Is it likely that the most valuable Comic books will be faked? 0

[Weird Paper]

I do agree with Mark above, though. Counterfeiting original art would probably be less time consuming.

[comicdonna]

I dont know if this has been discussed here before. Every item that is valuable will be faked if its worthwhile (art is the best example). Its just a matter how high are the costs of producing the fake and whats left for profit. Now with the million dollar barrier beeing broken on the top books do you think this will happen? Is it technically possible (to find the old paper stock etc.). Seems to me its not that difficult.

 

If they can counterfeit a dollar bill then they can counterfeit a comic. It wouldn't be all that easy to do as you have to find the right paper stock for both the cover and contents and then recreate the artwork for both and produce accurate colors. I don't think getting all these things right is easy at all and if I were a counterfeiter I would spend a lot more time on easier targets like stamps.

 

A good art forger uses paints and substrates identical to that of the original. For a million-plus dollar upside somebody with the right set of skills could refurbish a vintage webpress and recreate the process, starting with scanning a printed book and stripping it down digitally to the equivalent of black and white line art. Then they cut color in the same way it was done back in the day, using the same palette and formulations. Create the separations... burn plates... formulate inks identical to those used in 1938. This is not inventing anything new.

Print... examine... tweak. Once you have ten or so perfect copies, age them with temperature and light extremes. Would it pass CGC? Who knows. Do they actively examine every tone of every page of a key book? Is forgery even a real consideration with them? It's not a matter of can it be done, it's only a matter of when will it be done.

Let me say, I would never do this. I enjoy not being a criminal. But, I've been in the graphics business all my adult life, so I have considered how it could be done.

Wow!

[aardvark88]

Counterfeiting original art would probably be less time consuming.

 

The current comicLink Focused OA auction lists some "giclees" of prime SA Marvel OA splash pages. Some are already hammering at over $1k each for a hi-quality reprint but no one knows how many "giclees" were made of each splash.

[BOOT]

Counterfeiting original art would probably be less time consuming.

 

The current comicLink Focused OA auction lists some "giclees" of prime SA Marvel OA splash pages. Some are already hammering at over $1k each for a hi-quality reprint but no one knows how many "giclees" were made of each splash.

 

You have a link for any of those? Giclees are basically high-end inkjet prints. Once the scan is made, it can be reproduced as many times as wanted. There is nothing intrinsically rare or unique about them and it's ridiculous that anyone would pay those kind of prices!

[GermanFan]

I think faking OA is technically very easy in comparison to a comic. Take black Ink the right cardboard and maybe a publishers stamp. Most olden age OA doesnt exist anymore so someone can recreate a piece and say that it has been found somewhere.

[GermanFan]

Its not much effort.

[BOOT]

A good art forger uses paints and substrates identical to that of the original. For a million-plus dollar upside somebody with the right set of skills could refurbish a vintage webpress and recreate the process, starting with scanning a printed book and stripping it down digitally to the equivalent of black and white line art. Then they cut color in the same way it was done back in the day, using the same palette and formulations. Create the separations... burn plates... formulate inks identical to those used in 1938. This is not inventing anything new.

Print... examine... tweak. Once you have ten or so perfect copies, age them with temperature and light extremes. Would it pass CGC? Who knows. Do they actively examine every tone of every page of a key book? Is forgery even a real consideration with them? It's not a matter of can it be done, it's only a matter of when will it be done.

Let me say, I would never do this. I enjoy not being a criminal. But, I've been in the graphics business all my adult life, so I have considered how it could be done.

 

I don't think we have to worry about counterfeits any time soon.

 

Getting good line art from a printed comic is next to impossible. This has been the problem with all comic reprint projects where printed comics are used as a source. The black line art information just isn't there.

 

A very dedicated crook could come close, but could never exactly duplicate the original comic. Of course, detecting a good counterfeit would require comparing it to an original, and that could be a problem...

[BB-Gun]

I think faking OA is technically very easy in comparison to a comic. Take black Ink the right cardboard and maybe a publishers stamp. Most olden age OA doesnt exist anymore so someone can recreate a piece and say that it has been found somewhere.

 

I agree. Now if I had a little more talent I could probably sell my Faux Ray for $100,000.

 

[Weird Paper]

A good art forger uses paints and substrates identical to that of the original. For a million-plus dollar upside somebody with the right set of skills could refurbish a vintage webpress and recreate the process, starting with scanning a printed book and stripping it down digitally to the equivalent of black and white line art. Then they cut color in the same way it was done back in the day, using the same palette and formulations. Create the separations... burn plates... formulate inks identical to those used in 1938. This is not inventing anything new.

Print... examine... tweak. Once you have ten or so perfect copies, age them with temperature and light extremes. Would it pass CGC? Who knows. Do they actively examine every tone of every page of a key book? Is forgery even a real consideration with them? It's not a matter of can it be done, it's only a matter of when will it be done.

Let me say, I would never do this. I enjoy not being a criminal. But, I've been in the graphics business all my adult life, so I have considered how it could be done.

 

I don't think we have to worry about counterfeits any time soon.

 

Getting good line art from a printed comic is next to impossible. This has been the problem with all comic reprint projects where printed comics are used as a source. The black line art information just isn't there.

 

A very dedicated crook could come close, but could never exactly duplicate the original comic. Of course, detecting a good counterfeit would require comparing it to an original, and that could be a problem...

Possibilities are based on incentive. No comic reprint project had that kind of monetary upside. Plus, programs like Photoshop are constantly upgrading. I think the talent exists and the incentive exists. And I know the technology exists. Edited May 7, 2010 by Weird Paper

[bluechip]

Are you just joking or is this really happening?

 

Cerebus #1, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles#1, Eerie #1, X-men #94 have already been counterfeited. I have a duplicate copy of All American #16 that is not a terrific reprint but to the average person it would pass as a real comic.

 

What's to stop someone counterfeiting a million dollar book?

 

The only million dollar books so far have been provenanced up the proverbial wazoo. and that will continue to be the case until a million dollars is equivalent to what people have gotten for those fake bronze age and moderns.

[VintageComics]

Are you just joking or is this really happening?

 

Cerebus #1, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles#1, Eerie #1, X-men #94 have already been counterfeited. I have a duplicate copy of All American #16 that is not a terrific reprint but to the average person it would pass as a real comic.

 

What's to stop someone counterfeiting a million dollar book?

 

The only million dollar books so far have been provenanced up the proverbial wazoo. and that will continue to be the case until a million dollars is equivalent to what people have gotten for those fake bronze age and moderns.

 

That's why I think that the lineage of the book is going to be increasingly important...at least for $1MIL books.

 

 

[aardvark88]

boot,

Here is a b/w "giclee" of SA Marvel Ditko OA on comicLink auction. May be reasonable price if only 1 giclee made of each OA splash?

 

http://www.comiclink.com/./auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fsearch%2Easp%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Dditko%26ItemType%3DCA%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%23Item%5F845820&id=845820

[BOOT]

boot,

Here is a b/w "giclee" of SA Marvel Ditko OA on comicLink auction. May be reasonable price if only 1 giclee made of each OA splash?

 

http://www.comiclink.com/./auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fsearch%2Easp%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Dditko%26ItemType%3DCA%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%23Item%5F845820&id=845820

 

Thanks for the link. Here's another one that's at $2,100 already :

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fallsub%2Easp%3FFocused%3D1%26id%3D1398%23Item%5F845819&id=845819

 

I think it's shamefully misleading that ComicLink has these listed in their "Original Art" listings, even with their descriptions. I don't think bidders are reading the full descriptions. There's a thread on this in the Original Art forum: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3995201#Post3995201

 

The giclee is basically a high quality copy. Once someone has the digital file to print the giclee, they can print as many as they want. I didn't see any assurance in that listing that there would only be one print made. "Extremely limited" = ?

 

I don't see any real intrinsic value in a giclee print of original art. The giclee is not an original or unique item - more can always be made. I wouldn't pay more than a slight markup over the cost of producing the print itself.

 

Maybe I'm wrong. Something's worth what someone will pay for it. Maybe collectors will go nuts for giclee prints, but they are nothing but fancy xerox copies.

 

For $650 to $2,100 you can get a nice piece of real original art!

[MrBedrock]

For $650 to $2,100 you can get a nice piece of real original art!

By Ditko?

[BOOT]

For $650 to $2,100 you can get a nice piece of real original art!

By Ditko?

 

For $2,000 I bet you could get Ditko to draw you a new original!

Edited May 7, 2010 by BOOT

[MrBedrock]

For $650 to $2,100 you can get a nice piece of real original art!

By Ditko?

 

For $2,000 I bet you could get Ditko to draw you a new original!

I'm sure he might. But I'm not a big fan of his current work.

[adamstrange]

For $650 to $2,100 you can get a nice piece of real original art!

By Ditko?

There have been very respectable Charlton or pre-hero Marvel pages at that price level, though it's not enough for a Spidey or Dr Strange.

[Juswuh]

 

For $2,000 I bet you could get Ditko to draw you a new original!

 

Plenty of other artists, but not Ditko - he has actually turned down commissions, saying that he's only interested in producing work for publication.

[batman_fan]

There actually has already been a scam detected of forged OA. I believe it was mostly GA stuff that was forged. If I find the link I will post it.

[batman_fan]

Here is the link to the thread from the OA forum

 

forged!