Batman # 1 Blue label 9.0 to be auctioned on ComicLink again.

[kimik]

I think that 200k or so for the Pay copy of Marvel `1 was money well spent and with patience , the reward is going to be very big. This [lull] in Marvel 1s was not a downdraft.It was an opportunity.Hasnt shut yet. It will.

 

How far out are you thinking? It will be interesting to see how high the Action #1 CGC 8.5 is going to sell for. My guess is that we are seeing some highs set in the GA on books that will not be reached again for some time, just like we have seen/are seeing with SA and BA books. As Tim alluded to in an earlier post, the smart money is selling for a reason.

[Silver Surfer]

Ryan, how can a $100K or $200K book be second tier? I don't understand your logic.

 

They may be ranked in a certain order, but I don't think that would be enough to qualify them as a second tier book.

 

Price is irrelevant in my ranking of 1st Tier, 2nd Tier, etc. books, Roy, just significance. If you look at the upper echelon of books in the hobby across all ages, you can boil it down to just those 5.

 

FF#1 is about as significant as your going to get. The first Marvel book as they come out of the Timely's hibernation led by Stan Lee (the Odin of the comic industry). FF along with the X-Men are probably the most well known super hero teams, what even comes close the Superfriends? As I mentioned earlier its value is almost at par with AF#15 and everything else is a distant 3rd. What more do they need to do?

[Rip]

I'd rather take the Denver 8.5 that went for 155K. The Pay copy is a generous 9.0 to say the least. Other than the tec 27, AC1, and MC1, I think Sups 1 in claimed 9.0 could compete and easily surpass the AF16 9.6 as well.

But all it takes is one or two crazy bidders. The Church AA16 (owned again by the same owner of the MC1) was rumored to go for a million, but I guess that sale never went through.

[Silver Surfer]

George's Denver copy at $155k was a steal.

[Crowzilla]

Even I can admit that an Action #1 is a landmark book in comic history but to suggest that DC's biggest rival the last 70 years (and industry leader for the last half century) doesn't have similar importance is silly.

 

Surfer, just to interject some historical accuracy.

There is no doubt that Marvel is currently the largest publisher, and has been for 30 years, but in the GA the biggest competition to DC was certainly Fawcett, while Timely was I believe the 5th or 6th biggest publisher during that time. In the 50s of course Dell was the main rival to DC, and even as late as 1970 Marvel only had one title (Spider-man) that cracked the top ten in circulation and that was at #7. Superman and Batman each averaged over 500K copies an issue in 1968 (636K and 533K respectively), and Marvel didn't take over the top publishing position until the direct market and Byrne's X-men put them there at the end of the 70s.

 

And I also agree that at present it is crazy to think the top AF #15 could touch the Church Marvel #1 in price, but I will say that we have no idea what people will want or collect 30, 40, and 50 years from now.

[Silver Surfer]

Yes all good points and yes my Marvel pyjamas are probably showing a bit as I make those generalizations. I suspect DC's stranglehold on distribution in the 60's had a lot to do with their superior numbers pre 1968. Marvel's/Stan success was largely due to he fact that their characters were much more interesting than the bulk of DC's (speaking about the SA era and on). Its no coincidence that Marvel has showcased many of their characters in movies the last 10 years while DC is stuck in the mud showcasing Supes and Bats remakes/relaunches, etc. However, I am looking forward to the Green Lantern movie but I wonder if it will have enough steam to carry a couple more sequels?

[comicartfan]

My rationale on the AF #15 in 20 years is a generational thing since there should be more collectors at that point interested in the top SA book to own, AF #15, than a 2nd tier GA key.

 

Ryan, I think you need to pull back on the stick a little bit. Calling a Marvel #1 a second tier book is a little far fetched at this point.

 

 

Roy, in my opinion there are only 4, maybe 5 top tier books in the entire hobby. They include 2 GA - Action #1 and Tec #27, 1 SA - AF #15, 1 BA - Hulk #181, and you can add 1 Copper Age - TMNT #1. MC #1 falls into the 2nd tier along with FF#1, X-Men #1, SC #4 and #22, etc.

 

I would include the All American 16 CGC 9.4 Mile High and the Allentown Detective 38 CGC 9.4 too......

[Flash105]

Batman-14 MC 1- 5. That is a pretty good gap that I did not expect in among the "enlightened" collectors. Out in the real world of comics I suspect Batman would win overwhelmingly.

 

Amongst top books there are two more not to forget. The Mile High Flash 1 is the fourth largest sale ever and I suspect Captain America 1 would be a monster book if the highest graded came to market.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I think that 200k or so for the Pay copy of Marvel `1 was money well spent and with patience , the reward is going to be very big. This [lull] in Marvel 1s was not a downdraft.It was an opportunity.Hasnt shut yet. It will.

 

How far out are you thinking? It will be interesting to see how high the Action #1 CGC 8.5 is going to sell for. My guess is that we are seeing some highs set in the GA on books that will not be reached again for some time, just like we have seen/are seeing with SA and BA books. As Tim alluded to in an earlier post, the smart money is selling for a reason.

 

Would this be the same smart money that's been losing his shirt selling his collection through Heritage recently, or just the guys selling off their Action # 1s that they've been holding onto for decades?

[1koko]

George's Denver copy at $155k was a steal.

 

[G.A.tor]

George's Denver copy at $155k was a steal.

 

[1koko]

George's Denver copy at $155k was a steal.

 

 

You were focused on the Action #1 6.0 being auctioneed at the same time.

[G.A.tor]

George's Denver copy at $155k was a steal.

 

 

You were focused on the Action #1 6.0 being auctioneed at the same time.

[fantastic_four]

FF #1, X-men #1 second tier?

 

 

Nevermind. Conversation over.

 

 

I generally agree with him...Marvel 1, FF #1, and X-Men #1 aren't in the same class as Detective 27, Action 1, and AF15. I'm pretty sure he's measuring demand for the books based upon popularity of the characters, and you can't top Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man. Those three are just in a different league of popularity than all the others. Wolverine is in that same league with regards to popularity...not so sure I agree about TMNT though, it doesn't hold up well with adults like the others do.

[fantastic_four]

The Church MC#1 in 9.6 or 9.8 condition is worth millions.

 

You need to take an "s" off of that "millions"...it's debatable that book would reach a million, but two is ludicrous.

[buttock]

There might be a lot of Marvel fans that would "take" a Marvel #1 over a Bat #1, but that's the key word - take. The pool of willing and able buyers is much less than those that would simply take one.

 

So far, there have not been a lot of collectors that have gone from wanting to finish that 9.0+ Spidey set to deciding that they need a Marvel #1 also (even though you can pretty much get any Marvel #1 that comes to market for less than a 9.8 copy of Spidey #5, or a decent low grade and/or restored copy for the price of a FF #112 in 9.8 - makes no sense at all). But if few to no SA Marvel fans make the transition to collecting GA, then Batman #1 will continue to gain and eventually surpass Marvel #1 in price (as it occasionally does now in certain situations).

 

This is true and makes you wonder how and when this started to happen. Was it people's talking about it that made it happen or what is the Pay copy and a few other copies resurfacing just a few times too many that made people "want to pay less" for a copy of MC #1?

Yes.

 

I disagree that it is primarily due to the abundance of copies. The biggest problem IMHO is that the biggest Timely/Atlas/Marvel book is AF #15, not MC #1. Action #1 = 1st Superman + start of superhero comics; Tec #27 = 1st Batman; MC #1 = ?. Twenty years from now I would not be surprised if the top copy of AF #15 (is there a 9.8 lurking somewhere?) is worth more than the top copy of MC #1.

 

I don't think its going to take 20 years.

 

 

I'm thinking the 9.6 AF 15 would give the Church Marvel 1 a run for its money right now.

not even close

 

My rationale on the AF #15 in 20 years is a generational thing since there should be more collectors at that point interested in the top SA book to own, AF #15, than a 2nd tier GA key. At that point there will likely be only a hand ful of books fetching top dollar, and AF #15 will be there along with Action #1 and Tec #27 but not MC #1.

 

Your bias/dislike towards MC#1's continues to show in your comments. Sure Spider-Man is probably the most popular character period but to suggest that the Church MC#1 isn't miles ahead of any AF#15 known to exist is a pipe dream. The Church MC#1 in 9.6 or 9.8 condition is worth millions. Even I can admit that an Action #1 is a landmark book in comic history but to suggest that DC's biggest rival the last 70 years (and industry leader for the last half century) doesn't have similar importance is silly.

 

OK, so what would a 9.X copy of Detective 1 or New Fun 1 be worth? Same rationale. Must be millions, no? And until Verzyl has the MC1 slabbed at 9.6 or 9.8 let's just dispense with speculation about it being that nice.

[G.A.tor]

The Church MC#1 in 9.6 or 9.8 condition is worth millions.

 

You need to take an "s" off of that "millions"...it's debatable that book would reach a million, but two is ludicrous.

I don't know...with verzyl, he might have a buyer at 2 million, making the "s" valid

[VintageComics]

FF #1, X-men #1 second tier?

 

 

Nevermind. Conversation over.

 

 

I generally agree with him...Marvel 1, FF #1, and X-Men #1 aren't in the same class as Detective 27, Action 1, and AF15. I'm pretty sure he's measuring demand for the books based upon popularity of the characters, and you can't top Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man. Those three are just in a different league of popularity than all the others. Wolverine is in that same league with regards to popularity...not so sure I agree about TMNT though, it doesn't hold up well with adults like the others do.

 

There is more than one POV here.

 

If we are talking about $$ value, then that is one facet of the discussion...but it's unfair to combine SA book values with GA book values for this comparison...at least right now it is. Maybe as the decades pass, and the relative time between 1938 and 1961 become smaller this will change...but for now $200K seems to be the magic line for SA books...and any SA book that breaks $100K is an A tier book in by view.

 

There is another facet.

 

Ryan, how can a $100K or $200K book be second tier? I don't understand your logic.

 

They may be ranked in a certain order, but I don't think that would be enough to qualify them as a second tier book.

 

Price is irrelevant in my ranking of 1st Tier, 2nd Tier, etc. books, Roy, just significance. If you look at the upper echelon of books in the hobby across all ages, you can boil it down to just those 5.

 

If we are talking popularity and not dollar value, then a lot of it has to do with simply personal taste, and the first tier of books does not need to be wittle down to 5 books.

 

There are likely 10 or 15 books that I can come up as 1st tier titles because they make up the primary core of many collections. FF is a core title. X-men is a core title. Batman is a core title. ASM is a core title. Superman is a core title. It doesn't get more "core" than these titles, so it just doesn't make sense to me to relegate some of these titles to a second tier.

 

I guess the way I look at it is like this: If I can't see a collection existing without what I consider a "core" title, and if a majority agrees, then to me that is an A tier title.

 

I don't think FF and X-men (or Marvel #1) have gone the way of Whiz and All Star quite yet.

[nearmint]

The Church MC#1 in 9.6 or 9.8 condition is worth millions.

 

You need to take an "s" off of that "millions"...it's debatable that book would reach a million, but two is ludicrous.

I don't know...with verzyl, he might have a buyer at 2 million, making the "s" valid

 

Exactly. If he won't take less than 2M for the AA #16, there's no way he's going to take less than that for MC #1.

[nearmint]

There are likely 10 or 15 books that I can come up as 1st tier titles because they make up the primary core of many collections.

 

(thumbs u