Future of Comic Book Collecting

[dam60]

This has been a great discussion and I completely agree with a lot of the comics here, especially the posts that comment on how comic companies aren't doing a lot to promote the industry.

 

One thing that I have been reading about in the pages of CBG to promote comics would be a free self contained comic that could be distributed for Halloween to the neighborhood trick-or-treaters. I think that this is a phenomenal idea.

 

If Marvel could come out with one Spider-Man and one X-Men and if DC did one Batman and one Superman, with the comics being available for 25 cents, I would most definitely give that out by the boatload instead of candy.

 

Stuff like Free Comic Book Day is a good idea, but cannot be a stand alone promotion. There really is no reason that one of the previews of the upcoming DD / X / H movies can't be something to the effect that people can read more about their local superheros every month at their local comic book store.

 

All this discussion has really made me realize how poorly run these two companies are, at least from a marketing stance. Personally, I think that DC comics will never go away as the intellectual property has done very well across the AOL Time Warner family (ie the Superman/Batman movies by (who else?) Warner Brothers, and the success of numerous animated series on the Cartoon Network). It wouldn't altogether surprise me if Marvel ended up being bought out by Sony for its Columbia Pictures unit or Viacom for its Paramount Pictures.

 

Comic characters have become the "mythology" of our time. How many Americans know about any of the Roman / Greek Gods or of Homer or Ulysses compared to how many people know about Superman / Spider-Man / Batman / Wolverine? (Gross exaggeration, but I think you get my point). Comic characters are so ingrained into our society that I do not ever see them completely disappearing, but the actual printed medium of a 32 page pamphlet may indeed be in danger. I don't understand all the numbers behind it from a profit perspective, but it does seem clear that Marvel can make more by selling its TPBs/HCs in comic stores AND amazon.com, barnes & nobles, etc. This just reinforces the bleak future for the "32 page pamphlet" as we know it. Which is exactly why the industry should do a better job of self promoting, not only specific titles, but comics in general. Someone else said it, and I couldn't agree more - Coke and Pepsi don't just necessarily advertize for their own product, they boost the soft drink market as a whole. It would be interesting to see how well RC Cola or Dr. Pepper would do if they were the only ones in the Cola market.

 

One last point, I still firmly believe that the young people of this generation need to somehow become interested in collecting comics if the industry is to survive as we know it. While I now agree that you don't necessarily have to start collecting at age 12 to be a lifetime collector, more comic book clubs should be started on college campuses and in high schools. Something must be done, and I am looking square in the eyes of DC and Marvel, to promote this industry or else in 50 years the only place suitable for comic conventions will be retirement homes.

[comicinvestor-migration]

Movie sales are most certainly not "down." Ticket prices have increased, but overall sales are increasing right along with them. We've seen repeated record breaking, or close to record breaking, years recently.

 

But that's due to the increased prices, not more people going to the theatres. Ever since TV came on the scene, the number of movie-goers (as a percentage of the population) has been declining.

 

We'll also keep seeing "record breaking" years at the Box Office, if only because tickets prices will soon be $20 a shot! Ever check the "real numbers", where Gone With the Wind would make like 200-gabazilion dollars today?

[Kevin76]

Not to mention the ever growing popularity of home theather,with Widescreen HDTV's and great surround sound,you don't have to go to the theather anymore..I have a HDTV with Surround sound and subwoofer,I hardley ever to to the theather anymore,I have it in my living room.

[g-man]

Oh God....not again with the tv.

[murph0]

I have an incredible setup for home theater, but it still doesn't compete with theaters that have that new screen technology and the THX certified speakers.

 

Brian

[COI]

One major culrpit behind the decrease of comics and other entertainment mediums, are video games. The video game industry makes more than the box office and is consuming kid's and their parent's money, as well as a large amount of adults. And with comic prices where they are, you can get a video game for the same cost as 10-15 comics. Most kids will take the video game, and sad as it is, I don't blame them.

 

I have a cousin who is 12, and instead of playing sports and getting excercise he spends all his non-school time plopped infront of his Game Cube. He's getting fat and weak and nothing holds his concentration except these games.

 

Video games are great, but they are doing a lot of damage to younger kids. I love my ps2(can't stop playing Vice City) but I didn't spend half my childhood playing, and I'm not hooked.

 

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

I have an incredible setup for home theater, but it still doesn't compete with theaters that have that new screen technology and the THX certified speakers.

 

It does when Lardo-gotta-pee-Magee sits down the row, and you need to see an orthopedic specialist after the show.

[scottish]

Lardo-gotta-pee-Magee sits down the row,

 

!

 

I tend to avoid movies these days because of the crowds. I don't need to be surrounded by 10, 5 year olds that are chatterboxes. Not to mention all the sarcastic comments that come from the teenage peanut gallery, the popcorn crunchers, soda slurpers...I could go on for hours.

 

Man, am I becoming a grumpy old fart?!

 

I don't have a top-of-the-line home system, but I do have a DVD player, 61 inch Sony and 400+ movies to watch. TV is always on in my house so I might as well enjoy it!

[dam60]

MOS, great post. Let me take a shot at it:

 

Regarding price, to use your average of $2.99 a book, you really can get at least 4 back issues off of ebay for that price, just look at how many penny auctions end with no bidders?

 

I don't really agree with what you wrote for the average comic book collector my thoughts:

1 - I think you said it yourself, you make more than min wage and won't pay $2.25. Min wage is irrelevant

2 - Personally even if I made more, and I too make more than min wage, I would just start going after the big bronze/silver age issues that I am looking for and then start on gold

3 - exactly, "In a nutshell high cover prices discourages collecting by limiting the number of titles a collector can afford to purchase on a monthly basis."

 

One thing that I wish to add is that back issues, especially from any period except for the modern age, has more self contained stores or "done in one" (DIO). If I am going to spend your average of $2.99 I want something that's nice and tidy. Even though I have the entire 11 part Quiver storyline, I could have bought the trade for much less. Right now everything is either a 4/6 part mini-series or a 4/6 part ongoing series. It doesn't seem to make sense and just throws the people who collect comics for reading pleasure, straight into the open arms of the TPBs. If I could buy the 11 part Quiver over 1 year for $2.50 a pop ($25) or buy a hardcover that I can read in one shot that retails for $20, it doesn't seem like a contest. Why would a true reader of comics want to have to pay more to have his story presented in a less durable material and with constant interruptions? (ie waiting for the next issue).

 

The post modern age really needs to revert back to some of these DIO issues. Too many parts result in a loss of reader interest. Even though I love Batman, the 12 part Hush story seems a lot, and furthermore in my opinion, would logically seem to deter people from picking up the story (why start with part 7 of 12?)? Not to say that all 12 part series are bad, in fact so far Hush is great, but they certainly deter new readers from picking up a story.

 

Let me continue with this much: the comic industry doesn't seem to care about collectors who are readers. I would say that the comic industry has made a fatal flaw in now catering to the COMIC INVESTOR and not the COMIC COLLECTOR. Allow me to explain: If you like comics for the art and/or the story, does it really matter that the comic has a "hologram cover" etc. I can see a difference between a Ghost Rider third series and a Ghost Rider first series in terms of the actual quality of the book, and true, I can see the quality difference between that same GR 3rd srs and a copy of Origin right off the shelf, but with a $3.50 tag, you are targeting the comic investor, and not the comic collector. The comic collector wants something durable enough for several reads, but not the huge price tag. The huge price tag just increases comic speculators. When Stan the Man Lee started, it was for the love of it and he made money. If you alienate that original fan base, in a few years the new breed of comic investors will tire of flipping the cgc graded books and go back to flipping NASDAQ shares. Then you will be really left with nothing.

 

Now let's keep going with this COMIC COLLECTOR vs COMIC INVESTOR. If there were only comic investors, and it does look like it's starting to come to that, why in God's name would anyone want to advertize? After all the INVESTOR wants to have the book in that "NM/M never read" condition. Point being they will never see any of the ads anyways!!!!!!!!!!! You need readers to have advertizers. The whole scope of the comic business needs to change, or the hobby really will die. Investors follow money, collectors follow comics.

 

Let me now address your point: lowering prices. This is exactly what needs to be done once the industry has undergone a change in focus. Once people are really into the comics for reading purposes, the advertizers will come. When the advertizers will come it will be more money for the publishers and cheaper comics for us. Cheaper comics to a point will bring back "alienated readers" but after that it is in the hands of the publishers to really market their books. There is no reason that as a preview to every comic related movie, both in theaters and DVD, there isn't a plug for the local comic book store / monthly books. How the industry could ever pass this up is just stupid. We're in some real bad times here folks, and things are going to get worse.

 

If anyone from Marvel or DC is reading, feel free to send me a PM. I'm ready to quit the day job to help make sure that the ship doesn't sink and comic books can be part of my compensation. (PS and if it's Marvel, I work in investment banking now and can help with your investor relations too).

 

[aardvark88]

Don't think lowering the price point on new comics is the way to go. Kids these days want colorful moving images like PS2 or live action superhero movies/videos/dvds. Go to any video rental shop & the kiddies are asking their parents to buy or rent the LIVE action ASM movie, not the flat animated Spidey vs Gr Goblin cartoon reissues.

Kids are being weened on multi-media now, & those flat funny bks just don't have the attraction they did back in the 1970s. In the 70s, we did NOT have satellite tv, internet, eBay, icq chatrooms, mp3's, cd-rom games, or dvds.

[comicinvestor-migration]

For the vast majority of youngsters (7-10), comics still hold a real appeal (trust me, I give out my Modern regularly and had to have a finger sewn back on once), but I do admit that by the time they reach 13+, the video games, movies and DVD really take over.

 

I see this clearly with my friends and family. The really young boys are out playing Beyblades, trading McDonald's hockey cards and stealing my comics , while the slightly older ones wouldn't read a comic if I paid them.

 

Basically, I feel the "Golden Age" for kids is moving downward on a yearly basis.

 

I do agree that lowering prices will not help, as comics have been the domain of the old fart much too long to ever become popular with the next generation. It's on a icey, downward slope right now, and comics are not coming back. Sad, but true.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

I've got to say, that the tone of what you said, is that of defeat. How about we just lay back and do nothing, it's inevitable, we might as well face the music, and cave in. Let's go purchase a PS2 (I already have one BTW) and be done with it.

 

Don't think lowering the price point on new comics is the way to go.

 

What do you propose as a solution to the problem?

 

odin88, I'm in my later 20's and I've played video games on and off for 12+ years. I understand what you are saying, but I think the best way to go about it is to have an active role in a part of the solution, if your not able to be directly involved, then voice your solution and maybe that will inspire someone that is directly involved.

 

If I were writing up a formula for the future of comic books the following would be PART of the solution:

 

1.) If publishers insist on staying with the pamplet format then lower the cover price of new books, kids would rather play video games, OK make the decision between buying a video game or a stack of comics a more difficult decision. Lowering the cover price would mean they could purchase more books for the same money, and that might make choosing more difficult.

 

2.) advertise & promote comic books, this has always been a weak point for mainstream comic publishers, and with all the competing entertainment, comic books should be more promoted now than ever before.

 

3.) make them more widely available in places other than a comic shop, this is very importatant, especially for the kids. It may not be a profitable soluition, but then again if you can't get them hooked at an early age, then what future sales do you have? Sometimes it's not about today's sale, it's about tomorrows sale.

 

4.) This is the most difficult part of the solution for me to include, however, I care more about the medium than the format, so it may be time for the pamplet to die. I would miss the old format, because I've grown up with it, but there are advatages for both the retailer and the consumer if comic books were published in trade paperback format.

 

Now, if you'll excuss me I have to get back to playing a video game.

[Bonds25]

Great post. I read an article about Japanese manga comics, and it said that they account for 40% of all periodical sales. You get 300 or more pages for cheap, and the stories and art are top of the line.

[aardvark88]

1 positive suggestion is for all elementary schools to institute a comic bk club/swap each week. Donations from collector/dealer/distributor overstock of suitable material. Sorry Darth, this excludes Cherry Poptart.

Some libraries already have comic tpb's (Kitchen Sink, Fantagraphics) or Ostreet in stock.

[aardvark88]

How about having a draw your fave superhero or comic character (Archie) contest for elementary schools in conjunction w/ Comic Bk Day 03May05 (X-men 2 movie) ? Prizes or rebate coupons donated by local comic bk shops in America.

Culture in Japan readily accepts ppl reading manga in public. When was the last time u saw a teenager or adult in America reading a comic on the bus/subway? Comics in America continue to be viewed as young children's entertainment.

[Kevin Boyd]

Here's my solution...

 

Since I don't think that any of those solutions (lower prices, comics in corner stores, et al.) are realizable I think comics need to start to leech their way into mainstream popular culture publications. How?

 

Since Marvel is the big leader here, go out and make deals with other publishers. What if you picked up your latest PS2 magazine and found 10 pages of Spider-Man comics? Or Maxim magazine there was a 10 page strip of the horny out of control grey Hulk from the Ultimates? Or a 5 page Daredevil or X-Men strip in Entertainment Weekly? Then they could have a one-page ad promoting the release of the latest trade paperbacks now available at Barnes & Nobles or Amazon. Give people a taste of what they are missing and they might go looking for the books.

 

EW has been reviewing comics related material regularly for a while now and their reviews have been positive. Marvel and DC need to get more of their product out into the mainstream eye... and by product I mean comic art samples not necessarily comic book movies or toys, DVDs, etc.

 

What about going to the syndicated newspapers again, and instead of a daily Spider-Man cartoon strip the comics section actually was a comics insert? Print them on cheap newsprint. Will Eisner did this for decades with the Spirit section in most US papers.

 

People aren't going to comics, so the best way to get them to come back is to bring the comics to them.

 

Kev

 

 

 

[Bonds25]

Another good post. You really have to wonder what the f**k the executives are doing at Image, Marvel, DC, etc.

[comicinvestor-migration]

Actually I think Marvel and co. are doing the best they can in a horrible situation. The ship is sinking, there's no land in sight and they're still selling off over-priced reading material to the poor, doomed crewmen.

[Kevin Boyd]

Honestly...

 

Marvel just wants to get bought out. They are exploring new publishing areas, but they don't want to shake things up too much.

 

DC is just maintaining the status quo... preserving the licenses.

 

image central doesn't know any better.

 

Nothing else is of any consequence. Crossgen is losing ground. Dark Horse lost any they had by concentrating on multiple Star Wars and Buffy spin-offs.

 

Kev

 

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

Since I don't think that any of those solutions (lower prices, comics in corner stores, et al.) are realizable I think comics need to start to leech their way into mainstream popular culture publications. How?

 

Why don't you think ANY of the solutions that I came up with are "realizable"?

 

What if you picked up your latest PS2 magazine and found 10 pages of Spider-Man comics? Or Maxim magazine there was a 10 page strip of the horny out of control grey Hulk from the Ultimates? Or a 5 page Daredevil or X-Men strip in Entertainment Weekly?

 

That is a good idea, and falls under my second solution to "advertise/promote" comic books. Now if you're implying that complete comic books should be included with magazines, then you are dreaming, and that is more rediculous than lowering the cover price of pamplet books. A comic book "demo" is a great idea, and I would like to see that implemented in magazines, especially PSM

 

EW has been reviewing comics related material regularly for a while now and their reviews have been positive. Marvel and DC need to get more of their product out into the mainstream eye... and by product I mean comic art samples not necessarily comic book movies or toys, DVDs, etc.

 

Again another good idea (mainstream eye), and if you re-read my personal introduction to comic books you will find that it STARTED with Mega Super-Hero dolls/action figures. Also I think Marvel and DC are making efforts, Spider-Man the Movie, DareDevil movie, Hulk movie, X-Men Evolution, X-Men 2, Smallville, Batman Beyond, and the Justice League animated series are recent/current/future efforts. But again if you agree that kids are not buying comic books, then what makes you think they are gonna buy art samples? Don't get me wrong, I like DF Lithographs as much as any collector, but if I didn't have interest in the characters/comic books, I wouldn't even consider purchasing one especially at $19.99+ a pop.

 

What about going to the syndicated newspapers again, and instead of a daily Spider-Man cartoon strip the comics section actually was a comics insert? Print them on cheap newsprint. Will Eisner did this for decades with the Spirit section in most US papers.

 

Again, that is a good idea, but I don't know about the probability or cost effectiveness of it.

 

People aren't going to comics, so the best way to get them to come back is to bring the comics to them.

 

Very well said and I agree with that completely. What I don't understand is all the objection and disagreement to just about anything I say. I could say that the sun is bright and somebody would want to argue otherwise, OR say something like "No it's radiant" which means the same damned thing!