toll and requirement to lump and group-in a vast volume of activity in this hobby that can be showcased in a similar vain.

 

Simply because he is picking and choosing the data to be reported. I have worked with Data my entire career, and you can't just arbitrarily choose which prices to report, it manipulates the survey. IF his site is supposed to be reporting ALL sales, then it needs to report all sales. Sales from other venues wouldn't matter, since they are not part of the survey.

 

Personally, I don't collect high grade books, so I'm not really worried about how accurate GPA is, but I think George might be concerned with this information.

 

 

Every seller who reports to George other than an auction site(ebay and Heritage) CAN pick and choose which data he submits.

 

News to me. Is that what GPA says, or is that what happens?

 

And we are talking about auctions here, not retail sales.

 

I'm still asking the same questions which Doug has not answered.

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blazingbob

blazingbob

Posted
Posted

Somehow my name is always in one of these threads lol.

 

Any publicity is good publicity I guess :o

 

In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale, if that's true, then it's data manipulation.

 

Ok, how is this data manipulation? I recently had someone buy a book privately from me that I had listed on ComicLink. He knew this and requested that the ComicLink listing be removed. His reasons were that he was a private individual and I respected that, however I also acknowledged that if the book changed hands, what would be the purpose of keeping a listing active. So I gladly remove the listing.

 

In the back of my mind, there certainly was some posturing that the person was going to likely relist it, improved or not, and didn't want the price/scan he paid for the book to appear anywhere online. As a seller, how can you possibly ever appease the manipulation argument if a considerable amount of time passes or the buyer decides a venue change might be all that's need for a value upturn?

 

People post books on these boards all the time that experience incremental and quantum jumps in sales within a few months of time from the time they made a previous appearance. It happens with board sales all the time, and if anything, this fuels some of the animosity that is manifested with member in-fighting.

 

We can speculate all we want about price manipulation, but there is a money-making component to this hobby that we dearly love, and while I understand there is a significant tone of greed associated to flipping books (especially in a manner that can be construed as egregious when it is multiples of what a book previously sold as), we need to reconcile this venture aspect in so far as recognizing that when altruism calls a need for incident grandstanding, there is a significant toll and requirement to lump and group-in a vast volume of activity in this hobby that can be showcased in a similar vain.

 

Simply because he is picking and choosing the data to be reported. I have worked with Data my entire career, and you can't just arbitrarily choose which prices to report, it manipulates the survey. IF his site is supposed to be reporting ALL sales, then it needs to report all sales. Sales from other venues wouldn't matter, since they are not part of the survey.

 

Personally, I don't collect high grade books, so I'm not really worried about how accurate GPA is, but I think George might be concerned with this information.

 

 

But he already explained that when the book sells, it automatically alerts GPA. So regardless of whether or not the price says 0.00 on the site, that email went out with the hammer price. That is how I understood it. From my understanding, the emailing removes the need for GPA to scrape content from the site, so it could say 0.00 or SOLD and it wouldn't make a difference to the reporting.

 

I also work with data as part of my career and have done this pretty much out of school in a professional capacity. I want to pre-empt what I'm about to say by mentioning I am in no way taking sides on this matter. Data can be complex mainly because it is difficult to unlock gaps. The best you can do is report with a margin of error. In online environments, this is complicated by the very nature of the way information gets posted, syndicated, moved, archived, or lost due to catastrophic events associated to hardware attrition or power losses. Further complicating this are proprietary data structures used by auction/consignment sites, and the practices used by sellers to maximize returns on comic book sales.

 

I understand your concerns in this example, but as a reporting mechanism on CGC sales, it is difficult to push the envelope on validity of data because there are so many uknowns with reporting from even the most public sites like eBay. Do we know for instance, if a seller shills and wins his own auctions in a fit of protectionism, and decides to relist the book at a different venue? How valid would the auction yield of the former auction be in such an instance. There are many, many more ways auction results can be manipulated for economic gain. Again, the best way to deal with this in any data collection or aggregation task is to recognize some tells, and devise a methodology that can improve validity. Even in such cases, the best you can ever hope to accomplish from the most well-thought out and best practices is minimizing the margin of error in reporting.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
Then what is the point of GPA? It cannot be an accurate picture.

 

We've had a 100-page debate about this before. :frustrated: No, it's not entirely accurate...but it's all we've got. Take it or leave it.

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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
Then what is the point of GPA? It cannot be an accurate picture.

 

We've had a 100-page debate about this before. :frustrated: No, it's not entirely accurate...but it's all we've got. Take it or leave it.

 

And while we are at it, throw the OSPG under the bus too.

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bryan91

bryan91

Posted
Posted
Then what is the point of GPA? It cannot be an accurate picture.

 

We've had a 100-page debate about this before. :frustrated: No, it's not entirely accurate...but it's all we've got. Take it or leave it.

 

For the most part I feel it is pretty accurate. You just have to look more at the averages and not the crazy high or low sales for a certain book. So I take it as a starting point and make my own decisions from there.

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
Posted

 

Every seller who reports to George other than an auction site(ebay and Heritage) CAN pick and choose which data he submits.

 

The selective reporting to GPA is absolutely true. I have noticed this on some

significant purchases I have made at conventions, especially when the sale includes some trade.

 

Dale, just a comment on your remarks to Brent. If I am not mistaken, being a dealer is not a side job for you, like Brent this is your career. I would think you would want to see the integrity of this business maintained. Like Brent, you are one of the good guys, an honest dealer with a good reputation. IF (caps on purpose) Doug is doing anything shady it helps the community and your business to put a stop to it.

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Count

Count

Posted
Posted

 

But he already explained that when the book sells, it automatically alerts GPA. So regardless of whether or not the price says 0.00 on the site, that email went out with the hammer price. That is how I understood it. From my understanding, the emailing removes the need for GPA to scrape content from the site, so it could say 0.00 or SOLD and it wouldn't make a difference to the reporting.

 

 

 

Divad,

 

You can ask George yourself if you'd like. I do not actually have to manually send them any data, unless a book sells "off" of my site (like the TTA #27 9.4 last month). My web designer set it up so that when a book is paid for and shipped, I will click a "book shipped" email in the database to let the buyer know the book is on the way to him (or her). At the same time, an email is auto-generated to the consignor letting him know the item has been shipped and that payment for the book is forthcoming. And, a third email is auto-generated to George at GPA giving him all the book data so he can include it in the GPA report, etc. I believe it gives all the relevant info. he needs, including page quality and CGC cert. #.

 

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale, if that's true, then it's data manipulation.

 

Ok, how is this data manipulation? I recently had someone buy a book privately from me that I had listed on ComicLink. He knew this and requested that the ComicLink listing be removed. His reasons were that he was a private individual and I respected that, however I also acknowledged that if the book changed hands, what would be the purpose of keeping a listing active. So I gladly remove the listing.

 

In the back of my mind, there certainly was some posturing that the person was going to likely relist it, improved or not, and didn't want the price/scan he paid for the book to appear anywhere online. As a seller, how can you possibly ever appease the manipulation argument if a considerable amount of time passes or the buyer decides a venue change might be all that's need for a value upturn?

 

People post books on these boards all the time that experience incremental and quantum jumps in sales within a few months of time from the time they made a previous appearance. It happens with board sales all the time, and if anything, this fuels some of the animosity that is manifested with member in-fighting.

 

We can speculate all we want about price manipulation, but there is a money-making component to this hobby that we dearly love, and while I understand there is a significant tone of greed associated to flipping books (especially in a manner that can be construed as egregious when it is multiples of what a book previously sold as), we need to reconcile this venture aspect in so far as recognizing that when altruism calls a need for incident grandstanding, there is a significant toll and requirement to lump and group-in a vast volume of activity in this hobby that can be showcased in a similar vain.

 

Simply because he is picking and choosing the data to be reported. I have worked with Data my entire career, and you can't just arbitrarily choose which prices to report, it manipulates the survey. IF his site is supposed to be reporting ALL sales, then it needs to report all sales. Sales from other venues wouldn't matter, since they are not part of the survey.

 

Personally, I don't collect high grade books, so I'm not really worried about how accurate GPA is, but I think George might be concerned with this information.

 

 

But he already explained that when the book sells, it automatically alerts GPA. So regardless of whether or not the price says 0.00 on the site, that email went out with the hammer price. That is how I understood it. From my understanding, the emailing removes the need for GPA to scrape content from the site, so it could say 0.00 or SOLD and it wouldn't make a difference to the reporting.

 

I also work with data as part of my career and have done this pretty much out of school in a professional capacity. I want to pre-empt what I'm about to say by mentioning I am in no way taking sides on this matter. Data can be complex mainly because it is difficult to unlock gaps. The best you can do is report with a margin of error. In online environments, this is complicated by the very nature of the way information gets posted, syndicated, moved, archived, or lost due to catastrophic events associated to hardware attrition or power losses. Further complicating this are the practices used by sellers to maximize returns on comic book sales.

 

I understand your concerns in this example, but as a reporting mechanism on CGC sales, it is difficult to push the envelope on validity of data because there are so many uknowns with reporting from even the most public sites like eBay. Do we know for instance, if a seller shills and wins his own auctions in a fit of protectionism, and decides to relist the book at a different venue? How valid would the auction yield of the former auction be in such an instance. There are many, many more ways auction results can be manipulated for economic gain. Again, the best way to deal with this in any data collection or aggregation task is to recognize some tells, and devise a methodology that can improve validity. Even in such cases, the best you can ever hope to accomplish from the most well-thought out and best practices is minimizing the margin of error in reporting.

 

The way I'm reading his statement, he's not saying that when it sells it's reported, he is saying that when it's "paid for" ...the problem is, there seems to be other issues, like payment in trade that can affect the reporting, or deliberately leaving certain sales out to help someone.

 

I'm not concerned with the accuracy of Overstreet, it's a guide. I've never worried about it being a "bible". I'm just commenting...

 

and I'll say what I say to myself EVERY time I read one of these threads...

 

Boy, am I GLAD I collect lower grade books;)

 

anyway...have fun ! :foryou:

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted
I think we should set up a big mud pit at MegaCon and let all you dealer guys sling it out there. :popcorn:

 

Will you by my tag team partner? Mr NOD & Capn Trips vs Doc Watson and Stone Cold Dale Roberts

Only if you promise to do your Ric Flair impersonation.

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Dale Roberts

Dale Roberts

Posted
Posted
In looking at Bob Storms thread, there was a discussion on ASM #6 CGC 9.4. Interestingly enough, I've been tracking that book (along with others) and it's sales price. One of the auctions I've been tracking is Pedigree Auctions.

 

Speaking of which, Pedigree sold the AS #6 9.4 for $7,500 in their last auction with CGC serial number: 0952657001.

 

The same book is up for sale in their inventory for $10,000.

 

The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29067

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29067

 

This is the case with numerous other books including Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 serial number 0994473001 which sold for $15,666 and is back in inventory for sale at $25,000. The book has been removed from the auction results.

 

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=29226

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=29226

 

The Avengers #4 9.4 has sold in more than 1 auction with no reserve and it is put back into his inventory at his ask price every time. It is my understanding that Doug owns this book and the AS #6 CGC 9.4 as well as other examples.

 

Here's another example. This time a Mound City purchase:

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/detail.php?issue_id=30211

http://www.pedigreecomics.com/auction-detail.php?issue_id=30211

 

This Flash #129 CGC 9.4 sold for $500 in the auction. Now it is listed back in his inventory for $2,500.

 

On a personal level, I like Doug and hold no ill will. I don't like what's happened in the past with the way he's handled a few things and I'll let the facts speak for themselves here.

 

Yes, a buyer could have backed out multiple times. Yes, I believe it's more likely that N.P. Gresham's twin brother is bidding on books at Pedigree.

 

 

I don't know what is what about this, but seems to me that a buyer could have picked up a deal on a book and listed the book for sale in the marketplace section right away. I have personally done this on comiclink, even using the scan from the auction.

Man, I wish I had enough time in my life to keep up with what everyone else is doing. :baiting:

 

Dale,

 

That's not the problem. If you click on the direct link, the final price is $0.00. But the books actually sold at auction.

 

Brent

 

Brent,

Maybe the buyer told him he would relist the book back on the site if he would remove the previous sale(making it easier to sell the book). I don't know, and I don't honestly care. It isn't my business. I just don't understand the rush to assume the worst about people. But maybe thats just me.

Dale

 

Dale, if that's true, then it's data manipulation.

 

Ok, how is this data manipulation? I recently had someone buy a book privately from me that I had listed on ComicLink. He knew this and requested that the ComicLink listing be removed. His reasons were that he was a private individual and I respected that, however I also acknowledged that if the book changed hands, what would be the purpose of keeping a listing active. So I gladly remove the listing.

 

In the back of my mind, there certainly was some posturing that the person was going to likely relist it, improved or not, and didn't want the price/scan he paid for the book to appear anywhere online. As a seller, how can you possibly ever appease the manipulation argument if a considerable amount of time passes or the buyer decides a venue change might be all that's need for a value upturn?

 

People post books on these boards all the time that experience incremental and quantum jumps in sales within a few months of time from the time they made a previous appearance. It happens with board sales all the time, and if anything, this fuels some of the animosity that is manifested with member in-fighting.

 

We can speculate all we want about price manipulation, but there is a money-making component to this hobby that we dearly love, and while I understand there is a significant tone of greed associated to flipping books (especially in a manner that can be construed as egregious when it is multiples of what a book previously sold as), we need to reconcile this venture aspect in so far as recognizing that when altruism calls a need for incident grandstanding, there is a significant toll and requirement to lump and group-in a vast volume of activity in this hobby that can be showcased in a similar vain.

 

Simply because he is picking and choosing the data to be reported. I have worked with Data my entire career, and you can't just arbitrarily choose which prices to report, it manipulates the survey. IF his site is supposed to be reporting ALL sales, then it needs to report all sales. Sales from other venues wouldn't matter, since they are not part of the survey.

 

Personally, I don't collect high grade books, so I'm not really worried about how accurate GPA is, but I think George might be concerned with this information.

 

 

Every seller who reports to George other than an auction site(ebay and Heritage) CAN pick and choose which data he submits.

 

News to me. Is that what GPA says, or is that what happens?

 

And we are talking about auctions here, not retail sales.

 

I'm still asking the same questions which Doug has not answered.

 

I am talking about retail sales. Not auctions.

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qualitycomix

qualitycomix

Posted
  • Author
Posted

But he already explained that when the book sells, it automatically alerts GPA. So regardless of whether or not the price says 0.00 on the site, that email went out with the hammer price. That is how I understood it. From my understanding, the emailing removes the need for GPA to scrape content from the site, so it could say 0.00 or SOLD and it wouldn't make a difference to the reporting.

 

I also work with data as part of my career and have done this pretty much out of school in a professional capacity. I want to pre-empt what I'm about to say by mentioning I am in no way taking sides on this matter. Data can be complex mainly because it is difficult to unlock gaps. The best you can do is report with a margin of error. In online environments, this is complicated by the very nature of the way information gets posted, syndicated, moved, archived, or lost due to catastrophic events associated to hardware attrition or power losses. Further complicating this are the practices used by sellers to maximize returns on comic book sales.

 

I understand your concerns in this example, but as a reporting mechanism on CGC sales, it is difficult to push the envelope on validity of data because there are so many uknowns with reporting from even the most public sites like eBay. Do we know for instance, if a seller shills and wins his own auctions in a fit of protectionism, and decides to relist the book at a different venue? How valid would the auction yield of the former auction be in such an instance. There are many, many more ways auction results can be manipulated for economic gain. Again, the best way to deal with this in any data collection or aggregation task is to recognize some tells, and devise a methodology that can improve validity. Even in such cases, the best you can ever hope to accomplish from the most well-thought out best practices is minimizing the margin of error in reporting.

 

The way I read it and the way we report it and the way George requested it is once the buyer pays, that triggers the sale to go into the GPA queue to be submitted.

 

100+ Auction sales were sold in Doug's last auction at no reserve with a sales price of $0.00 even though they sold for an actual amount. They have been removed from the auction results and are were immediately relisted on the site.

 

And there are previous auctions where the exact same thing happened.

 

So in my mind, there are 3 possibilities:

1) Data manipulation for the sake of the consignor or buyer/reseller

2) Immediate resale by the new buyer ( but then why the $0.00 sales prices?)

3) Doug bought his own books back because the results weren't what he wanted

 

I think #3 is more likely, but I'd like to see what Doug's explanation is specifically.

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted

 

Every seller who reports to George other than an auction site(ebay and Heritage) CAN pick and choose which data he submits.

 

The selective reporting to GPA is absolutely true. I have noticed this on some

significant purchases I have made at conventions, especially when the sale includes some trade.

 

Dale, just a comment on your remarks to Brent. If I am not mistaken, being a dealer is not a side job for you, like Brent this is your career. I would think you would want to see the integrity of this business maintained. Like Brent, you are one of the good guys, an honest dealer with a good reputation. IF (caps on purpose) Doug is doing anything shady it helps the community and your business to put a stop to it.

This is Dale's only job. It is Brent's secondary job.

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Dale Roberts

Dale Roberts

Posted
Posted

 

Every seller who reports to George other than an auction site(ebay and Heritage) CAN pick and choose which data he submits.

 

The selective reporting to GPA is absolutely true. I have noticed this on some

significant purchases I have made at conventions, especially when the sale includes some trade.

 

Dale, just a comment on your remarks to Brent. If I am not mistaken, being a dealer is not a side job for you, like Brent this is your career. I would think you would want to see the integrity of this business maintained. Like Brent, you are one of the good guys, an honest dealer with a good reputation. IF (caps on purpose) Doug is doing anything shady it helps the community and your business to put a stop to it.

 

Bob,

I absolutely want the integrity of the business maintained. I do everything I can within my business to maintain that. But I also look at it like this. As a seller, your reputation is everything. I have worked hard to build mine and will work hard to maintain mine, but when I see someone (especially someone who is a competitor) throwing accusations without proof, it makes me uncomfortable, because it could happen to anyone, and I don't want it happening to me. And people are QUICK to assume the worst.

As I have already stated, I have no idea what Doug is doing. I am not making any judgment one way or another. I am simply saying, the very title of this thread seems sensationalistic to me and makes me uncomfortable. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until there is proof.

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