IS THERE NO HONOR AMONG THIEVES?

[Darthdiesel]

Are there auctions for pre approved bidders only on ebay? I thought there were but I might be mistaken. If so could this lady have only added Glenn's ID and that would have ensured he would be the only one that could bid?

 

Exactly - there is a way that you can set up an auction for pre-approved biddedrs only and then you enter a list of bidders. My take is that the seller did not know Glenn's ID and was not aware of this option. Although I would be feeling serious pain (imagine a kick in the nads) if I saw a BIN for $25 on a SGT Fury 134 variant and I was blocked from bidding. Actually, some BSDs could mess with people like that... picture an CGC 9.4 AF15 being sold by metro with a BIN for $1 and the only person they preapproved to bid on it is a shill ID... it would be priceless to see the reaction on this forum

[Darthdiesel]

All of this is very discouraging. I hate trying to sell things as it is, but because of this post and a few others, I am almost terrified of trying to sell my variants on eBay.

 

But anyway…

 

The Seller – If she was offered $25 and accepted it, than I see nothing wrong with that. Personally, I wouldn’t wave gone so low, but to each their own. I have had this happen to me and I just chalk it up to a learning experience.

 

The Winner – No harm done. I fail to see bad intentions on his part.

 

The Loser – Better luck next time. That was a huge risk to take and it didn’t pay off. Would tick me off as well, but that’s life.

 

 

I wouldn't worry about it...not everyone is as cutthroat as you would be led to beleive. After all, I did point you in the right direction without expecting anything but sharing info/lowdown on variants in your local area And I did end up following thru on 2 variants that you pointed me to. 'I'm sure if you posteed yours for sale you would get good money for it, especially if you list it as a 35 cent variant and don't come off as not knowing anything about it. Let me know if you do decide to get rid of them someday

[Darthdiesel]

Unless your variants are catagory 4 or 5, or in VF or better, you might not like the market value--------

 

Harry

 

 

So true Harry, just take a look at my recent variant sale prices realized even though you couldn't hype a price variant any more and BTW thanks for all your buys

[Bonds25]

Jeremy =

 

Glen =

 

Seller =

 

Me =

 

[OldGuy]

We'll now we enter the "Den of Thieves". Many in this forum will need to face "capital punishment".

 

First off, maybe we should bring ib Cosmic Spider-Man and send him to the gallows with a black mask for his recent pick of 2 35 cent variants recently for $20, putting an early end to a good auction.

 

Or maybe we should nail Rob_React to a cross for his $2.00 pick up of Weird Wonder Tales 15 that he later sold to Darth for $100. Shouldn't he have let the unwitting seller know what he had?

 

I am mighty fond of Horkorp, but we'll have to crucify him as well. He recently picked up an unidentified Howard the Duck variant (among many others) with no competion for just 50 cents!

 

I don't have the stack for Carlos, but get a black mask for him as well. I've seen him at work picking up unidentified Gem's.

 

Of course silver and bronze is guilty as well, picking up an extra cheap X-Men variant, unidentified...or did he lose that one? I wonder if he contacted the seller before auction end to inform them of the grevious error. Get another black mask.

 

Lastly we'll have to do something with Jeremy. I think he failed to notify the seller of the unusually low price as well, before bidding on the item no less!

 

And of course I'll likely need to be sent down the "Fargo" grinder for my ongoing discovery of one hidden GEM after another.

 

Hang em all!

[kryptonitecomics]

Unless your variants are catagory 4 or 5, or in VF or better, you might not like the market value--------

 

Harry

 

 

What the heck does a catagory 4 or 5 mean??? I am sure it's a term for variant collectors, but ahhhhhhh fill me in please

 

 

[ShieldAgent]

It refers to a arbitrary rarity rating on S&B's website. 1 being the most plentiful, while 5 being VHTF. You should check out the website. It is the best variant site I have seen.

[WernerVonDoom]

Of course Jeremy did nothing wrong. He just bid on an auction.

 

But if both the seller and the bidder, someone on this board, e-mailed me and said that they were closing a deal and just screwed up by placing a BIN without selecting specific bidders, I would have either given up the book or had told the seller to re-post her auction and let the highest bidder win.

[Crowzilla]

If Glenn really wanted to assure himself as well as show the seller he was serious, he should have placed a bid on the item, and then asked her to end it early at an agreed upon price.

 

I have done this several times with success. It lets the seller know you are serious by going ahead and bidding and not just fishing. I have even worked it out where I paypal the seller in advance of the them closing the item so that they don't feel like I'm going to insist they sell it to me for the lower price after the auction ends.

 

[kryptonitecomics]

It refers to a arbitrary rarity rating on S&B's website. 1 being the most plentiful, while 5 being VHTF. You should check out the website. It is the best variant site I have seen.

 

Who's S&B??? Does someone have a link???

[ShieldAgent]

link

[buena_vista]

 

I have virtually every book Jeremy needs to complete his 30 cent collection. I guess he doesn't care to have the oportunity to acquire them from me. We'll, that is capatilism.

 

We have discussed the possibility of me buying books from you, Glenn. You have refused.

 

Your pretense of "opportunity to acquire" is absolute nonsense. You have all the books Carl needs to complete his set in dupes. I don't see you helping him out --- and you like him!!

 

Maybe you should tell the story of the Sgt. Fury 133 you sniped from me after I placed a bid -- and traded my only copy to you.

 

Despite all this I gave you a chance to comprimise -- and you tried to double talk me once again.

 

Truth is: you are a hoarder. Pure and simple. The only person's interests you have in mind are your own. All us variant collectors can burn before you sell one of your 4 or above dupes to anyone else --- unless you can get something out of it.

 

When I got a copy of Rawhide 133, I immediately contacted Silver & Bronze -- I knew it was the last book he needed to complete his set. That was my only copy --- I have no dupe. He gave me a good deal for it -- and we're both happy. I still don't have another copy, but I'm happy to have made the deal.

 

If I needed one book to complete my set and you had 5 copies of it you wouldn't offer up a sell...

 

And, yes, fellow forumites, I did make a deal with Glenn last year. I paid him good money for his mid-grade variants, almost all he had in triplicate. The only reason he "hooked me up" with the sale was because it was tied in with a trade of a book that he needed (a high grade CGC 9.2 copy of WWT 16 -- you can ask around, that's not something you see everyday).

 

 

[FlyingDonut]

Of course Jeremy did nothing wrong. He just bid on an auction.

 

But if both the seller and the bidder, someone on this board, e-mailed me and said that they were closing a deal and just screwed up by placing a BIN without selecting specific bidders, I would have either given up the book or had told the seller to re-post her auction and let the highest bidder win.

 

So would I. But that's not what happened.

[Marvelous]

Sounds like a clear case of 'finders keepers, losers weepers' or 'you snooze, you lose.'

 

You won the comic fair and square. I think the loser has to have a pretty big set to demand you let him have the comic without trying to accommodate you. I would have just shrugged it off and hit myself on the forehead for not making a better arrangement with the seller if I was the loser in this case. I wouldn't lose any sleep over this if I were you. Just drop it and move on. It isn't like this guy is going to give you any deal on duplicates you know he has that you need in the future even if you kiss his butt.

[cd4ever]

This is all very interesting reading. The comics field is so entertaining. In my mind, it's a no-brainer, Jeremy won a PUBLIC Ebay auction using the BIN. They are his books, end of story. The fact that the seller and Glen had a prior arrangement was irrelevant as long as the books were in an open auction. It was a poorly executed attempt at an off-line transaction.

 

While Jeremy could have offered Glen the books, he certainly was under no obligation to do so. Judge Judy would toss this out in a heartbeat.

[Guest]

I thought enough had been said on the matter but I guess not. Since I seem to have opened Pandora’s box, I feel a little responsibility for getting questions answered and tying down loose ends. I’ll cover these in no particular order.

 

But first, YES, we all know, Jeremy won the public auction. Congratulations to Jeremy once again! No need to call in Judge Judy….

 

PRICE FAIRNESS

 

1) I’ll take issue right now with the assertion of this books value. The last time a Sgt Fury went for big money was when there were none to be found anywhere. I believe it might have gone to S&B for close to 200. At the same time most Westerns were going for about $100 to $150. As some of the main players have come closer to completion demand has been slowing. The last "hot" item on eBay was a pretty good copy of Ring Kid. It finished somewhere around $70. Sgt Fury is nowhere near as scarce as these Western issues.

2) For copies of Sgt. Fury in less than high grade I would put a range of value of $50 on the l0owside to $100 or so on the high side. My offer was about half what I thought it was worth at full price.

3) Overstreet comments on selling comics to dealers. They note you might be expected to get 10 to 50 cents on the dollar versus guide. If I am stepping into the market place at what I believe is half the retail market, I don’t see anything wrong with that at all whatsoever.

4) To anybody on these board that buys and sells comic for a living that is knocking my offer as unfair, I say shame on you. Start paying your sellers guide.

5) To put the matter to rest I’ll post this offer right now: I have two extra copies of both Sgt Fury 133 and 134. I will offer them all or individually right here and now to the highest bidder, with bids starting at the “supposed price” of $150. You must post your offers on the boards. Come and get the!!

 

Lastly on price, period. Even if this book were worth $150, it is worth far less than I make at my profession in a very short time period. This post is not about money…not all. It is about relationships and how you treat them. Many obviously, disagree with my sense of fairness. I have no problem with that. Lastly, in my opinion, a seller has the burden of knowing the value of what they put up for sale. I think that generally, my offers to sellers have been pretty good, notwithstanding their absence of specific knowledge of what they have.

 

TAKING ADVANTAGE OF RELATIONSHIPS

 

Flying Donut says:

 

>> I believe that Glenn is trading on his relationship with Jeremy and the relationship within our own insular little world of variant collectors inappropriately. We all back off on people now - I know I have, and if I saw a Kid Colt 207 variant, I'd pick it up and offer it to Glenn at a fair price. Same with Jeremy, same with Darth, same with Horkorp. I'd hope that people on this Board would appreciate what we're all looking for and watch out for it. What Glenn did here, and has done here, is wrong.<<

 

I have been in the business world for a long time. Expectations may be the wrong word to use, maybe anticipation would be better. My Expectations/Anticipations for people that I know are far, far higher than for those people that are strangers in this world to me. I expect strangers to pull a fast one on me if I am not alert.

 

I have always considered myself an outsider on these boards. I don’t do this for a living. I don’t have the time to go to many if any shows most years, I do zero current comic buying, investing only in what I believe to be scarce back issues. I interests are focused on only a small niche, ASM 1-200. While I have been expanding slowly but surely, I do not know most of the members on this forum in a way that I would call meaningful. With the exception of Carlos, Light and Rob React I have had almost no interaction with regular posters.

 

Carlos introduced me to these boards a few months ago. Since then I have tried to get more involved in hopes of generating relationships that I thought were beneficial for somebody like me that loves to collect comics. As I got to know some of the players better I have developed expectations/anticipation of how they might behave relative to other people I “know” in life.

 

You can agree or disagree with whether the seller intended for me and me alone to hit the bid. If you don’t there is no real reason to read much of what I have to say. If you do agree I then call upon my expectations/anticipations of what is right and what would I do with folks in my “circle”. Again we get to the question: Is there honor among thieves?

 

This deal with variants has absolutely nothing to do with money. It has to do with the thrill of the hunt. I can buy an ASM in 9.4 anytime I want; all I need to do is write a check. Finding hidden gems and hard to find variants, now that is an art.

 

What has happened with this incident is that I have been forced to reflect o in a few things:

 

1) Why am I doing this anyway? Economically. I am doing the equivalent of standing in a cold shower tearing up $100 bills. I love the thrill, but if anybody is paying the price, I guess it is myself and my clients that are getting less attention than they might if I spent my comic book time doing real work.

2) Does the trouble and time I have gone through effect a beneficial enjoyment to pain ratio? Yes, to the extent that the people I am working with do not live up to my expectations/anticipations my enjoyment has been permanently damaged. This because I now understand, quite clearly, now that I am not, for the most part, dealing with friends or even gentlemanly aquamarines. What I am dealing with is competitors or “thieves” if you will. I have that in my profession and I get paid for competing.

3) How much is too much? I have been accused of hoarding. Several comments have suggested that since I have a multiple copies and he has none that IO should let him have it any way. I have heard this line of reasoning in political circles for years. Liberals think that because guys like me are better off than some others that I should pay a higher proportion of my income in taxes to be fair. This is referred to as redistribution of wealth. In this case because I happen to have more copies of a comic than someone else I am expected to give it up at below market or at all even if I want to keep it. Should I also give up one of my 3 copies of ASM #1? That is unfair I realize to collectors that can’t afford one. Where is the end to this circular argument? Every copy I have of Sgt. Fury I got off Ebay. Is there some advantage over Jeremy or others that I had? Of course not! If you want to own 10 copies of ASM 121 and 122 be my guest. This is a free market.

 

 

Now I could not leave the quotes by FD without disclosing one more bit of information. I won’t mention names, I’ve already pissed enough people off, but… since I first began my variant chase about two years ago, I have sent e-mails to some of the bigger names in the niche. In most cases I was asking for help or direction on where I might find something I need. To date I had never even received acknowledgements of my e-mails from these particular individuals. So much for brotherly love among the variant fraternity.

 

I should say that Darth and Lighthouse with whom I have done business, consistently offer both help and offer VALUE FOR VALUE. There is help if you look in the right places.

 

DEAL BACKGROUND

 

As far as the specifics of the background deals with Jeremy, I was going to close the chapter on that as what had happened in the past was water under the bridge so far as this thread went. But now he has “opened the can or worms” so I’ll dig in-

 

>>We have discussed the possibility of me buying books from you, Glenn. You have refused.

 

Your pretense of "opportunity to acquire" is absolute nonsense. You have all the books Carl needs to complete his set in dupes. I don't see you helping him out --- and you like him!!<<

 

I have made it clear to you Carl and on this board that until I get the final comic slotted, I’m not selling any cat 4 or 5 books (with the exception of the now opened offer above). At that time I think I was pretty clear that I would do what I could to help others with priority going to those that have helped me the most.

 

Moreover, in the last set of trades I did with Carlos, he needed the Kid Colt 206 but had nothing to trade for it. As a result I sent it to him for nothing at the time. The only strings attached were that at some time in the future he would owe me two high grade unslabbed books in any category. I have no idea when I’ll get those books, but I don’t have a written contract with him. He could welsh and there is nothing I could do about it. Carlos is a straight up guy however, trading value for value. I have no doubt I’ll eventually get something worthwhile in return.

 

>>Maybe you should tell the story of the Sgt. Fury 133 you sniped from me after I placed a bid -- and traded my only copy to you.<<

 

This would be a great time to tell that story, as it will take a little bit of the “piety” off the table. The copy of Sgt Fury that Jeremy traded to me was about VG. It has since graded out at 3.0, but that is close enough. I was certainly hoping to get a better copy. I saw the auction for this and placed a snipe on it at the beginning of the auction. I never looked at it again until the conclusion. At auction end it turns out I had won by exactly my top bid, beating Jeremy by about a dollar or something like that, about $102 (don’t let this affect your desire to bid on my above offers!!). At the time I was not even aware of the “Collectors Society Boards”.

 

I get an e-mail from Jeremy right away. He wants to know how I could possibly have sniped him out of the issue and accused me of doing it deliberately. I made it quire clear if he had bid a dollar more he would have won it. I then went on to say that I would be happy to trade it for anything else I needed. I’ll get to that part of the story later.

 

Additionally, Jeremy suggested that I should give him the book anyway, as he has asked the board members not to bid on it so he could win it, since he needed it! He assumed I purposefully outbid him to spite him. I had no idea he was even bidding on the books. Moreover, he thought I read the boards and knew he had a deal with board members to stay away. He then suggested I ran the price of the book up and finally he wants me to give him the book!!! Yes, Jeremy asked me to let him have the book. This was a fully disclosed variant auction and Jeremy wants me to give it up even though I had no knowledge of his deal, even though I paid full market price and even though I offered to trade it to him later.

 

>>Despite all this I gave you a chance to comprimise -- and you tried to double talk me once again<<

 

This is Jeremy’s way of not answering specific questions that I have confronted him with. Ask him what the double talk is. I don’t think he’ll be able to provide real “meat”.

 

>>Truth is: you are a hoarder. Pure and simple. The only person's interests you have in mind are your own. All us variant collectors can burn before you sell one of your 4 or above dupes to anyone else --- unless you can get something out of it.<<

 

I trade value for value in this life, whether it be for comic books, stocks or just the company of friends. If I wanted to hoard, in any case, that would be my prerogative. I am an investor with a very long time frame. Heaven forbid I would sell or trade with the intent of “getting something out of it!” But speaking of getting something out of it, well that is part of the story for the bottom of the page

 

>>When I got a copy of Rawhide 133, I immediately contacted Silver & Bronze -- I knew it was the last book he needed to complete his set. That was my only copy --- I have no dupe. He gave me a good deal for it -- and we're both happy. I still don't have another copy, but I'm happy to have made the deal.

 

If I needed one book to complete my set and you had 5 copies of it you wouldn't offer up a sell...

 

And, yes, fellow forumites, I did make a deal with Glenn last year. I paid him good money for his mid-grade variants, almost all he had in triplicate. The only reason he "hooked me up" with the sale was because it was tied in with a trade of a book that he needed (a high grade CGC 9.2 copy of WWT 16 -- you can ask around, that's not something you see everyday).<<

 

Now let’s finish the story. Jeremy has me built out as quite the villain. In one of our first trades, Jeremy wanted a few tough to find variants that I had. I was just a bit leery, as he had sold me a Conan book for good money as NM that turned out to be more like VF or VF+. Nevertheless he had what he said was a pretty good copy of Weird Wonder Tales 16 in NM or so. In return he wanted a Chamber of Chills 23 in CGC 8.5 as well as a Planet of the Apes in CGC 7.0 or so as well as a decent copy of Mighty Marvel Western 45. I then sold him a good stack of books including some cat 4 books at less than my estimate of market prices at the time, as a gesture of goodwill. On Jeremy’s part he CGC’d his WWT 16 and it turned out to be a beautiful CGC 9.2. So I finally agreed to the deal based on a few things that Jeremy had told me.

 

He had told me that he had helped quite few guys find key books and that he would help me land the last few variants I needed should he run across them.

 

A couple of months later Jeremy told me he had landed a Kid Colt 205, one of the books I needed. Believing that he was trying to help me I offered to trade any of my spare Westerns for the Kid Colt 205.

 

Jeremy’s response floored me and has tainted my relationship with him since. He said he didn’t do trades that didn’t put him ahead on the count. What do I mean? If he needs 12 books and you trade him three and he trades you two, he now needs only 11. That puts him ahead and he’ll do the trade, assuming the books are equally scarce. If you want to trade 2 for 2 that was not a good trade and he has no reason to do it. This is what Jeremy told me. So despite the fact that he had a Kid Colt 205 that I needed desperately, he wouldn’t trade, even for the SGT Fury he wanted so bad. So what I learned, to no big surprise, was that Jeremy was not so interested in trading me to help me complete my collection. What he wanted was to improve his position. Now think about this logically: If he is coming out to the good on every trade, the other side must be coming up short. This from the guy that said above: “All us variant collectors can burn before you sell one of your 4 or above dupes to anyone else --- unless you can get something out of it”. Hmmm….

 

Now I don’t hold grudges for long and had already determined to help Carl and Jeremy get stuff they needed once I found an acceptable copy of Kid Colt 207 and have already made that intent known.

 

Some of this may well clear up some of the points offered up in prior posts.

 

One thing for sure. All this over a $25 dollar comic book has sure put a damper on my enthusiasm for continuing my pursuit of these hidden gems. I need neither the money nor lost time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FlyingDonut]

Please note that I get approximately 300 emails a day, and yes, I didn't reply to Glenn's emails. I do know what books he needs (and Carl, and Jeremy, and others). If I found the Kid Colt 207, I would offer it to Glenn first. That's what we do in this little fraternity.

 

The Rawhide Kid that S&B needed that Jeremy found - I saw it first. It was bought from Al Stoltz of Basement Comix. That's probably why Jeremy knew Paul needed. it.

[DiceX]

5) To put the matter to rest I’ll post this offer right now: I have two extra copies of both Sgt Fury 133 and 134. I will offer them all or individually right here and now to the highest bidder, with bids starting at the “supposed price” of $150. You must post your offers on the boards. Come and get the!!

 

I see you're selling some low grade books that I need for my collection.

They are not worth much, but I'll give you $7.50 for the pair if you end the auction now.

If I were you, I'd take the offer because they will probably close with no bids if you let it run the full auction.

I just thought I'd be the good guy and save you the auction fees on books that are not worth anything.

 

 

 

 

[FFB]

[Darthdiesel]

Moreover, in the last set of trades I did with Carlos, he needed the Kid Colt 206 but had nothing to trade for it. As a result I sent it to him for nothing at the time. The only strings attached were that at some time in the future he would owe me two high grade unslabbed books in any category. I have no idea when I’ll get those books, but I don’t have a written contract with him. He could welsh and there is nothing I could do about it. Carlos is a straight up guy however, trading value for value. I have no doubt I’ll eventually get something worthwhile in return.

 

I remember it well and I still have to trade you the "wrong" Iron Man CGC 9.2 variant you sent (you sent me your TOp census not the dupe). I don't go back on my word and that is just the way I live my life...less complicated that way.

 

also since you are coming close to the 35 cent variant set completeion, I could also help you there. I have not come back with any 30 cent high grades, as I have not come across any and my ebay win record can show that I do have 35 centers for you that you need from your list and I'll be glad to help you out there

 

With all this laid out finally I hope you and Jeremy can work something out down the road eventually. I hat being in the middle of two buddies and being asked to make a judgement call on who is right...very uncomfortable.

 

 

As for my valuation of $150 on this book, it stands based on the conditions I stated initially. If you or I needed it for an upgrade we would have put in silly snipes to secure it. Case in point: The VF/NM or higher on the Doc Stone variants - the Conans for instance. You and I pulled pretty bonehead bids now that we look back on it, coming in at # 1 and 2 high bidders on some ratty tatty VG variants. Also if this Sgt Fury 134 was higher than my CGC 5.0 copy, you can bet that I would have been sniping $150 AT LEAST...it a sickness, and I need help

 

As for Rob React's $2 WWT 15 that I bought for $100; I have no regrets...I thought it could possibly beat my then ungraded GD copy; now I have a CGC 4 and a CGC 2 - more trading material