Ongoing storylines you cared NOTHING about

[FFB]

I agree. I enjoyed Jim Shooter's story and thought that Mike Zeck did a great job. I wasn't crazy about Bob Layton's fill-ins on issues 4 and 5, but I really enjoyed the random Art Adams fill-in pages and the rest of the Zeck stuff. Secret Wars 1 was the best megacrossover ever, in my opinion. Granted, megacrossovers are usually vapid, moronic fluff, but I actually enjoyed Secret Wars because Shooter took the time to explore sides to the characters that we hadn't seen before. And his treatment of Dr. Doom was great!

 

I have to say that I think Secret Wars 1 is coming in for some unfair criticism here. Sure it was a blantant mass-marketing plan, but I thought it was a very well done blatant mass-marketing plan.

[FFB]

I've had the Watchmen TPB for about five or six years now. (I bought it during a weak moment in my "no comics" stint.) I have started to read it twice and never made it past the first issue. I'm with you, Darth. Never could see why everyone thought Alan Moore was so great.

 

Watchmen (when it first came out)

 

????

 

Elaborate, please.

 

I'd take some stars away from you if I could, Darth.

 

Rick

 

I just wasn't into the grit of it back then for all the hype surrounding Moore's writing, he is not my cup of tea. Verbosity does not a great writer make....i read it because someone consigned the HC for me to sell

[JohnBull]

Just curious, what ongoing storylines could you have cared less about, even if it was part of your favorite title(s)?

 

For me, it was the Kree-Skrull War. I liked the Skrulls when they were battling the FF, but the K-S War, I could care less what started it, how it was going, when/how it ended - nothing.

 

What are yours?

 

So many to choose from, but the Avengers Michael/Korvac story does stand out.

[read_em-migration]

I've had the Watchmen TPB for about five or six years now. (I bought it during a weak moment in my "no comics" stint.) I have started to read it twice and never made it past the first issue. I'm with you, Darth. Never could see why everyone thought Alan Moore was so great.

 

Watchmen (when it first came out)

 

????

 

Elaborate, please.

 

I'd take some stars away from you if I could, Darth.

 

Rick

 

I just wasn't into the grit of it back then for all the hype surrounding Moore's writing, he is not my cup of tea. Verbosity does not a great writer make....i read it because someone consigned the HC for me to sell

 

! Alan Moore is the greatest (and most important) writer comics has ever produced! Should he have to dumb-down his work so you guys can understand it?

[awe4one]

Inferno was the first to cross my mind as well.....

 

Also,

 

Maximum Security, X-tinction Agenda, the Legacy Virus saga (who cares?), and the granddaddy of bad crossovers, Maximum Carnage (my pick for the worst crossover ever).

 

Jim

[chrisco37]

I've had the Watchmen TPB for about five or six years now. (I bought it during a weak moment in my "no comics" stint.) I have started to read it twice and never made it past the first issue.

 

I had some problems when I first started reading it as well. It's a little hard b/c you don't know the characters, and have no real attachment to them (like you would if you picked up a Spidey trade you'd never read before). But trust me, if you stay with it, the payoff is enormous. One of the alltime great books.

 

Don't like Alan Moore??? Have you read his "Swamp Thing"? "V for Vendetta"? "From Hell"? Read 'Em is correct. He's the best writer the medium has ever seen (Gaiman being a close second based on Sandman alone). 2nd in importance only to Stan Lee (and only b/c he is responsible for the entire MU). Sure, you could argue that the GA creators are more important b/c they "started everything", but come on, Moore crushes them.

 

 

[Illiterati-migration]

I've had the Watchmen TPB for about five or six years now. (I bought it during a weak moment in my "no comics" stint.) I have started to read it twice and never made it past the first issue.

 

I had some problems when I first started reading it as well. It's a little hard b/c you don't know the characters, and have no real attachment to them (like you would if you picked up a Spidey trade you'd never read before). But trust me, if you stay with it, the payoff is enormous. One of the alltime great books.

 

Don't like Alan Moore??? Have you read his "Swamp Thing"? "V for Vendetta"? "From Hell"? Read 'Em is correct. He's the best writer the medium has ever seen (Gaiman being a close second based on Sandman alone). 2nd in importance only to Stan Lee (and only b/c he is responsible for the entire MU). Sure, you could argue that the GA creators are more important b/c they "started everything", but come on, Moore crushes them.

 

 

I fully agree about Alan Moore, but I'm sorry, Gaiman sucks. He does. It's true. His work seems to appeal almost exclusively to teenage girls (and you and Darth). Perhaps he would be more suited to writing Nancy Drew novels...

 

(I base most of this on having read one of his novels and several, but not all, of the Sandman books.)

 

I guess "Good Omens" was okay... but did he actually help write that or did he just do a special preface for the edition I read?

[awe4one]

Well you can lump me in with Chrisco and Darth...

 

Gaiman's Sandman is some great reading! Your comment about his work appealing to teenage girls may have a ring of truth to it as I'm sure they would enjoy it as well. But regardless, I think some of the Sandman TPBs are the best stories done in the 80s/90s.

 

Jim

[chrisco37]

I hear you about the novels. I started "Neverwhere" months ago, and I'm still not past page 100. I can't do too much fantasy (comic books are enough).

 

I'm surprised that you, of all people, haven't read the entire 'Sandman' series. What don't you like about what you've read. It's absolutely fantastic.

 

 

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

I didn't care for any of the storylines which started with the death of Reed Richards.

[Rip]

His work seems to appeal almost exclusively to teenage girls (and you and Darth). Perhaps he would be more suited to writing Nancy Drew novels...

OMG that is one of the funnies comments ever. I don't know if you realize how close to the mark those comments are. Have you ever seen him in person? He's may as well be a member of Duran Duran.

[Zonker]

I'm sorry, Gaiman sucks. He does. It's true. His work seems to appeal almost exclusively to teenage girls

 

I wasn't aware the attendance at WorldCon SF conventions now trended to that demographic.

 

(Gaiman's American Gods won the Hugo award!)

[chrisco37]

I didn't care for any of the storylines which started with the death of Reed Richards.

 

 

Are you talking about '1602'? Reed is alive.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

Are you talking about '1602'? Reed is alive.

 

No, I like 1602. I just didn't like the FF4 stories when Reed disappears or dies. Like when Dr. Doom blew him up in 381.

[chrisco37]

Oh! I see. I thought you were talking about Gaiman stories.

[FFB]

My favorite comic "writer/storyteller" is Frank Miller. Not just because he comes up with engaging stories, but because he has such an amazing knack for visual storytelling. Moore may be a good "writer," but he's nowhere near the storyteller that Frank Miller is. I also think that Miller has a gift for dialogue that few others have. ("Eggs. Eggs. Eggs. Eggs. Eggs. Mondat not Monday." Brilliant stuff.) I'll pick up Watchmen again and force my way through it this time. If my opinion changes, I'll let you know.

 

I've had the Watchmen TPB for about five or six years now. (I bought it during a weak moment in my "no comics" stint.) I have started to read it twice and never made it past the first issue.

 

I had some problems when I first started reading it as well. It's a little hard b/c you don't know the characters, and have no real attachment to them (like you would if you picked up a Spidey trade you'd never read before). But trust me, if you stay with it, the payoff is enormous. One of the alltime great books.

 

Don't like Alan Moore??? Have you read his "Swamp Thing"? "V for Vendetta"? "From Hell"? Read 'Em is correct. He's the best writer the medium has ever seen (Gaiman being a close second based on Sandman alone). 2nd in importance only to Stan Lee (and only b/c he is responsible for the entire MU). Sure, you could argue that the GA creators are more important b/c they "started everything", but come on, Moore crushes them.

 

[Darthdiesel]

! Alan Moore is the greatest (and most important) writer comics has ever produced! Should he have to dumb-down his work so you guys can understand it?

 

I knew this was coming and inevitable from the Moore apologist/"It's cool to like Alan Moore because he's dark and different..not like the other writer hacks in comics today " camp. Let's get this straight - there is enough supplemental material on the 'net about Watchmen and Moore to "get" the book. That wasn't the issue. No one needs to dumb down anything for those who can comprehend. The grittiness of the book just did not appeal to me. It is hard to get through as it does not make me want to read any further due to its relative banality to other comics of the time. It is a matter of personal preference. I don't put down those who liked the book. I read it now and can understand its significance in the whole scheme of comics history...but it is still not a book that I would have felt riveted and wanting for more after reading. How many folks do you know of at the time who were picking up Watchmen just because it was the "new therefore cool" thing to do? These were the same guys mocking those who were picking up their "Marvel and DC are for kids" books. I was put off genuinely more by this elitist attitude from fellow collectors than the unnecessarily verbose dialogue and "high" concepts found within the pages of the comic itself.

 

OH and yeah if you manage to get a hold of Alan Moore, please let him know to talk down to dummies like me and call it Ultimate Watchmen so that I'll buy his tripe and read it!

[Darthdiesel]

I've had the Watchmen TPB for about five or six years now. (I bought it during a weak moment in my "no comics" stint.) I have started to read it twice and never made it past the first issue.

 

I had some problems when I first started reading it as well. It's a little hard b/c you don't know the characters, and have no real attachment to them (like you would if you picked up a Spidey trade you'd never read before). But trust me, if you stay with it, the payoff is enormous. One of the alltime great books.

 

Are you drunk again? Or are you up in Frederick MD hoping your name isn't outed in that prostitution ring "black book"

 

Don't like Alan Moore??? Have you read his "Swamp Thing"? "V for Vendetta"? "From Hell"? Read 'Em is correct. He's the best writer the medium has ever seen (Gaiman being a close second based on Sandman alone). 2nd in importance only to Stan Lee (and only b/c he is responsible for the entire MU). Sure, you could argue that the GA creators are more important b/c they "started everything", but come on, Moore crushes them.

 

no on swampy, did read v for vendetta when it first came out, saw Johnny Depp in From Hell

 

Moore crushes arse... where is this prolific genius? Is he busy pulling a Ditko? Turning his back on the medium that made him the object of drunken fanboy's lusty fantasies. Please let me know when he is done with his childish pout and tantrum act, and tell him to get back to writing some quality material

[awe4one]

[How many folks do you know of at the time who were picking up Watchmen just because it was the "new therefore cool" thing to do? These were the same guys mocking those who were picking up their "Marvel and DC are for kids" books. I was put off genuinely more by this elitist attitude from fellow collectors than the unnecessarily verbose dialogue and "high" concepts found within the pages of the comic itself.

 

I understand exactly where you're coming from.....

 

You could easily replace the word "Watchmen" with many independent comics and the paragraph would still be true.

 

Jim

[Zonker]

My favorite comic "writer/storyteller" is Frank Miller. Not just because he comes up with engaging stories, but because he has such an amazing knack for visual storytelling. Moore may be a good "writer," but he's nowhere near the storyteller that Frank Miller is.

 

Y'know I suspected that's where you were coming from. There is certainly a school of thought that says the most perfect comics will always come from a single writer/artist/storyteller. Examples would be Eisner, Kurtzman, Steranko, Miller, Chaykin. (And to a lesser extent, Simonson, Grell, Byrne.)

 

But I suspect if you surveyed most of our very favorite books you'd find the vast majority of them came from writer/artist teams, such as

Lee & Kirby

O'Neil & Adams

Goodwin & Simonson

Claremont & Byrne

Englehart & Rogers

 

Moore & Anybody rates at the top of that latter list!