Is the new Overstreet out yet??

[comicwiz]

So by your bizarre definition, ANY comic printed in the same factory is a variant, since things were changed between runs.

 

Halting a printing press to make a change is different from what I'm talking about. In fact, "changes" was one criteria used by the late Jay Kennedy to determine the varying printings for underground comix. Any assumptions that could not be answered by distinguishing those differences by eye were confirmed through interviews with publishers and printers.

 

I use the term procure, but what it actually means is that the publishers of these comics put a great deal of time, thought, human resources and efficiency to realize the printing of different copies to run on the press at the exact same time, in the same location. You could continue to belittle and ridicule what's being put forward, but unless you realize the importance of the printing process as part of determining variants, you'll miss the point that it's the one common criteria thread that all variants share.

[VintageComics]

Guys, doesn't the word variant by definition (because it comes from the root "vary" or "to vary") mean that ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant?

 

This is the meaning of the word variant in the truest and simplest sense.

 

What kind of variant a given book is, is going to be a totally different discussion....whether a book varies because of

 

1) a production error

2) intended price change

3) unintended price change

4) intended difference

5) different target market

 

...is a completely different discussion and values will be based on how the market receives these designations.

 

I understand that there are some deep roots in this discussion but in it's simplest form the words "to vary" can be applied to all comics that you are discussing. How or why it varies is a different discussion. Let's not mix the two up.

 

R.

[500Club]

You're right. But I think the hobby connotation of 'variant' isn't quite that simple, and that is the focus of the (great) debate above.

 

I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on. I don't think Canadian books should be looked at as 'foreign editions', though, because for all intents and purposes, the Canada/US market has mostly been a singular entity using the same currency.

[Lazyboy]

It seems that you're saying ALL comics printed in a multiple-run environment are variants.

 

Not entirely true, and lets keep this on subject. The publishers who produced different priced copies to accommodate the exchange rate differences in the early 80's were all based in the U.S.A., so lets not complicate things by bringing in China.

 

If we can agree that all those books from Marvel, DC, Archie, Charlton, Harvey, et al were printed in the U.S.A., then there is no question whether those "different" copies produced with a single price for Canada and the UK were printed simultaneously alongside their regular US/Direct editions. Comics priced for Canada and UK during this time are and should be regarded as variants.

 

When the multi-price format came into effect, there was no longer any need to run a simultaneous print run to procure a printing for different priced copies.

 

Actually, they were all printed in Canada, but that isn't really the point.

 

Any comic that is printed has at least one version. If there is more than one version of an issue, the most common one is the standard and all others are variants.

[VintageComics]

You're right. But I think the hobby connotation of 'variant' isn't quite that simple, and that is the focus of the (great) debate above.

 

I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on. I don't think Canadian books should be looked at as 'foreign editions', though, because for all intents and purposes, the Canada/US market has mostly been a singular entity using the same currency.

 

That's because the variety of books covered under the term variant has evolved but the term variant itself has not evolved to keep up with the times.

 

Spider-man has evolved since 1962, so have the FF. So has art production and techniques.

 

Terms for eras constantly evolve to meet the needs of the market.

 

There's no reason why the term variant can't evolve past what it was in 1978 since the hobby is so different 20 years later.

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

It seems that you're saying ALL comics printed in a multiple-run environment are variants.

 

Not entirely true, and lets keep this on subject. The publishers who produced different priced copies to accommodate the exchange rate differences in the early 80's were all based in the U.S.A., so lets not complicate things by bringing in China.

 

If we can agree that all those books from Marvel, DC, Archie, Charlton, Harvey, et al were printed in the U.S.A., then there is no question whether those "different" copies produced with a single price for Canada and the UK were printed simultaneously alongside their regular US/Direct editions. Comics priced for Canada and UK during this time are and should be regarded as variants.

 

When the multi-price format came into effect, there was no longer any need to run a simultaneous print run to procure a printing for different priced copies.

 

Actually, they were all printed in Canada, but that isn't really the point.

 

Any comic that is printed has at least one version. If there is more than one version of an issue, the most common one is the standard and all others are variants.

 

Exactly. More or less.

[seanfingh]

Guys, doesn't the word variant by definition (because it comes from the root "vary" or "to vary") mean that ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant?

 

No. Next question.

[VintageComics]

Guys, doesn't the word variant by definition (because it comes from the root "vary" or "to vary") mean that ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant?

 

No. Next question.

 

Why not? It varies from the original. How it varies, why it varies and whether it's collectible or not is an entirely different matter.

 

What is happening in this thread is that people are trying to pigeonhole the term variant when in fact it can't be pigeonholed because as different types of "variants" are produced that term becomes more and more broad to the point where it needs to be broken down into categories.

 

 

[rodan57]

What is happening in this thread is that people are trying to pigeonhole the term variant when in fact it can't be pigeonholed because as different types of "variants" are produced that term becomes more and more broad to the point where it needs to be broken down into categories.

 

 

True.

[comicwiz]

It seems that you're saying ALL comics printed in a multiple-run environment are variants.

 

Not entirely true, and lets keep this on subject. The publishers who produced different priced copies to accommodate the exchange rate differences in the early 80's were all based in the U.S.A., so lets not complicate things by bringing in China.

 

If we can agree that all those books from Marvel, DC, Archie, Charlton, Harvey, et al were printed in the U.S.A., then there is no question whether those "different" copies produced with a single price for Canada and the UK were printed simultaneously alongside their regular US/Direct editions. Comics priced for Canada and UK during this time are and should be regarded as variants.

 

When the multi-price format came into effect, there was no longer any need to run a simultaneous print run to procure a printing for different priced copies.

 

Actually, they were all printed in Canada, but that isn't really the point.

 

Any comic that is printed has at least one version. If there is more than one version of an issue, the most common one is the standard and all others are variants.

 

I'm talking about the early 1980's Marvel and DC's (and other participating publishers) who printed a newsstand variant to accommodate for the exchange rate difference between U.S. and Canada. Those were printed in the U.S.A. Check the copyright info.

[divad]

A "variant" is only a "variant" if you can sell it for ten times more . . . otherwise it's just crapola

[jonjesper]

just to stir the pot...

are the Canadian editions variations of the US editions?

They are clearly different in that the price is different, so in essence they would be a variation of the original.

No dog in this fight and I can see both sides.

 

It actually reminds of me of O-Pee-Chee cards (Canada version) vs Topps cards (US version). O-Pee-Chee were and I presume still worth a fraction of the Topps card. Maybe a correlation?

[Lazyboy]

It seems that you're saying ALL comics printed in a multiple-run environment are variants.

 

Not entirely true, and lets keep this on subject. The publishers who produced different priced copies to accommodate the exchange rate differences in the early 80's were all based in the U.S.A., so lets not complicate things by bringing in China.

 

If we can agree that all those books from Marvel, DC, Archie, Charlton, Harvey, et al were printed in the U.S.A., then there is no question whether those "different" copies produced with a single price for Canada and the UK were printed simultaneously alongside their regular US/Direct editions. Comics priced for Canada and UK during this time are and should be regarded as variants.

 

When the multi-price format came into effect, there was no longer any need to run a simultaneous print run to procure a printing for different priced copies.

 

Actually, they were all printed in Canada, but that isn't really the point.

 

Any comic that is printed has at least one version. If there is more than one version of an issue, the most common one is the standard and all others are variants.

 

I'm talking about the early 1980's Marvel and DC's (and other participating publishers) who printed a newsstand variant to accommodate for the exchange rate difference between U.S. and Canada. Those were printed in the U.S.A. Check the copyright info.

 

I know what we are talking about, I was just mistaken in my belief that the majority of comic printing had moved to Canada by that time. Upon further inspection, it appears that only higher quality books were printed in Canada then. Regardless, the physical location of printing is still irrelevant to this discussion.

[thirdgreenham]

just to stir the pot...

are the Canadian editions variations of the US editions?

They are clearly different in that the price is different, so in essence they would be a variation of the original.

No dog in this fight and I can see both sides.

 

It actually reminds of me of O-Pee-Chee cards (Canada version) vs Topps cards (US version). O-Pee-Chee were and I presume still worth a fraction of the Topps card. Maybe a correlation?

 

With regards to baseball cards, OPC are worth a fraction of Topps. With regards to hockey cards, Topps are worth a fraction of OPC.

 

Andy

[marvelcollector]

Guys, doesn't the word variant by definition (because it comes from the root "vary" or "to vary") mean that ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant?

 

This is the meaning of the word variant in the truest and simplest sense.

 

 

Stop being all logical and making sense Roy.

[comicwiz]

It seems that you're saying ALL comics printed in a multiple-run environment are variants.

 

Not entirely true, and lets keep this on subject. The publishers who produced different priced copies to accommodate the exchange rate differences in the early 80's were all based in the U.S.A., so lets not complicate things by bringing in China.

 

If we can agree that all those books from Marvel, DC, Archie, Charlton, Harvey, et al were printed in the U.S.A., then there is no question whether those "different" copies produced with a single price for Canada and the UK were printed simultaneously alongside their regular US/Direct editions. Comics priced for Canada and UK during this time are and should be regarded as variants.

 

When the multi-price format came into effect, there was no longer any need to run a simultaneous print run to procure a printing for different priced copies.

 

Actually, they were all printed in Canada, but that isn't really the point.

 

Any comic that is printed has at least one version. If there is more than one version of an issue, the most common one is the standard and all others are variants.

 

I'm talking about the early 1980's Marvel and DC's (and other participating publishers) who printed a newsstand variant to accommodate for the exchange rate difference between U.S. and Canada. Those were printed in the U.S.A. Check the copyright info.

 

I know what we are talking about, I was just mistaken in my belief that the majority of comic printing had moved to Canada by that time. Upon further inspection, it appears that only higher quality books were printed in Canada then. Regardless, the physical location of printing is still irrelevant to this discussion.

 

Which higher quality books are you talking about, and why is it irrelevant - because you said so?

[Lazyboy]

I'm talking about the early 1980's Marvel and DC's (and other participating publishers) who printed a newsstand variant to accommodate for the exchange rate difference between U.S. and Canada. Those were printed in the U.S.A. Check the copyright info.

 

I know what we are talking about, I was just mistaken in my belief that the majority of comic printing had moved to Canada by that time. Upon further inspection, it appears that only higher quality books were printed in Canada then. Regardless, the physical location of printing is still irrelevant to this discussion.

 

Which higher quality books are you talking about,

 

From a quick look at about a dozen Marvel and DC books from that period, anything not printed on newsprint.

 

and why is it irrelevant - because you said so?

 

As long as all copies of an issue are printed in the same place and at the same time, it doesn't matter if it is in the U.S., Canada, China, at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, or on the moon. Why would location of printing matter as far as variant discussion is concerned? If there is any relevance there, I really don't get it.

 

 

[ShieldAgent]

Let me cut to the chase.

 

Canadians selling their Canadian editions want their books to be thought of as price variants, because they kind of resemble real price variants, and they want a premium for their otherwise worthless "as normal US editions" books.

 

Well, they are not price variants.

 

I will concede that a foreign edition is a variant of the regular newsstand edition, but it is still a foreign edition.

[VintageComics]

Let me cut to the chase.

 

Canadians selling their Canadian editions want their books to be thought of as price variants, because they kind of resemble real price variants, and they want a premium for their otherwise worthless "as normal US editions" books.

 

Well, they are not price variants.

 

Just to be clear, I don't collect variants and I never have. I think I may have sold one or two ever and you might have even bought it from me.

 

I do see the logic in calling it a variant. What type of variant is still up for discussion. The word variant is no longer sufficient to cover all the types of variants that are out there.

 

Canadian Price Variant comes to mind, and those have been around since the Golden Age. There is a Batman #2 listed in Overstreet as a Canadian $0.15 copy and that book resides in my town. I know there are other GA books that did the same. The books are entirely identical to their US counterparts except for the price slug.

 

I will concede that a foreign edition is a variant of the regular newsstand edition, but it is still a foreign edition.

 

Wouldn't a foreign edition be a book that was printed for a foreign market with ads, prices and language specifically for that foreign market?

 

We're pretty unique here in North America because of our similarities and so as far as commerce is concerned the only difference in marketing comic books between Canada and America is the price based on the exchange.

 

That makes it a Canadian Price Variant to me. Just like the Batman #2 in the guide.

 

 

[ShieldAgent]

Let me cut to the chase.

 

Canadians selling their Canadian editions want their books to be thought of as price variants, because they kind of resemble real price variants, and they want a premium for their otherwise worthless "as normal US editions" books.

 

Well, they are not price variants.

 

Just to be clear, I don't collect variants and I never have. I think I may have sold one or two ever and you might have even bought it from me.

 

I do see the logic in calling it a variant. What type of variant is still up for discussion. The word variant is no longer sufficient to cover all the types of variants that are out there.

 

Canadian Price Variant comes to mind, and those have been around since the Golden Age. There is a Batman #2 listed in Overstreet as a Canadian $0.15 copy and that book resides in my town. I know there are other GA books that did the same. The books are entirely identical to their US counterparts except for the price slug.

 

I will concede that a foreign edition is a variant of the regular newsstand edition, but it is still a foreign edition.

 

Wouldn't a foreign edition be a book that was printed for a foreign market with ads, prices and language specifically for that foreign market?

 

We're pretty unique here in North America because of our similarities and so as far as commerce is concerned the only difference in marketing comic books between Canada and America is the price based on the exchange.

 

That makes it a Canadian Price Variant to me. Just like the Batman #2 in the guide.

 

 

What makes the books you are referring to Price Variants is the indicia. Generally, if the indicia says one price, and the cover says another, you have a price variant.

 

The Canadian editions everyone is trying to push off as Price Variants have the cover price match their indicia price. Therefore, they may be variants as your definition includes foreign editions, but they are not Price Variants.

 

Is that more clear?