IS THERE NO HONOR AMONG THIEVES?

[Guest]

I didn't realize that book was worth that much, which makes this statement odd:

 

I tend to think in black and white and not “fuzzy gray”. I have multiple copies of tough to find books. Thee are a number of ethical issues that come up for grabs here. Plenty of folks, I’m guessing, will question mine. In any case I have my opinion on this as you might guess. I’m more sad and disappointed than mad or upset.

 

So it sounds like he acknowledges his unethical behaviour, but is sad and dissapointed at the behaviour of buena_vista? So basically, his severe lowball of this unknowledgable woman is fine with him, but buena_vista's action of popping the BIN, which is not morally questionable in any way, is what dissapoints him?

 

I guess it dosen't matter if the seller would be "sad and dissapointed" for being taken, as long as vista and gem are satisfied?

 

 

 

 

We'll now we enter the "Den of Thieves". Many in this forum will need to face "capital punishment".

 

First off, maybe we should bring ib Cosmic Spider-Man and send him to the gallows with a black mask for his recent pick of 2 35 cent variants recently for $20, putting an early end to a good auction.

 

Or maybe we should nail Rob_React to a cross for his $2.00 pick up of Weird Wonder Tales 15 that he later sold to Darth for $100. Shouldn't he have let the unwitting seller know what he had?

 

I am mighty fond of Horkorp, but we'll have to crucify him as well. He recently picked up an unidentified Howard the Duck variant (among many others) with no competion for just 50 cents!

 

I don't have the stack for Carlos, but get a black mask for him as well. I've seen him at work picking up unidentified Gem's.

 

Of course silver and bronze is guilty as well, picking up an extra cheap X-Men variant, unidentified...or did he lose that one? I wonder if he contacted the seller before auction end to inform them of the grevious error. Get another black mask.

 

Lastly we'll have to do something with Jeremy. I think he failed to notify the seller of the unusually low price as well, before bidding on the item no less!

 

And of course I'll likely need to be sent down the "Fargo" grinder for my ongoing discovery of one hidden GEM after another.

 

 

 

[COI]

Read my above post.

 

Honestly, I was just playing devil's advocate more than anything else. I'm not saying any of you are immoral scum bags, I'm simply presenting the other side of things. Like I said, we all draw different lines for ourselves, and who am I to question you or anyone else? I'm just arguing to pass the time because I'm expecting an important phone call from a "special lady".

 

I'm more baffled by your double standard with how you conduct yourself, and how you expect buena_vista to conduct himself.

 

And don't air your dirty laundry here, without expecting to get some flak for it.

[Guest]

Read my above post.

 

And don't air your dirty laundry here, without expecting to get some flak for it.

 

I've already explained how I would act in the same situation.

 

The beauty of capitalism is this though:

 

You can draw your line however you like. If you think other people cross that line you don't have to do business with them. I am lucky in one respect: WIth the exception of the one trade with Jeremy, which included a Sgt Fury 133 ( a trade that was certainly not lopsided in my favor, by the way) I have acquired all the 30 cent varianst I have on my own. I don't owe anybody any big favors and when I trade I trade for equal value. On the 35 cent variants, I have by any measure paid as generous of price for books as ANYBODY could expect to get.

 

I have virtually every book Jeremy needs to complete his 30 cent collection. I guess he doesn't care to have the oportunity to acquire them from me. We'll, that is capatilism.

[Mephisto]

Are there auctions for pre approved bidders only on ebay? I thought there were but I might be mistaken. If so could this lady have only added Glenn's ID and that would have ensured he would be the only one that could bid?

[Mephisto]

 

 

 

I have virtually every book Jeremy needs to complete his 30 cent collection. I guess he doesn't care to have the oportunity to acquire them from me. We'll, that is capatilism.

 

Does this mean you are putting the wheels in motion?

[Guest]

I stay out of these type disagreements as a rule, but since you seem to be asking for opinions I would offer this Glenn.

 

You mentioned that you prefer to have the protection of eBay when making online deals and suggested the BIN as a solution to both seemingly protect yourself* and to secure the books before any competition could. You are clearly attempting to outmaneuver others that may be in pursuit of the same book. Your suggestion of the BIN carried risk, albeit slim. Nevertheless, this course of action exposed the book for a certain length of time and was dependent on precise timing for absolute success. Regardless of the circumstances that lead to the book being exposed for longer than you intended, and being noticed and bought by a competitor... you elected to take that risk as opposed to risking the loss of $25 by suggesting the ending of the auction (private off-ebay deal). If the book meant as much to you as it seems to, it might have been better to risk the $25 in a direct deal with the seller instead of exposing the book. Each decision carried risk.

 

*Also, at a sale price of $25, you would enjoy no real coverage from eBay other than threat of a feedback. $25 would be the deductible amount in the ebay standard $200 insurance coverage (really $175).

 

Bottom line: you gambled by exposing the book because you wanted security and you lost the gamble. Jeremy is under no obligation to return the deal to you IMHO. Lets keep in mind you were trying to obtain the book in this fashion because you knew other variant collectors would be pursuing it too. You had no problem ethically by limiting Jeremy's (or other variant collectors) chances of obtaining it... so why should any of them have sympathy that the maneuver failed?

 

My suggestion would be that all the known variant collectors attempt to make a unanimous pact not to attempt to end variant auctions... or agree its outright warfare, may the best man win at any cost. If even one is not willing, the rest must consider thinking offensively.

 

Lastly, if you had several copies of the variant in question and were making the covert moves to just "bolster" your collection, while Jeremy had none... its would be very hard for me as an outsider to sympathize with your position and agree that you were entitled to the book now. The fact that Jeremy was even willing to entertain a solution knowing what transpired says to me that he's very fair-minded. It would be very easy for him to be enraged that a competitor with several copies of said book, tried to limit his access from obtaining just one for himself.

 

Why not just hook Jeremy up with a book he does not have and you have multiples of... it may pay off someday.

 

I have already hooked up Jeremy with far more books than a person would expect.

 

My primary point is simply this:

 

It is acknowledged by everybody, including Jeremy, that the BIN was put up for my use by the seller. Knowing that that was the intent of the seller, even though it did not work out that way, and forcing the seller to make the sale...well that is just not a line I would cross, even with a stranger.I don't need anything let alone a comic, that bad.

[supapimp]

"all is fair in love and war" or in this case "marvel variants"

[FFB]

I know how to solve this. Let's cut the comic in half and give half to each. 4Gem, you will, of course, have to send Buena $12.50 for your half of the auction payment.

 

Yep, in a nutshell they're fighting over who gets to rip off/take advantage of that woman. Shame! No sympathy from me.

[Freiherr]

All of this is very discouraging. I hate trying to sell things as it is, but because of this post and a few others, I am almost terrified of trying to sell my variants on eBay.

 

But anyway…

 

The Seller – If she was offered $25 and accepted it, than I see nothing wrong with that. Personally, I wouldn’t wave gone so low, but to each their own. I have had this happen to me and I just chalk it up to a learning experience.

 

The Winner – No harm done. I fail to see bad intentions on his part.

 

The Loser – Better luck next time. That was a huge risk to take and it didn’t pay off. Would tick me off as well, but that’s life.

 

[awe4one]

It is acknowledged by everybody, including Jeremy, that the BIN was put up for my use by the seller. Knowing that that was the intent of the seller, even though it did not work out that way, and forcing the seller to make the sale...well that is just not a line I would cross, even with a stranger.I don't need anything let alone a comic, that bad.

 

Sounds good on the surface if he knew that info beforehand. He didn't. To contact him afterwards on a valid auction buy seems hypocritical. You were trying to get the comic on a legitimate auction before others realized it. You missed the target despite your efforts. It happens....

 

Why you've come on here to complain simply baffles me. What do you expect to happen other than an attempt to make Buena look bad? Which hasn't worked by the way...at least in my eyes.

 

Jim

[chrisco37]

Sorry Glenn. I've got to side w/ Jeremy on this one. You'd have a leg to stand on if Jeremy had known about your pre-arranged deal, and then under-cut you.

 

Everything that both of you have presented shows that he had no knowledge of this. Playing the "hidden variant game" you should know that the other collectors are constantly looking for these kind of deals, yet you allowed the auction to be listed for over 16 hours?

 

Add that you already have a couple of copies of this book, and Jeremy has none. You're crying over a situation that you, and you alone caused. Don't blame Jeremy for your mistake. That's the only thing that is not fair about this situation.

 

 

[ShieldAgent]

All of this is very discouraging. I hate trying to sell things as it is, but because of this post and a few others, I am almost terrified of trying to sell my variants on eBay.

 

Nothing to be terrified about. If you really want to sell some variants, just list them on Ebay with the word VARIANT somewhere in the auction. You will then get market value.

 

Unless your variants are catagory 4 or 5, or in VF or better, you might not like the market value--------

 

Harry

[kryptonitecomics]

Very interesting reading!!! I side with Glenn on this as well, but as Gem previously stated, we all draw our line in the sand differently.

 

 

I also agree with the notion that the seller should know what they are selling and if they don't all is fair, I mean it's not like this womens name is Edgar Church or anything

 

 

I say both of you should kiss and make up and as a gesture of good faith to each of you I will send you each an issue SGT. FURY #134 variant for free!!!

 

 

It's the yet unheard of coffee cup ring variant, but I am sure it will be in high demand once Juan Valdez signs it at the next show

[JohnBull]

It is acknowledged by everybody, including Jeremy, that the BIN was put up for my use by the seller. Knowing that that was the intent of the seller, even though it did not work out that way, and forcing the seller to make the sale...well that is just not a line I would cross, even with a stranger.I don't need anything let alone a comic, that bad.

 

A tad dramatic, don't you think?

[ArAich]

Jeremy =

 

Glen =

 

Seller =

 

Me =

[underthebigw]

Darth is right---almost everyone of the variant collectors, myself included, engages in this. And, as far as I'm concnerned, it is not unethical if done correctly. Personally, I always ask the seller what price they would be happy with and never offer something way under value. Seller beware. Either be sure you know the value of what you're selling or let it ride to the end of the auction to determine its FMV. I've had plenty of instances where the seller was certain they were putting the screws to me, so I had no qualms in buying the book. And, I generally never totally lowball sellers. There are two other reasons I don't think it's unethical to find these books from oblivious sellers. First, they are all clearly listed in Overstreet now. Second, variant collectors are themselves taking a risk going after them--we are a small group, so we are competing amongst ourselves currently, and the prices are somewhat unstable. What sells for 100 bucks one week, may only go for 20 the next. The market is very uncertain, so we are not necessarily pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

[drbanner]

Jeremy =

 

Glen =

 

Seller =

 

Me =

 

[FlyingDonut]

I read through all of this with a growing sense of irritation. I believe, and this is my opinion, that what Glenn has done here is at the best unethical. Jeremy did NOTHING wrong, and to be asked after he has made a legitimate transaction where he knew nothing of the backstory to sell the book to Glenn is ludicrous.

 

For all of you who are sloughing this off as a "variant collector thing," change the auction to be a bunch of old Hulk comics with a certain red colored book in there.

 

I believe that Glenn is trading on his relationship with Jeremy and the relationship within our own insular little world of variant collectors inappropriately. We all back off on people now - I know I have, and if I saw a Kid Colt 207 variant, I'd pick it up and offer it to Glenn at a fair price. Same with Jeremy, same with Darth, same with Horkorp. I'd hope that people on this Board would appreciate what we're all looking for and watch out for it. What Glenn did here, and has done here, is wrong.

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

Then you're all F'in scum.

 

...and proud of it

 

Good morning Andrew! I just want to assure you that in this instance that the seller is probably more than aware at this point how much her vairants are worth as even by her emails to Jeremy and Glenn, she mentions that she has received a slew of emails asking about other books she may have from other variant collectors. So, you can rest assured, she'll no longer be the victim of we "gypsies, tramps, and thieves"

[ShieldAgent]