Tintin rules

[stinkininkin]

I admit I don't know the Tintin art market well at all, but the prices realized indicate a continued love of the character and a strong original art market for Tintin. Two "panels" realized almost 300k US, though they appear to be large and are color pieces....

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100530/ap_en_ot/eu_france_tintin_auction

 

Anyone more knowledgeable than me have any observations? I just find it interesting how much respect there is for the art form that exists in Europe, while comics and it's art is generally regarded as quite low brow here (a reputation that is admittedly earned at times).

 

Scott Williams

[Bronty]

I couldn't say but here's another article with some additional info

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100529/ennew_afp/entertainmentartcomicsauctionfrancebelgium_20100529192556

[NelsonAI]

Herge is my favorite graphic novel artist but is virtually unknown in the USA. His Tintin TPBs continue to be sold worldwide and one of the best recognized comic charcters. Great detailed line work and storytelling. It's like an animated version of National Geographic.

 

Herge's Tintin art has always been sought after with record prices being paid. It is a case of supply and demand as the "Estate" probably has in their posession about 90%, (if not more), of all his original art pertaining to the strip and graphic novels. It's rare for any artist to retain that much art.

 

It's no different than Watterson keeping the majority of his Calvin N Hobbes art.

 

With high prices, there are a lot of forgeries. If in doubt, contact the Estate and they will be happy to verify if it's real or a fake.

 

btw - Spielberg had optioned the movie rights for Tintin at one point.

 

Cheers!

N.

[-cryptkeeper-]

Herge is my favorite graphic novel artist but is virtually unknown in the USA. His Tintin TPBs continue to be sold worldwide and one of the best recognized comic charcters. Great detailed line work and storytelling. It's like an animated version of National Geographic.

 

Herge's Tintin art has always been sought after with record prices being paid. It is a case of supply and demand as the "Estate" probably has in their posession about 90%, (if not more), of all his original art pertaining to the strip and graphic novels. It's rare for any artist to retain that much art.

 

It's no different than Watterson keeping the majority of his Calvin N Hobbes art.

 

With high prices, there are a lot of forgeries. If in doubt, contact the Estate and they will be happy to verify if it's real or a fake.

 

btw - Spielberg had optioned the movie rights for Tintin at one point.

 

Cheers!

N.

 

I visited Musée Hergé in december , simply stunning !

for nearly 3 hours , i was back in my childhood

a must do if anyone comes around Brussels

 

Musée Hergé

 

[cheekyj2112]

 

btw - Spielberg had optioned the movie rights for Tintin at one point.

 

Cheers!

N.

 

It's moved on a bit since then. Spielberg is directing the movie to be released in 2011 based on the Secret of the Unicorn and the Crab with the Golden Claws. Features Jamie Bell as Tintin as well as Andy Serkis (Haddock) and Simon Pegg (a Thompson). There's even rumours of a sequel to be directed by Peter Jackson.

 

 

[TheMask-migration]

Two "panels" realized almost 300k US, though they appear to be large and are color pieces....

 

Some further details:

 

The double page from "King Ottokar's Sceptre" were two inked pages. No color pieces. It's from the original first edition, which

was in black and white. They sold for 243,750 Euro, but they were estimated for more (250,000 - 300,000 Euro). When they

speak of a "record", in this case, it means a record value for a "King Ottokar's Sceptre" double page . Although I don't think

there have been many "King Ottokar's Sceptre" pages sold yet.

 

For comparison: last year, one inked page from "The Calculus Affair" sold for 220,000 Euro and one page from "The Castafiora

Emerald", together with its preliminary, sold for 250,000 Euro. These pages contain more panels, but are comparable in size.

 

A second original in this auction was a recently discovered, and until now unknown colour illustration "Tintin and the sea shells".

Estimated between 50,000 - 70,000 Euro, and it sold for 131,250 Euro. This illustration was sold "after a duel by telephone

between two collectors"

 

I just find it interesting how much respect there is for the art form that exists in Europe, while comics and it's art is generally regarded as quite low brow here

The grass is always greener on the other side. It's my impression that top pieces from top American comic artists still sell

for values far bigger then here in Europe, in general.

 

 

 

 

[CollectingFool]

I just find it interesting how much respect there is for the art form that exists in Europe, while comics and it's art is generally regarded as quite low brow here

The grass is always greener on the other side. It's my impression that top pieces from top American comic artists still sell for values far bigger then here in Europe, in general.

 

Let's not confuse money with respect. Scott is correct when he says the art form is more respected in Europe than it is here. Sure, some big prices can be attained here for American comic art but it's not well respected by most non-collectors unless it's in a movie. Sadly, most comic movie scripts would never "cut it" as comics as the plots are simplified and watered down for the masses.

 

 

[bocaratondefense]

The grass is always greener on the other side. It's my impression that top pieces from top American comic artists still sell

for values far bigger then here in Europe, in general.

 

That is interesting to hear. For some reason, I thought prices for the top European comic art far exceed prices for the most valuable American comic art. We have only seen auction prices for American comic art that approach the level of the examples that you have listed above on a handful of occassions.

 

Thank you for the breakdown on the Herge results.

[tth2]

I just find it interesting how much respect there is for the art form that exists in Europe, while comics and it's art is generally regarded as quite low brow here

The grass is always greener on the other side. It's my impression that top pieces from top American comic artists still sell

for values far bigger then here in Europe, in general.

Even in its weakened condition, 243,750 Euros is almost US$300,000. I'm pretty sure that no American comic OA has ever publicly sold for anything close to that.

 

I don't know if any American OA has sold for more than that privately, maybe a Frazetta Famous Funnies OA cover? Any non-Frazetta OA?

[Bronty]

I don't think that's what he's suggesting though Tim... if I interpret his post correctly what he means is that while the very top end Euro pieces might go for a lot, american pieces of good quality go for more, on average, then European pieces of good quality.

 

I.e. the b+ and A- american pieces are more valuable than the euro counterparts

 

while the a+ euro pieces are more valuable than the american counterparts.

 

 

[tth2]

I don't think that's what he's suggesting though Tim... if I interpret his post correctly what he means is that while the very top end Euro pieces might go for a lot, american pieces of good quality go for more, on average, then European pieces of good quality.

 

I.e. the b+ and A- american pieces are more valuable than the euro counterparts

 

while the a+ euro pieces are more valuable than the american counterparts.

 

Without defining what we mean by b+ and A-, and then knowing what b+ and A- European OA goes for, it's impossible to say. When it comes to Tintin OA by Herge, for example, my impression is that when comparing Tintin OA pages to comparable American OA pages by say Kirby or Ditko on their flagship titles, Tintin OA goes for much more than its American OA counterparts.

[Nexus]

I just find it interesting how much respect there is for the art form that exists in Europe, while comics and it's art is generally regarded as quite low brow here

The grass is always greener on the other side. It's my impression that top pieces from top American comic artists still sell

for values far bigger then here in Europe, in general.

Even in its weakened condition, 243,750 Euros is almost US$300,000. I'm pretty sure that no American comic OA has ever publicly sold for anything close to that.

 

I don't know if any American OA has sold for more than that privately, maybe a Frazetta Famous Funnies OA cover? Any non-Frazetta OA?

 

Wally Wood's WEIRD SCIENCE #16 cover sold for $200K almost exactly two years ago:

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1537

 

That's the highest publicly announced comic art sale I can recall (although a good question might be why a "private transaction" garnered a press release).

 

This one is a close second (BATMAN #11 cover for $195K):

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=817&Lot_No=6424

 

I'm sure there are plenty of pieces which would command in the same neighborhood if they were to become available. Which is still, btw, less than 1/2 the difference between a 8.0 and an 8.5 ACTIION #1. If there are buyers who can justify a $500K difference in price over a microscopic defect on a comic book (as determined by a third-party grader), then it's not impossible for something similar to happen with OA. (To clarify, I mean very specific OA...not all OA are the same, just as not all comics are ACTION #1.)

 

 

 

[tth2]

I just find it interesting how much respect there is for the art form that exists in Europe, while comics and it's art is generally regarded as quite low brow here

The grass is always greener on the other side. It's my impression that top pieces from top American comic artists still sell

for values far bigger then here in Europe, in general.

Even in its weakened condition, 243,750 Euros is almost US$300,000. I'm pretty sure that no American comic OA has ever publicly sold for anything close to that.

 

I don't know if any American OA has sold for more than that privately, maybe a Frazetta Famous Funnies OA cover? Any non-Frazetta OA?

 

Wally Wood's WEIRD SCIENCE #16 cover sold for $200K almost exactly two years ago:

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1537

 

That's the highest publicly announced comic art sale I can recall (although a good question might be why a "private transaction" garnered a press release).

 

This one is a close second (BATMAN #11 cover for $195K):

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=817&Lot_No=6424

 

I'm sure there are plenty of pieces which would command in the same neighborhood if they were to become available. Which is still, btw, less than 1/2 the difference between a 8.0 and an 8.5 ACTIION #1. If there are buyers who can justify a $500K difference in price over a microscopic defect on a comic book (as determined by a third-party grader), then it's not impossible for something similar to happen with OA. (To clarify, I mean very specific OA...not all OA is the same, just as not all comics are ACTION #1.)

 

 

This further illustrates the gulf. The examples you're citing are covers, and are well less than $300,000. The Tintin OA that sold for way more (and several months ago the Euro sale price would've translated into more than US$350,000) was not even a cover.

 

Are there any American OA interior pages that could sell for US$300,000?

[Nexus]

Re: European OA...I have a passing knowledge of the European comics scene. But not enough to understand some of the astounding auction results and sales from the last few years. So I've asked some European comics experts for their take. The end of the hobby that collects Herge, Uderzo, Franquin, and the like, is small and dominated by a few wealthy collectors (no big surprise and sounds kinda familiar). The prices achieved are a result of that as well as the aforementioned limited supply (in some cases, extremely limited). Despite talk of international collectors involved in the bidding, it does appear that most of the high-end Franco-Belgian pieces are won by French or Belgian buyers. Similar provincialism doesn't exist in the American OA hobby to any large degree.

 

While much of European OA values are driven by nostalgia (as with American OA), that provincialism also appears to play a significant part. There are reports of French moguls involved in bidding in the last couple of big auctions...new entrants who don't share the same nostalgia, but are drawn to the OA as important Franco-Belgian artifacts. Whether this continues remains to be seen, but I don't foresee a day when American collectors are buying American OA out of nationalism or a sense of patriotic duty.

 

So...European OA and American OA are not apples-to-apples. There may be an American OA interior that could sell for $300K (AF #15 comes to mind), but not with the regularity that European OA seems to achieve at that level.

[Nexus]

For those interested, the catalog to an upcoming auction:

 

http://www.petitspapiers.be/auctions/catalogues/millon_20062010.pdf

 

Check out the estimates for Franquin, Uderzo, and Pratt. Also noteworthy are the impressive Moebius and Manara offerings along with the inclusion of American OA. Lots of cool stuff, enjoy!

[tth2]

Similar provincialism doesn't exist in the American OA hobby to any large degree.

Thanks for the info, Felix. Very interesting.

 

This statement from you was interesting, though, and I'm not sure I really agree. After all, are there any major OA collectors who are not from the US, UK or Canada? Wouldn't that be the English-language provincial equivalent of France-Belgium?

[chromium]

I'm not a major collector, I have a few Kirbys, my Watchmen page, about 10 pages from Marvel Bronze Age artists... before I sold a bunch of pages last year I don't think my collection was worth over $20K ...but as a European I can't stand European art, can't stand European comic books...it's all superhero for me. Ironically that's exactly what most European comic fans and comic art collectors dislike and is deemed highly inferior over here. So you can imagine I don't have a lot of friends this side of the Atlantic

But I do love Tintin and Hergé though...but that could be national pride speaking, just like the reason why I love the Smurfs.

[chromium]

 

Wally Wood's WEIRD SCIENCE #16 cover sold for $200K almost exactly two years ago:

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/press-release.zx?releaseId=1537

 

That's the highest publicly announced comic art sale I can recall (although a good question might be why a "private transaction" garnered a press release).

 

This one is a close second (BATMAN #11 cover for $195K):

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=817&Lot_No=6424

 

I'm sure there are plenty of pieces which would command in the same neighborhood if they were to become available. Which is still, btw, less than 1/2 the difference between a 8.0 and an 8.5 ACTIION #1. If there are buyers who can justify a $500K difference in price over a microscopic defect on a comic book (as determined by a third-party grader), then it's not impossible for something similar to happen with OA. (To clarify, I mean very specific OA...not all OA is the same, just as not all comics are ACTION #1.)

 

In March 2008 a Tintin cover from 1932 sold for a little over one million dollars at a Paris auction.Which still is the highest price paid for any piece of comic art.

 

Strangely enough all the major pieces at last month's auction were bought by Belgian collectors.

[Nexus]

Similar provincialism doesn't exist in the American OA hobby to any large degree.

Thanks for the info, Felix. Very interesting.

 

This statement from you was interesting, though, and I'm not sure I really agree. After all, are there any major OA collectors who are not from the US, UK or Canada? Wouldn't that be the English-language provincial equivalent of France-Belgium?

 

I rushed out that last post, and in reading it over, I can see where parts are confusing or even nonsensical. My bad.

 

What I meant: It seems that French/Belgian collectors buy Franco-Belgian OA for their cultural significance and out of regional pride. I don't believe those factors come into play much in American OA collecting. I've never heard of any American collectors shelling out the big bucks for a piece of American OA just because it's American (or to keep a non-American from buying it).

 

To answer your question, there are many collectors of American OA not from the US, UK, or Canada. Mostly from Europe (France, Germany/Austria, Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Scandanavia) and I would consider many of them to be major collectors. There are also collectors spread out in other parts of the world (Australia and Singapore come to mind). When I sell on eBay, I only allow US bidders due to some problems I've had in the past with overseas transactions. I will approve non-US bidders if they contact me first. For my art auctions, I've had interested parties write from all over, including some unexpected places. Very few have won, but the interest is there. Just an observation.

[TheMask-migration]

if I interpret his post correctly what he means is that while the very top end Euro pieces might go for a lot, american pieces of good quality go for more, on average, then European pieces of good quality.

 

Yes, more or less.

First of all, you shouldn't take Herge art as the norm. The sad thing is, that when comic art gets it to

the media here, in 95% of the cases it's about Herge and Tintin.

And there's always the question "how honest are those public sales?"

There is a Dutch Tintin collector who is keeping a blog and who made it a few times to the news (after all,

it's about Tintin) He had a few posts some time ago about the possibility that Moulinsart preferred to buy

anonymously items on a public sale instead of directly from the seller. Reason would be the free worldwide

media-attention that would accompany the auction. The items in question were letters from Herge. The seller

first contacted Moulinsart, but they weren't interested, after which the letters were sold on an auction to

"an anonymous bidder".

The blogger was contacted by the lawyers from Moulinsart who "kindly persuaded him" to stop writing about

these sort of things.

 

But back to OA in Europe.

 

I've stopped using ebay for collecting OA, but during the time I did buy on ebay, I've never seen prices as

high here in Belgium/France as I've seen them on the American ebay-site

 

Same with the online comic art galleries.

Certainly, the majority of comic art you find on American art galleries are mostly cheaper than the majority

of the art you find on Belgian and French galleries. But the top prices in American online galleries are mostly

much higher then the top prices here. The highs and the lows you find in online galleries in America are much

more extreme then here in Belgium and France. That's just my impression.

 

 

Scott is correct when he says the art form is more respected in Europe than it is here.

Well, sorry to say, but if you mention this here in Belgium or France, or make any comments about prices here

vs prices in the US, you get as answer "Well, yes, but American comic art is in no way comparable to European

(Franco Belgian) art. American comic art is in general of lesser quality, there is way much more american art

produced then Franco Belgian. American comic art is made in teams/studio's. It's done rapidly, ..."

(Don't shoot me for this, I only repeat what (some) sellers and collectors are telling here.)

 

Sure, some big prices can be attained here for American comic art but it's not well respected by most non-collectors unless it's in a movie.

I see no reason to assume that most european non-collectors have more respect for comic art then their

American counterparts. (unless it's Tintin art)

 

Even in its weakened condition, 243,750 Euros is almost US$300,000. I'm pretty sure that no American comic OA has ever publicly sold for anything close to that.

But on the other side, you have comics that sell for more than a million dollars. Which make us look in envy

to America.

 

What I meant: It seems that French/Belgian collectors buy Franco-Belgian OA for their cultural significance and out of regional pride.

It is also said that they are bought by businessman purely as an investment (without doubt to give it more

prestige)

A couple of months ago a seller of Herge art said that "Herge art adds in value with 10-20% every year", while

standing next to a double page of Tintin which is estimated for 300,000 Euro. Last page was sold for 243,750

so it seems we might have a dip .

 

You can see the interview here (in dutch and french, between 02:34 - 04:47)

 

 

Strangely enough all the major pieces at last month's auction were bought by Belgian collectors.

Some wealthy collectors we have here, in this small country, don't you think?