GPAnalysis rant!

[comicwiz]

I'm not sure I understand the problem with having page quality for some items but not for others. Some data is better than none in this case; I'm confused how not having it across the board is any kind of disadvantage at all, except that customers will complain because they don't understand why some prices don't have page quality. I don't really accept that as a valid reason against it though...making the customers who DO understand that suffer due to the impatient dips out there is rather irritating.

 

You said you understood the data aspects. So with respect to your "some data is better than none" comment, why would you view holes in PQ metrics any differently than a dealer selecting which sales to report?

 

In my oppinion, a "dealer selecting which sales to report" is blatantly choosing to withold data.

 

On the other hand, "holes in PQ metrics" simply mean not all sales have verifiable PQ.

 

Say we have a mess like below:

 

CGC 9.6 Sales for Amazing Spider-man #101 (made up sales figures)

 

Sale Date: 6/1/10 $150 PQ = Unknown

Sale Date: 5/9/10 $120 PQ = OWW

Sale Date: 2/4/10 $100 PQ = OW

Sale Date: 2/6/10 $90 PQ = Unknown

 

And there is a BIN on a 9.6 White for $120, then heck you know that in comparitive sales that this is a "good deal" The "Unknown" $150 sale above could of had Cream pages, WHO KNOWS. But the data that is available DOES HELP. I think that's a start (thumbs u

 

- bounty

 

I understand your position, but as a seller, here's how I'm seeing things play out. A buyer comes to me asking me how I justify my pricing, and then quotes GPA prices. They are already "selectively" gravitating to a price that will benefit them in the transaction. They might even try the "oh, I just missed a copy on eBay for lower" - not knowing that I probably tracked the same auction and it was a CR/OW copy with tanned edges. For anyone who doubts this happens, start selling some of your books and it will be brought to your abrupt attention in due time.

 

As a seller, I have the right to call them on their approach, and that can be a tough balancing act when you're working with unknowns like venue, marketing factors, and quite frankly, not having the information on PQ for the top shelf sale hurts my chances when "unknown" PQ might come in the way of taking a stand on my ASM 101 9.6 White pager. We can guess that the top sale is a White Pager, but what if it isn't?

 

Ultimately, I could bow out and say no, but to suggest it's an assist across the board wouldn't be entirely accurate. If you're going to report on a metric, where the impact of a BA CR/OW copy would fetch significantly less than a WP copy, there is absolutely no room for any "unknowns" or gaps in reporting PQ. Show it all the time, with all sales, or don't bother showing it at all.

[AGGIEZ]

All in all, I'm a little taken aback, not at the way the thread started to develop from a "wish" to a "fantasy" list, but the tone and manner in which some of the thoughtless requests were bandied about. I'm not going to get into the technical reasons informing my opinion; suffice it to say that the "specialized" nature of the requests lose relevancy for 99% of the subscribers.

 

In my day to day dealings with analysts who dream, and dream big, the abstract analysis and fortune telling is something I always find arresting when it arises in a discussion. There are just too many unknown variables in commerce to really be able to pin down why a book sells with two different prices a few minutes, hours, days, weeks or years apart. It's one thing to suggest that bar codes could allow us to have a more detail oriented analysis to back up our hunches on PQ or QP's role in the final sale price, but we also must be prepared to account for the margin of error and unknowns that exist with people's choices for paying what they do.

 

The idea of automating CGC sales is meant to give us a quick, and more dynamic glance at pricing than any other sales reporting tool currently available. To expect it as the be all and end all of all your collecting and analysis pursuits is both impractical and unrealistic.

 

If you disagree, then I say build it out and see if they come. If they don't, then you'll know whether what you're proposing has merit, and even if it has merit, there is never any ironclad guarantee it will be commercially viable.

 

 

 

Yeh, God forbid we ever ask for more...and if we do we better ask with a chipper tone!! Buncha ingrates!

 

 

[Gatsby77]

I really don't like that Comiclink doesn't submit to GPA, because it incentivizes many dealers (and board members) to buy at below GPA there and then immediately try to flip for GPA or Overstreets or more. As a collector, I end up having to overpay as a result if I miss the C-Link auction, and I think a bunch of this behavior would be stopped if buyers knew that C-Link data would effect GPA.

 

Example: Fully 60% of the books I tracked and/or bid on in the May C-Link auction are already either back for sale at a mark-up on Comic-Link or are on Ebay as Buy-It-Nows.

 

Granted, more eyeballs see the offerings on Ebay than on Comiclink, so flipping there would work regardless, but GPA inclusion of C-Link would help stop much of the blatant greed.

 

Ditto--C-link is selective in the sales it reports on its site--GPA records and/or high prices stay listed for months while would-have-been GPA low sales seem to disappear from the site almost instantly.

[bounty_coder]

I'm not sure I understand the problem with having page quality for some items but not for others. Some data is better than none in this case; I'm confused how not having it across the board is any kind of disadvantage at all, except that customers will complain because they don't understand why some prices don't have page quality. I don't really accept that as a valid reason against it though...making the customers who DO understand that suffer due to the impatient dips out there is rather irritating.

 

You said you understood the data aspects. So with respect to your "some data is better than none" comment, why would you view holes in PQ metrics any differently than a dealer selecting which sales to report?

 

In my oppinion, a "dealer selecting which sales to report" is blatantly choosing to withold data.

 

On the other hand, "holes in PQ metrics" simply mean not all sales have verifiable PQ.

 

Say we have a mess like below:

 

CGC 9.6 Sales for Amazing Spider-man #101 (made up sales figures)

 

Sale Date: 6/1/10 $150 PQ = Unknown

Sale Date: 5/9/10 $120 PQ = OWW

Sale Date: 2/4/10 $100 PQ = OW

Sale Date: 2/6/10 $90 PQ = Unknown

 

And there is a BIN on a 9.6 White for $120, then heck you know that in comparitive sales that this is a "good deal" The "Unknown" $150 sale above could of had Cream pages, WHO KNOWS. But the data that is available DOES HELP. I think that's a start (thumbs u

 

- bounty

 

I understand your position, but as a seller, here's how I'm seeing things play out. A buyer comes to me asking me how I justify my pricing, and then quotes GPA prices. They are already "selectively" gravitating to a price that will benefit them in the transaction. They might even try the "oh, I just missed a copy on eBay for lower" - not knowing that I probably tracked the same auction and it was a CR/OW copy with tanned edges. For anyone who doubts this happens, start selling some of your books and it will be brought to your abrupt attention in due time.

 

As a seller, I have the right to call them on their approach, and that can be a tough balancing act when you're working with unknowns like venue, marketing factors, and quite frankly, not having the information on PQ for the top shelf sale hurts my chances when "unknown" PQ might come in the way of taking a stand on my ASM 101 9.6 White pager. We can guess that the top sale is a White Pager, but what if it isn't?

 

Ultimately, I could bow out and say no, but to suggest it's an assist across the board wouldn't be entirely accurate. If you're going to report on a metric, where the impact of a BA CR/OW copy would fetch significantly less than a WP copy, there is absolutely no room for any "unknowns" or gaps in reporting PQ. Show it all the time, with all sales, or don't bother showing it at all.

 

It's a tango of sorts...a dance if you will . The entire comic community cannot be responsible for those that try and skew information to their favor when making a bid for a book or offer, it's a part of the game. But what we can do is attempt to provide the most information that is available to us, so that the community can make the best possible judgements available.

 

And regarding your situation that you bring up, I get that. But on the flip side what if the data rolled out as follows below:

 

Sale Date: 6/1/10 $150 PQ = Unknown

Sale Date: 5/9/10 $120 PQ = Unknown

Sale Date: 2/4/10 $100 PQ = Unknown

Sale Date: 2/6/10 $90 PQ = Cream

 

And say you have an OWW copy. This could bring the leverage back into your court. Again...it's a tango, both sides strut their stuff. When selling items, you make your case as to why it is worth that, and the buyer makes their case (whether internally to themselves or directly with a seller) as to why they are willing to pay what they are.

 

But to say not having some of the data if available is detrimental, I don't believe that. I believe that it could swing in either sides favor based off of what data is available. But it is valuable data in my oppinion.

 

But let's change gears to that of not a buyer or seller, but just a collector that owns the book and wants to estimate it's "value"

 

Sale Date: 6/1/10 $150 PQ = White

Sale Date: 5/9/10 $120 PQ = OWW

Sale Date: 2/4/10 $100 PQ = OWW

Sale Date: 2/6/10 $90 PQ = Unknown

 

This gives them a good idea that they sit around 100-120 for their OWW copy. It gives a better "feel" for the situation. Nothing is going to be perfect, except requiring all sellers of all books everywhere to list PQ, but that could be like moving mountains. Let's just move pebbles for now, and work our way up

 

-bounty

[jkrk]

First off.. I will admit that I don't subscribe to GPanalysis.

 

I generally have an idea about pricing while looking at multiple venues sales data (I can do this since I only have an interest in 100 or so comics).

 

Here is some of the info I am generally am interested in to determine the validity of prior sales data:

 

1)Was the prior sales on a holiday? If not, Day of week? Time of day?

 

2)What were the obvious defects? shadows, tape, tears, creases, pcs missing, bends, glue, etc on the books?

 

3)page quality... in particular brittle or tan pages?

 

4)Sellers feedback (E-Bay).

 

5)Auction or single listing?

 

6)How often are copies of the book up for sale?

 

7)On what venue did the sale take place?

 

8)were the sales taking place before or after a movie release?

 

A serial number is nice but often I'll spot a book at the last minute and unfortunately CGC is not a 24 hour service.

 

[esquirecomics]

I am working on a huge file to send to george of all the GA transactions I have recorded (going back a few years too)... just a big undertaking for me, so I have been a bit slow to get the info to george

 

This thread aims to make your job a little harder.

it is actually getting all the cgc bar codes that is time consuming for me... I generally kept scans of every book, but finding the scans to match up with the book etc, just takes time

 

all sales moving forward, I record all info up front !

 

 

So what individual collectors is George giving 'recording rights' to for GPA sales data?....besides you GAtor

 

[G.A.tor]

I am working on a huge file to send to george of all the GA transactions I have recorded (going back a few years too)... just a big undertaking for me, so I have been a bit slow to get the info to george

 

This thread aims to make your job a little harder.

it is actually getting all the cgc bar codes that is time consuming for me... I generally kept scans of every book, but finding the scans to match up with the book etc, just takes time

 

all sales moving forward, I record all info up front !

 

 

So what individual collectors is George giving 'recording rights' to for GPA sales data?....besides you GAtor

well, while I am a collector and always will be a collector, I also buy and sell millions of dollars of comics each year that I believe the market will benefit from the reporting of, as my business (New Force Comics) is transitioning from more of a mail order action figure/statue/new comics sales, into vintage comics as our primary sales items!...so, I have transitioned from just a buyer of comics, to a buyer and a "seller" of comics... all my sales are documented, can be validated, are reported (and taxed) to the IRS (in my profit and loss on schedule C), so I am doing this as part of my business...and since I specialize in Golden Age (an area where GPA is not as "supported" in recorded transactions), I hope that my reporting will be of great benefit not only to GPA, but to the market as a whole (thumbs u

 

and, it took years for GPA to allow me to report, so I don't think George is just letting the avg collector report (not that you were implying that about me)...but I understand your question, and I do think that all reported sales still have to be taken as just a piece of the overall picture!

[Flee-Marquette]

and, it took years for GPA to allow me to report, so I don't think George is just letting the avg collector report (not that you were implying that about me

 

Gator's performance in the past year has been above average. He has perfect

attendance and gets along well with others. He does need to work on his

penmanship and gastrointestinal control. I recommend that he be allowed

to report to GPA. Signed, Flee

[AGGIEZ]

GAtor,

 

Trust me, I don't think you're just the "avg collector". And I certainly wasn't implying anything by the question. The more 'trusted collectors' that George can allow self reporting to GPA, the better. And I would certainly count you and Esquire in that category....and Bedrock...and a few others.

 

There are so many offline sales transactions for some of the GA and SA stuff that allowing this type of reporting is really the only way to have valid data on some of these books.

 

[VintageComics]

GAtor,

 

Trust me, I don't think you're just the "avg collector". And I certainly wasn't implying anything by the question. The more 'trusted collectors' that George can allow self reporting to GPA, the better. And I would certainly count you and Esquire in that category....and Bedrock...and a few others.

 

There are so many offline sales transactions for some of the GA and SA stuff that allowing this type of reporting is really the only way to have valid data on some of these books.

 

GPA is not allowing any collectors to report GPA data. He is allowing select dealers to report GPA data. Big difference.

 

There was a discussion about a year ago regarding submitting CGC board transactions but the general gist of the thread was that many people were afraid of statistics being skewed and so the idea did not catch on.

 

I still personally see validity in the reports (as did many others) of those sales but again, the majority rules.

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

Suck it, hippie.

[VintageComics]

Suck it, hippie.

 

Hey, I'm ok with it either way.

 

I see a benefit but I'm not going to get bent out of shape with it.

 

There will never be a perfect model. Just intentions and efforts to make one.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

[seanfingh]

[G.A.tor]

and, it took years for GPA to allow me to report, so I don't think George is just letting the avg collector report (not that you were implying that about me

 

Gator's performance in the past year has been above average. He has perfect

attendance and gets along well with others. He does need to work on his

penmanship and gastrointestinal control. I recommend that he be allowed

to report to GPA. Signed, Flee

that kid was looking at my answers

[G.A.tor]

GAtor,

 

Trust me, I don't think you're just the "avg collector". And I certainly wasn't implying anything by the question. The more 'trusted collectors' that George can allow self reporting to GPA, the better. And I would certainly count you and Esquire in that category....and Bedrock...and a few others.

 

There are so many offline sales transactions for some of the GA and SA stuff that allowing this type of reporting is really the only way to have valid data on some of these books.

I hear you... I don't think it invalidates existing info by not having every legit sale recorded by gpa, nor am I convinced it would be any more valid that what is already being submitted if one did... as mentioned, GPA is one piece of the puzzle...and while I am all for "more", sometimes "more" is not always "better"

[decepticon]

So, why doesn't GPA record sales from CLink? .. sorry for the newb question. It's not like they're hidding their sales they have every month. The final bids are still posted just before the next month's auction starts. I'm not sure if you can go back and track past auctions / final bids and can see that tracking old records maybe harder since it's not available. I also understand it if GPA didn't have enough resources to track all sales. Heck I even have a hard time tracking things myself sometimes. That's why I don't personally track sales on Ebay. I don't have time to monitor a site that has 24/7 sales going on constantly.

[thirdgreenham]

and, it took years for GPA to allow me to report, so I don't think George is just letting the avg collector report (not that you were implying that about me

 

Gator's performance in the past year has been above average. He has perfect

attendance and gets along well with others. He does need to work on his

penmanship and gastrointestinal control. I recommend that he be allowed

to report to GPA. Signed, Flee

 

AHAHAHAHAHA!

[VintageComics]

 

you, Firehair.

 

[plasticide-migration]

So, why doesn't GPA record sales from CLink? ..

 

Josh is too greedy to report ALL of his sales. It's 100% his fault, not GPA's. George has integrity.

[Silver]

For the most part, GPA does what I need it to do...when I use it. I personally think 9.95 a month is way too much for someone to pay who uses it infrequently. I asked them if they would ever consider a tiered pricing and was just told "no". I think they could easily implement a model to do say 10 or less lookups a month and charge like 4.95 a month and get a lot more people subscribing.

 

I subscribe to other services, like World or Warcraft. I get a heck of a lot of use out of that for 12.95 a month (probably more use than my wife likes!)

 

On another note, whoever puts out a "price guide" online that tracks sales and has data about series such as covers and data about each comic (creator, first appearances, etc.) and let's you track your collection as an online service will be a winner. It's possible Comic-Base is on the way to becoming that now. If GPA wants to really survive after a true competitor enters the space, they should listen to their customers and try to offer more.