KirbyJack Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 10 Marvel keys? FF 1 TOS 39 TTA 27 AF 15 XMen 1 JIM 83 DD 1 AVNG 4 ST 110 Hulk 1 My personal list includes these plus Avengers 1, Sgt. Fury 1, ASM 1, and Fantastic Four 4. 1950's war comics and FoggyNelson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhamlau Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 On 6/9/2017 at 9:10 PM, KirbyJack said: 10 Marvel keys? FF 1 TOS 39 TTA 27 AF 15 XMen 1 JIM 83 DD 1 AVNG 4 ST 110 Hulk 1 My personal list includes these plus Avengers 1, Sgt. Fury 1, ASM 1, and Fantastic Four 4. Good List, its almost identical to mine. When I say 10 Keys, this is my list. Some don't do Strange Tales 110 or Avengers 1, but to me they are canon. If I had to switch any out I might drop the 110 for Amazing Spider-Man 1, but its just off to me. It's not a major first like "First Avengers" which to me counts conceptually as a major first. My 2nd Tier would have ASM 1, Sgt Fury 1, and Avengers 4. 1. Amazing Fantasy 15 2. Incredible Hulk 1 3. Journey Into Mystery 83 4. Tales to Astonish 27 5. The X-Men 1 6. Tales of Suspense 39 7. Daredevil 1 8. Fantastic Four 1 9. Avengers 1 (its my favorite book of the silver age) 10. Strange Tales 110 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyJack Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 That was my way of making a list of ten Marvel keys using consistent criteria. For me personally, to have the biggies you need the 14! FoggyNelson and 1950's war comics 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhamlau Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 13 hours ago, KirbyJack said: That was my way of making a list of ten Marvel keys using consistent criteria. For me personally, to have the biggies you need the 14! Your top 14 my list+2nd tier+FF 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyJack Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 6 hours ago, zhamlau said: Your top 14 = my list+2nd tier+FF 4? Yep! 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SECollector Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Hi guys! I have been wondering about the actual level of "rarity" of TTA27 compared with other big SA books like Hulk 1 or AF15. Looking at the CGC census the total number of graded copies are 815 compared to 2724 (AF15) and 1417 (IH1). Where do these differences depend on your opinion? Have fewer samples actually survived? Was the printing run lower or is it just the fact that the book (or Hank Pym) is less popular, leading to fewer copies ending up to CGC while more are still left ungraded? I know that the answer is probably based on assumptions (except maybe the printing runs that are probably known facts), but what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhamlau Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 I would imagine its smaller census pop is due to a few reasons 1. Smaller print run (newest/least popular BEM book, issue came at the end of the entire product line and concept). 2. 2nd Tier Character 3. Lower per grade value Heck, the fact that it was a smaller profit margin 10cent book instead of a 12 might even play a part in limiting its print run. Or that it was a conversion issue that wasn't on face value part of the big marvel superhero re-brand and therefore might have had a smaller print-run and overall collector love (I think when those first reprint collections that came out in the 60's would show all the other keys like ToS39, AF15, and JIM83 but for Antman would show TTA35 instead of 27 again causing this book to not be as loved/cherished from day 1 as the other mega keys). Its funny I just bought a nice copy and here I am denigrating it, but you asked so here is my view. 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SECollector Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, zhamlau said: I would imagine its smaller census pop is due to a few reasons 1. Smaller print run (newest/least popular BEM book, issue came at the end of the entire product line and concept). 2. 2nd Tier Character 3. Lower per grade value Heck, the fact that it was a smaller profit margin 10cent book instead of a 12 might even play a part in limiting its print run. Or that it was a conversion issue that wasn't on face value part of the big marvel superhero re-brand and therefore might have had a smaller print-run and overall collector love (I think when those first reprint collections that came out in the 60's would show all the other keys like ToS39, AF15, and JIM83 but for Antman would show TTA35 instead of 27 again causing this book to not be as loved/cherished from day 1 as the other mega keys). Its funny I just bought a nice copy and here I am denigrating it, but you asked so here is my view. Thanks for the input! And congrats on your acquisition. Its a huge book nevertheless (and I have actually just purchased a copy too lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine48 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) And it was really a try out book.We could be talking about Bee Boy. Edited June 18, 2017 by porcupine48 zhamlau 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 6 hours ago, porcupine48 said: And it was really a try out book.We could be talking about Bee Boy. While this is factual (all the Stan stories you read about this say that fan mail prompted them to look at the character again; yes, Suspense 32 similarly got some mail, but nothing like this -- the story is always something like that) the fact in no way diminishes the book's importance. It's important because it's the first Hank Pym, and he's as major a non-solo title-carrying character as there is at Marvel. He's like Martian Manhunter for DC; doesn't carry a book long but a lynchpin character for decades. (Pym moreso, really). He's the wellspring for Giantman,the Wasp, Ultron, Yellowjacket, Egghead, Black Goliath, Scott Lang, the Vision, Sons of the Serpent. I'm probably forgetting something else that's derivative of Pym as a character. As to its actual relative scarcity, if you were collecting pre-Internet, you probably experienced this book as almost apocryphal among SA Marvel keys as it was a very tough to come across compared to all the others. There's something about the lack of a costume and hero name that causes some people to want to overlook the book, but it is Hank Pym's intro, and Stan does come back to him in a big way a few months later to weave him into everything. Hank Pym in total is far important than any one of his incarnations; that is the biggest difference from most other first appearances. 1950's war comics, SECollector, porcupine48 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyJack Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Very well put! I could nitpick the math on the Suspense 32, but I won't. I quite liked the Martian Manhunter analogy; hadn't heard that one before! 1950's war comics and FoggyNelson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Readcomix Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, KirbyJack said: Very well put! I could nitpick the math on the Suspense 32, but I won't. I quite liked the Martian Manhunter analogy; hadn't heard that one before! Thank you, sir! The math on the relative letters? I could be off; its just how I remember reading it. That's the general gist, though, right? Both got fan response; I thought man in the ant-hill got much more? Edited June 18, 2017 by Readcomix Typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhamlau Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) So I was curious so I did some research. I compared the current CGC census for (my) top 10 marvel books, it confirmed what I suspected. TTA27 is far and away the lowest graded of the keys. Because this book has always been on the radar as one of the most important marvel books and its stood up in grade as one of the most expensive marvel books, I believe that people aren't holding this book and avoiding grading/grading fees. If you own this book in unrestored/complete condition (and you grade books LOL) you would grade this. This tells me this book just doesn't exist in the numbers other marvel keys do. For scale I also added all copies in 6.0+. Normally I would do 5.0+ as Collector Grade (childish reason really, has "fine" in it or better in the description so to me that was always the cut off lol) but figured straight up 6.0 FINE would be a good baseline. Interesting story this tells. I filtered by highest number graded to lowest for illustration purposes. Dont know if this list exists elsewhere but does now as of this morning :-) Edited June 18, 2017 by zhamlau Pic didnt save at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SECollector Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) I am in. I grabbed this the other day together with my JIM83. Edited August 28, 2017 by SECollector alexgross.com and zhamlau 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassemble Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I'm so happy to join this club! I never thought that I'd have the opportunity to own a copy of this book. I always told comic friends that I needed (whatever) issues for the TTA #35-69 run, never thinking a #27 was even possible. Well, I was fortunate that a dealer friend was selling some TTAs for another friend at Heroes Con. I made the best offer I could make (I'm not a high roller by any means), and he accepted. It's not the prettiest copy, but it's complete and the staples and centerfold are firmly attached. zhamlau, Readcomix and grebal 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SECollector Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 42 minutes ago, sassemble said: I'm so happy to join this club! I never thought that I'd have the opportunity to own a copy of this book. I always told comic friends that I needed (whatever) issues for the TTA #35-69 run, never thinking a #27 was even possible. Well, I was fortunate that a dealer friend was selling some TTAs for another friend at Heroes Con. I made the best offer I could make (I'm not a high roller by any means), and he accepted. It's not the prettiest copy, but it's complete and the staples and centerfold are firmly attached. Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyJack Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 CGC won't love it, but I do! Nice score; especially on a tight comic budget! FoggyNelson and 1950's war comics 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhamlau Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 9 hours ago, sassemble said: I'm so happy to join this club! I never thought that I'd have the opportunity to own a copy of this book. I always told comic friends that I needed (whatever) issues for the TTA #35-69 run, never thinking a #27 was even possible. Well, I was fortunate that a dealer friend was selling some TTAs for another friend at Heroes Con. I made the best offer I could make (I'm not a high roller by any means), and he accepted. It's not the prettiest copy, but it's complete and the staples and centerfold are firmly attached. Its a fine copy, its complete, and its a mega key that fills the run....Hell of a score, good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadzukes Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Hey, it's got it's problems, but it also has some nice parts. The spine is actually very nice and NO marvel chipping. Do you suppose there's a way to get rid of those rust stains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamtoreal1 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 two birds with one shot! Jim83 and tta27! SC22 and zhamlau 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...