A fun project...

[ScarFace-migration]

Don't look any other dealer with a straight face then either as their grades are much less strict on average than CGG.

A lot of dealers are much less strict on average than a pet monkey, so I'm not sure that makes much of a point.

 

(And before BlazingBob comes in here and bites my nads off...he's not included in the above statement).

 

[garthgantu]

I disagree. There are plenty of people on here that watch like hawks for any CGC discrepency to post. And I don't doubt that mistakes happen from all the grading companies...but it seems to happen a disproportionate amount of the time given the number of books that each has graded.

 

This is beautiful. Scarface, you're the first person to 'call people' on such statements, demanding "proof" or "evidence" !! But now you're going to toss out "it seems to happen a disproportionate amount of the time given the number of books each has graded." !! Come on, big boy, break out the numbers to support this statement!

[ScarFace-migration]

This is beautiful. Scarface, you're the first person to 'call people' on such statements, demanding "proof" or "evidence" !! But now you're going to toss out "it seems to happen a disproportionate amount of the time given the number of books each has graded." !! Come on, big boy, break out the numbers to support this statement!

Sure thing. Just as soon as you and your buddy show the proof for the statement I was responding to:

 

"With CGC, no one wants to bite the hand that feeds them, that's why you don't hear of more problems. If trust is lost in their product, the dealers lose big $$$$$ and the hobby suffers as well. Nobody except comic-keys wants that. That's why you don't hear about more mistakes."

 

As soon as you find it, be sure to post it.

 

I'll wait here and try to figure out what you were smoking when you graded that book a Fine.

[drbanner]

Take a look at the Hulk 1 restored that I have on ebay right now. I graded that copy 4.5 to 5.0 at best. I had a feeling that CGC might certify it 5.5 because of the page quality and sure enough. That's why grading is subjective.

 

You're not kidding...when I look at that 5.5 and my 6.0, I see a world of difference, not just a single grade step!?!? I think I got dinged for missing the deadline for renewing my subscription to CGC Acolytes quarterly...it's either that or my constant CGC-bashing and conspiracy spawning???

 

I curiously await my first CGG book which was purchased recently...

[greggy]

[garthgantu]

This is beautiful. Scarface, you're the first person to 'call people' on such statements, demanding "proof" or "evidence" !! But now you're going to toss out "it seems to happen a disproportionate amount of the time given the number of books each has graded." !! Come on, big boy, break out the numbers to support this statement!

 

Sure thing. Just as soon as you and your buddy show the proof for the statement I was responding to

 

So the answer is, you don't have any. Never mind the statement you were responding to - that may be a false statement, I don't know...I didn't write it. But for someone who's always so adamant that claims made on these boards be backed up with fact, you sure are quick to deflect such requests when they're made of you...

[Rip]

Pass over the popcorn.....

[ScarFace-migration]

So the answer is, you don't have any. Never mind the statement you were responding to - that may be a false statement, I don't know...I didn't write it. But for someone who's always so adamant that claims made on these boards be backed up with fact, you sure are quick to deflect such requests when they're made of you...

You're getting desperate, Mr. Magoo.

 

His statement was given as a fact as to what's happening. In my statement, I clearly said that it "seems" to be happening...but keep trying...someone's bound to believe you sooner or later.

 

P.S. I still haven't figured out what you were smoking when you graded that book a Fine.

[JohnBull]

Busting our chops?

[Darthdiesel]

Every once in a while, a CGC vs. CGG type thread gets going around here, and one of the questions that keeps popping up is whether or not CGG commands that same kind of "slab premium" as CGC.

 

The answer seems to be "Yes!" with a few caveats.

 

actually, that answer would be more like a

MAYBE!

[Darthdiesel]

The 20% CGC submission discount you can get from many places only helps CGC's case with the 1975-1977 books. CGG offers varying monthly specials. Just so nobody thinks I'm not being fair, I didn't include any discounts for anybody.

 

Can't discount the "discount" - totally skews your results.... and therefore your conclusions....

[garthgantu]

P.S. I still haven't figured out what you were smoking when you graded that book a Fine.

 

Please enlighten me, ScarFace - what IS the grade on that Avengers 1 that I made such a fool of myself on, by saying it was FN-/FN ? Just for posterity, it would be nice to get your take... do you have one?

[Zanarkand]

Adjusted for fee differences:

846 CGG sales went for less than the CGCs - 49.39%

13 CGG and CGC sales were identical - 0.76%

854 CGG sales went for more than the CGCs - 49.85%

 

Comes out slightly in CGG's favor.

Not so fast, slick Willy. You mentioned the average final CGG sale price was only $49.55...so these "adjusted" figures wouldn't mean beans if the 854 CGG books only sold for a couple more dollars on average than their CGC counterparts, while the 846 CGC books sold for significant amounts on average more than their CGG counterparts.

 

Actually no, it doesn't matter. If you have Amazing Spider-Man #12 in VG/F, you can tell by the data that in four past sales over the last 8 months, the book has always sold for more CGG'd than CGC'd.

Same as if you had ASM #14 in VG-. You can tell that one always sells for more CGC'd than CGG'd. To maximize your final sale prices, a smart bet would be to send #12 to CGG and #14 to CGC. CGG gets you more for #12, CGC gets you more for #14. Why do you care how much more? More is more.

 

But since you asked, books that sold for more CGC'd sold for an average $21.55 more. Books that sold for more CGG'd sold for an average $16.48 more. Both figures adjusted.

 

To illustrate, imagine if you sent 100 books all to CGC (or all to CGG; doesn't matter). 49 of them will realize higher final sale prices than if you had sent them to CGG, an average $21.55 more. But, 50 of your books would have gotten you more had you sent them to CGG, an average $16.48 more. 1 book will bring the same either way.

 

49 books x $21.55 margin each = $1055.95, and 50 books x -$16.48 margin lost each = -$824. Congrats, you just made $231.95, or about $2.32 margin per book.

 

Wouldn't it have been smarter to send 50 to CGC and 50 to CGG, whichever company can bring the highest realized price? $1879.95 margin there!

 

And I'm not buying your reason for so easily dismissing the 20% discount that you can get off of CGC submissions. The 20% discount is always available and could have a significant impact on the figures you gave...especially if the CGG books that sold at an "adjusted" premium only did so by a small amount. What are the "varying monthly specials" from CGG that you mentioned?

 

And why do you say the discount only helps CGC's case with the 1975-1977 books? When dealing with "adjusted" figures, the discount would help at all levels.

 

I didn't just make it up, y'know. I just sort of thought it would be apparent.

 

Ok, so I guess we'll work it out.

 

$4000 - $5000 FMV (CGG Next Day tier stops at $5G):

CGG charges $40, CGC charges 2.5%, which can be $100 - $125. After 20% discount, $80 - $100.

 

$1500 - $4000 FMV (CGG Next Day vs. CGC Express):

CGG charges $40, CGC charges $79. After 20% discount, $63.20.

 

$1000 - $1500 FMV (CGG Classic vs. CGC Express still):

CGG charges $22, CGC charges $79. After 20% discount, $63.20.

 

$300 - $1000 FMV (CGG Classic vs. CGC Standard):

CGG charges $22, CGC charges $49. After 20% discount, $39.20.

 

$250 - $300 FMV (CGG Standard vs. CGC Standard):

CGG charges $14, CGC charges $49. After 20% discount, $39.20.

 

<$250 FMV (CGG Standard vs. CGC Economy):

CGG charges $14, CGC charges $29. After 20% discount, $23.20.

 

Modern tiers:

 

CGG modern tier starts at 1978, CGC's starts at 1975. So assuming the FMV is under $200 (same for both companies, otherwise you have to use a higher tier),

 

1978 - present: CGG charges $10, CGC charges $16 ($15 for 10 or more books). After 20% discount, $12.80 ($12).

 

1975 - 1977: (CGG counts as Standard, CGC is still Modern): CGG charges $14, CGC charges $16 ($15 for 10 or more books). After 20% discount, $12.80 ($12).

 

Clearly, that's the only tier that costs less.

 

 

That convinces me. All my lower dollar, less than VF+ stuff worth slabbing is going to CGG.

Doesn't convince me at all. What happens to the value they do have if CGG folds 6 months or a year from now?....a scenario far more likely to happen to them than to CGC.

 

Oh, please.

 

That's not even taking into account the mid/low grade Avengers #1 that they horribly overgraded.

 

Correct. Nor is it taking into account the Batman 11 where CGC missed all the resto. That's the beauty of pure sales figures. They don't take into account anyone's opinion of the product per se. They're just what, at the end of the day, a person paid.

[FFB]

Come on, Quality. No way does a FN book have a 2 1/4 inch corner crease, plus all of the tears and stress damage to the spine. No way. Find me a book in the Overstreet Grading Guide that is 6.0 or better with those attributes. That book is a 4.0, no better.

 

The Av 1 is a solid FN. After submitting 200 books, they graded 5 books higher than me. This one was one of them. CGC gives gifts as well and more often than 5 per 200. Examples are easy to come by. Anyone can pull one or two books and say that the company can't grade. I can do the same with CGC.

 

I think CGG has a long way to go to establish the trust in the marketplace that CGC has established, but with CGC's long turnaround times and higher prices, CGG will make quick inroads into the less expensive Silver and Bronze.

[ScarFace-migration]

P.S. I still haven't figured out what you were smoking when you graded that book a Fine.

 

Please enlighten me, ScarFace - what IS the grade on that Avengers 1 that I made such a fool of myself on, by saying it was FN-/FN ? Just for posterity, it would be nice to get your take... do you have one?

Yes, my take is that it's nowhere near a Fine...but keep reaching.

[gpanalysis]

You need to make sure you're comparing the right prices. I'll take just one example.

 

Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #136 1974 (9.2)

v1 p1 Marvel Comics this sale as of: Oct 2003 $108.50

90.99 +17.51 Jan 2004

75.90 +32.60 Dec 2003

122.50 -14.00 Oct 2003

91.03 +17.47 Sep 2003

 

The only value you can compare from the values above is the October 2003 CGC sale as that is when the CGG sale occured. Without CGG sales for the other dates, you just don't know how the comparison would fair.

[qualitycomix]

It's not a corner crease, although it looks like one. There is color loss there, but it's actually a surface impression, not a crease. Yes, a 2 1/4" corner crease CANNOT be a FN. Scans can be deceiving. I'm done talking about this book.

[FFB]

Maybe it was pressed out? It's still a long line of color loss that doesn't belong on a FN, especially with those dozens of spine stresses and spine tears.

 

One other thing -- if you agree that the book was overgraded, then why didn't you say so in the auction listing?

 

I will talk about this book all damn day.

 

It's not a corner crease, although it looks like one. There is color loss there, but it's actually a surface impression, not a crease. Yes, a 2 1/4" corner crease CANNOT be a FN. Scans can be deceiving. I'm done talking about this book.

[gpanalysis]

Please re-check with the previous suggestion from Rich. You need to check prices against similar sell dates. Also, we're talking 800 sales since May 2003. AND I suspect there will never be any reasonable sales figures to compare to.

 

Why do you guys think we haven't bothered to include cgg sales into our product? We contacted cgg a few times to see if we could get information about their grading, holder and how they look for restoration - nada! Also, we haven't done it in the pricing just provided, but when you do an extensive search in GPAnalysis against almost every cgg sale that "looks" to have received a premium result, you realize it just doesn't fit the CGC trend - why is that? How can a company with only 800 sales to its name, with no information about who they are and how they grade be getting premium prices for some books.

 

We have the ability to track ANY graded prices. Including cgg and 3pg. But we made the decision early on that our product will only analyze CGC sales due to their integrity, industry-standing and overwhelming acceptance as THE grading service for comics. The prices realized for CGC books as a whole support the above.

 

GP

[Rickdogg]

Please re-check with the previous suggestion from Rich. You need to check prices against similar sell dates. Also, we're talking 800 sales since May 2003. AND I suspect there will never be any reasonable sales figures to compare to.

 

Why do you guys think we haven't bothered to include cgg sales into our product? We contacted cgg a few times to see if we could get information about their grading, holder and how they look for restoration - nada! Also, we haven't done it in the pricing just provided, but when you do an extensive search in GPAnalysis against almost every cgg sale that "looks" to have received a premium result, you realize it just doesn't fit the CGC trend - why is that? How can a company with only 800 sales to its name, with no information about who they are and how they grade be getting premium prices for some books.

 

We have the ability to track ANY graded prices. Including cgg and 3pg. But we made the decision early on that our product will only analyze CGC sales due to their integrity, industry-standing and overwhelming acceptance as THE grading service for comics. The prices realized for CGC books as a whole support the above.

 

GP

 

 

You should contact a seller in Oregon for details on some of their grading criteria