Future of Comic Book Collecting

[Rickdogg]

Matt,

 

Ultimate X-men #1-6 is pretty awesome! Once it hits the weapon X storyline with issue #7 the title takes a major dump and still sux all the way to issue #25. Ultimate Spidey has always been good, check it out.

[fantastic_four]

Yep, Ultimate Spidey rocks. I've read 1 through 28 with no disappointment what-so-ever. When Bendis and/or Bagley leave that title I'm gonna cry. It's the best read I've had since getting back into comics following the X-Men movie in 2000.

[dam60]

I thought that USM 32 was really good! Every issue of USM just gets better. Great art and storytelling, the way a comic should be!

[Rickdogg]

Yup, honestly I thought the title would suck since it is basically re-telling the original story with a modern twist, but I love it! We need more moderns like this to keep the comic business afloat just a while longer.

[fantastic_four]

I haven't read past USM 28 because I'm more or less in agreement with Martin Goodman's comment to Stan Lee when Stan wanted to do multi-issue stories--people don't remember what happened in the previous month's installment by the time a month has elapsed for the next issue to come out. Continuity is hard to follow with little installments over the course of months.

 

I stack up issues until a story arc is done, then read them all in one or two sittings. The previous issue summary Marvel puts on the splash pages now is a nice idea but unnecessary for my reading pattern.

 

[cansecofan]

One thing is that today's comics are not for kids like they once were. All the half naked chics and stuff don't do well with most parents of kids. I did see that Disney is going to have new comics out again soon!!!! This would help bring kids into the stores as the parents would feel safe with Jr. reading Mickey or Donald.

 

-Adam

[chrisco37]

Bonds -

 

Get off the computer right now and go grab a stack of Preacher books!!!! This is EASILY the best book of the 90's. You will be hooked! After reading the first TPB, I ran out and bought the rest. The story gets better and better. Lots of Twisted Fun!

 

Ultimate Spidey is a great read too. I haven't been disappointed yet (although the last Goblin story dragged a bit). I loved issue #27 or 28 (can't remember the #), but Peter is trying to get out of school to go fight the Rhino but keeps running into obstacles (school security, etc.). When he finally gets to the crime-scene, Iron Man has already captured the Rhino. Very funny filler issue.

 

Chris

[Kevin Boyd]

I still think the future of comic book collecting isn't really going to change much. People will still be looking for back issues, et al. There will just be fewer of them each year as fewer and fewer people enter the hobby. Nowadays the entry level for a new reader/collector is when they are in their 20s, while when I was a kid in the 1970's it was the 7-10 age bracket. Comics do hold some appeal to older teens and young adults as that is the primary market for this material.

 

The future of the COMIC BOOK is much more bleak. I don't think the 32-page pamphlet is economically feasible any longer as it costs too much to produce for a dwindling sales base. I've gone into this before in other threads, but if anything, the monthly american comic book (32 page format) has become the preview or "theatrical release" for the upcoming special edition DVD release - that nice collected edition that will always be around in print for quick and easy reading and a source of revenue for the publisher for years to come.

 

The monthly comic gets a week before it gets shoved aside for the next week's releases, just as theatrical releases are all about that first week's revenues. With movies, each week you have a mix of your big flashy money grabbing releases, your mid-level earners, your bombs that still earn a decent revenue on video and your small independant films. With comics, the mid-level earners and bombs are rarely reprinted - but who knows they might actually have a shelf life as collected editions.

 

Remember the song "Video killed the Radio Star"? Well, having a better alternative format is killing what's left of the comic book.

 

Other parallels would be LPs/Cassettes vs. CDs. Who buys LPs? Well, LP collectors do. The rest of us prefer to buy our favourite albums on CDs or just burn them off the web.

 

I still think the art form will survive, because I believe it still has a place, but the format is on the way out.

 

The next evolution, they say is comics on the web. Not as they are now, I'm afraid. What I see as being the next evolution of comics is doing back catalog print on demand. Once the back catalogue has been scanned and archived they should be able to compile archives/masterworks/essential volumes/tpbs to order directly from the company website or through Amazon (or *shudder* Diamond).

 

From what I understand, Marvel has plans to release the entire remastered Marvel Masterworks line next year thru their book distribution deal, and it will be available for reordering at any time, just as DC has the line of Archives available for reordering.

 

Kev

 

[BachelorOfComix]

There is no future, the future is now.

 

Cheers,

 

Bachelor of Comics

[lighthouse]

One of the biggest reasons you don't see kids in comic stores is that no part of the market sees them as important. Retailers don't care whether kids read comics because they frankly don't plan to be around long enough to see those kids as 'real' customers. Distributors don't care because they don't see kids comics as a 'growth' market. Why invest time and money on kid's comics when you can just pitch them more toys? Publishers don't care because they are unwilling to take risks on new product lines after being burned by low orders from retailers, who had been burned themselves by the same publishers in the past.

 

There has been a lengthy discussion about this topic on some of the retailer industry forums, and while the 'good' retailers, like Graham Crackers, Comix Experience and Flying Colors, are actively lobbying for more kid-friendly titles, there are lots more retailers that don't see comics as being profitable in the first place. They make their money on games and toys and they won't support a new line of kid's comics.

 

The theoretical development of a comic customer from kid reading Archie to teen reading X-Men to adult reading Sandman to collector looking for hi-grade Silver Age FF just does not exist anymore... Many of us here are the product of such a transition. But that model no longer applies, and has not for many years.

 

A future of comic book collecting based on kids growing up reading comics is not possible. Market pressures will prevent any such future from ever coming to pass. What is possible, is a future where collectors are first introduced to comics around age 16, and become hooked on them in high school and college. I have many customers who never read a comic before they turned 16. And they are rabid collectors. They didn't buy them because Mom brought them home from the grocery store. They buy comics because someone they think is cool told them comics were cool.

 

Peer pressure is among the strongest motivators in retail. Does anyone really think a pair of Air Jordans are worth $150? Or that JNCO jeans are worth $70? I bet I have a dozen subscribers who started liking comics because of Johnny The Homicidal Maniac. Because someone they wanted to impress told them Johnny was cool. Now they buy JLA, Ultimate Spider-Man, and Daredevil. Sandman trades get passed around college campuses faster than the phone number of a loose Tri-Delt...

 

The future of comic book collecting will NOT be based on kids reading comics at age 7. It will be based on them reading comics at age 17.

 

And lest anyone think I have personally abandoned the kids' market, I sell more copies of Archie and Looney Tunes every month than I do Superman (largely because my store is next to Subway and I get many non-collectors in the store). I donate over 300 comics a month to various charities, and I have donated nearly 100 trade paperbacks to the libraries of the local elementary and middle schools. But all of that is done on a personal basis to promote literacy. From a profit standpoint, marketing comics to kids is foolish.

[comicinvestor-migration]

The future of comic book collecting will NOT be based on kids reading comics at age 7. It will be based on them reading comics at age 17.

 

And that.... is why you will fail.

 

Long-term growth based on non-readers suddenly becoming life-long collectors is just not gonna happen, especially without an outlet to hook 'em when they're younger.

 

If you're after short-term bucks, then by all means nab the money from the speculators and Johnny Come Lately's looking to make a buck, but don't expect these people to collect comics long-term. Very, very soon, they will all be running around looking for some other "hot collectible" and the comics will go into the closet with the PSA sportscards, Beanie Babies and Pokemon cards.

 

This sub-group of society has always been about money and following it around like a dog. Once they catch wind of the new fad, they're gone. Base your business model upon that at your own peril.

[comicwiz]

The only concern I see with the comic hobby is a flattening out of prices for anything past the Bronze age of comic books. This will likely only impact the "comic-investor", and not the "comic-reader." But we ought not evaluate the importance of comic books purely on their monetary worth.

 

An argument may be made that for as many comics that have already been printed, circulated, and read from the Atom age - present, it is impossible to completely dismiss the influence some of their stories have had on our lives. Meaning, as long as these books continue to lay around in our homes, and their story is shared with the generations to come, their appeal will remain sacrosanct. I would argue that no multimedia experience, can ever replace the element of storytelling on the human psyche, young or old.

 

There is one other element, and that is the effect the concept of the "hero" has on us from a very early age. When we are young, we are fascinated with hearing the words "Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound! As we grow older, some may argue that the "anit-hero' has greater appeal. On the contrary, as adults, Superman is not battling for truth, justice and the American way any longer. Rather, Nietzsche's Superman (which literally translated from the original German ubermensch is Overman) is a human who has battled modern values and overcome the flaws of humanity.

 

As we start to come to grips with such things as seeking a path independent of the modern values of society or religion, this makes it possible for us to determine our own values. Borrowing from Nietzche's concept of the Overman/Superman, this creation of ones own values is necessary: in order for the Superman to cope with a changing world, the Superman must constantly change. And as long as one needs to cope with a changing world, one will always revert back to that story that made a difference, and share it with their own. To this end, let comic book storytelling live on.

[comicinvestor-migration]

This will likely only impact the "comic-investor", and not the "comic-reader."

 

Do you honestly believe that these new buyers are actually reading their $4 pamphlets? If you are under thsi delusion, here's a true story from one of my trips to the comic store:

 

I walk in, nab some supplies, and a Wizard, and notice a HUGE stack of Origin 5 and 6 sitting in the corner. I ask what's up and the owner say to me:

 

"Those all have a nick on the corner and NO ONE will buy them".

 

One more time for clarity:

 

"Those all have a nick on the corner and NO ONE will buy them".

 

Now why do you suppose a nick on the corner would cause these books to be unsellable to people who are pure readers? And why are so "new collectors" examining their purchases with a fine tooth comb (or as Chuck observed, a magnifying glass?) if they're all readers?

[lighthouse]

The future of the COMIC BOOK is much more bleak. I don't think the 32-page pamphlet is economically feasible any longer as it costs too much to produce for a dwindling sales base.

 

An excellent post.

 

As far as the point you raise above I think it's all about marketing. The average comic in Germany sells 400,000 copies. The average Japanese comic sells 2,000,000 copies. At print runs of that size, they can certainly be produced feasibly.

 

Why did you spend $80 on your last pair of shoes? Was it because their functionality was so vastly superior? Unlikely. It's more likely that you did so because the shoe companies spent money telling you how cool their product was and making you want to buy it.

 

Why do people spend $4 to get coffee at Starbucks? Because Starbucks told them to... And because the people around them told them to...

 

Why do people spend $3 for bottled tap water? Because they were told to...

 

Why do people buy Krispy Kreme doughnuts? Because they were told to....

 

The comic industry spend NO money promoting itself to the general public. It spends NO money to tell John Q Public that he might like to buy some comics. Consumers are sheep. They will buy anything they are told to buy. And if the product is good they will continue buying it even after the advertising is over. But the industry is too busy cannibalizing itself at every level to bother to spend some money promoting the product.

 

Why not spend some freaking money to let people know that comics are cool? They WILL believe you... They WILL try the product... And if the product is good, they will keep coming back... Price would not be an issue at all if they thought the product was cool. People who currently buy coffee for $4, water for $3, and undersized donuts that they have to wait in line to buy... These people WILL buy comics. And they will buy them at $3-$4 a copy...

 

Running a business without advertising is like winking in the dark. You know you are doing it, but no one else does... There are currently equal numbers of comic book stores and Starbucks locations in the US. Why does the comic book industry not promote its product?

[comicwiz]

CI, although your story contains in it elements of truth, you cannot assume for one minute that everyone gets into comic book collecting for the money. The tradition of collecting to read comics is where my passion for comic book collecting is found.

[comicinvestor-migration]

Man, you are in serious need of an MBA program. Get enrolled now and learn about such interesting things as:

 

Product placement and its effect on sales !

 

Demographics and customer usage patterns !

 

Location, location, location !

 

Perceived value vs. price and finding that perfect balance !

 

The benefits of having physically attractive staff !

 

Marketing addictive substances !

 

And so much more....

[comicinvestor-migration]

CI, although your story contains in it elements of truth, you cannot assume for one minute that everyone gets into comic book collecting for the money. The tradition of collecting to read comics is where my passion for comic book collecting is found.

 

Sure, but did you pick up your very first comic at age 18, during the recent CGC hype? I'm not talking about long-term collectors or readers, as these weren't the target market for tripe like Origin.

[lighthouse]

This sub-group of society has always been about money and following it around like a dog. Once they catch wind of the new fad, they're gone. Base your business model upon that at your own peril.

 

I'm not talking about the people picking up Origin, or the latest hot title.

 

I am talking about people who are introduced to the format at an age when they can afford to purchase it, and make it a part of their lives.

 

There are many products that do just fine without being in the hands of children at a young age. How many 8 year olds do you know with a big DVD collection? How many 9 year olds are out buying the latest driver to lower their handicap? How many 7 year olds are out looking for ways to get more downforce? How many 10 year olds are shopping for a 3-wt bamboo rod to take down to New Zealand?

 

We have people on this forum who spend thousands each year on comics that didn't buy them before their 16th birthday... I have customers in my shop who bought their first comics at age 17 who are trying to put a run of Hellblazer together... I have a woman in her forties who bought her first comic in 1997 and has a collection of Silver Age DC that would make many here green with envy.

 

I didn't start collecting Lighthouse figurines until my 26th birthday. Does that make me less of a collector? I don't think so. Why is a comic collector who starts at ricky's age any less of a collector?

[Gunsmoke]

Very good post. One thing I noticed is I never see comics. I see all kinds of magazines for sale, but never comics. Where are they sold? How do they expect to attract new customers if they don't advertise and their product isn't visible?

[Kevin Boyd]

Excellent points.

 

The comic book industry has always had a relaxed attitude about self-promotion preferring to sell to the buyer that is already hooked rather than try to catch the new reader.

 

Comic book companies have always resembled the readers they sell too, taking the approach that if they are quiet and stick around the periphery of what everyone else is doing then maybe they might get noticed and people will like what they find.

 

The pattern used to be that comics were handed down, as Joe pointed out in his post, comics were a generational thing. I read my brothers comics and got hooked, my younger brother read mine and collected them for a while. But an entire generation has been left out of the look because of the damage caused by the explosion of 1989-90 and the subsequent implosion of 1993. Comics were no longer fun to read and collect, they became commodities first, entertainment second.

 

Look at what happens when the mainstream media learns about a comic event... Spider-Man gets married... Superman dies... Batman gets crippled... Robin dies... Wolverine's Origin gets told.... the sales spike, people come looking for those books.

 

I still think that Marvel and DC (and Crossgen and Dark Horse) need to spend some money advertising their books in magazines like Maxim and Entertainment Weekly. Maybe it's time to do some radio and tv spots... DC did run some spots on late night tv years ago (1992-3?), but that probably had no effect. I remember that Marvel used to run ads for the latest GI Joe comic when the original GI Joe cartoon aired and that had a positive effect on sales.

 

My nephew knows about Spider-Man and many other super-heroes because I've given him the action figures and some coloring books and essential volumes. Most of his friends have no contact with these characters except thru movies and videogames and the few action figures at the local Wal-Mart. He thinks superheroes are cool because his uncle Kev knows about them... but he and his friends are more concerned with Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh and Beyblades than what is going on in the latest issue of Spider-Man.

 

What would be an easier sell would be to those people I went to school and worked with who know the characters and are interested in knowing about Wolverine's origin or reading a good Spider-Man or X-Men story. At some point they stopped buying comics because of (a) the volume of material they were forced to buy every month and (b) they were not getting that perceived value you are talking about.

 

However, if I show them a Kingdom Come or Origin or Ultimate Spidey TPB they want one. They see the value in having a thick volume that they can sit down and read for $15-20 bucks over a partial story in a flimsy pamphlet for $3.

 

If they were out perusing their local bookshop and saw those volumes prominently displayed (instead of shoved at the end of the sci-fi rack) they might pause and look and pick them up.

 

Even better, if they saw an ad for the book and knew what to look for they might actually seek it out, or order it online from Amazon. You just can't do that with single issues, you have to actually seek out and find a comic shop and hope that they've ordered enought copies - or that the issue has actually come out. Lateness killed the Origin and Dark Knight buzz that started this year off on a strong note.

 

When CI sees piles of Origin 5 & 6 lying around it's probably because the casual buyers stopped coming in after waiting MONTHS for the third and fourth issues to ship. By the time they did come out, the remaining customers were mainly speculators looking for CGC worthy copies, and the casual buyer would be more inclined to pick up the hardcover or tpb.

 

Kev