Is the new Overstreet out yet??

[RockMyAmadeus]

Guys, doesn't the word variant by definition (because it comes from the root "vary" or "to vary") mean that ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant?

 

No. Next question.

 

Why not? It varies from the original. How it varies, why it varies and whether it's collectible or not is an entirely different matter.

 

What is happening in this thread is that people are trying to pigeonhole the term variant when in fact it can't be pigeonholed because as different types of "variants" are produced that term becomes more and more broad to the point where it needs to be broken down into categories.

 

 

What you call "pigeonholing", most people would call "making clear."

 

The word "variant" as it relates to the comic book industry has (and should have) a specific meaning, that NARROWS the standard definition of the word "variant" to mean a certain thing, and exclude other things, in the context of comic books.

 

I did not invent this definition. It was an organic definition that evolved as variants themselves did in the late 80's/early 90's.

 

Here's how to shut down your "pigeonholing" argument: my CGC 4.0 Batman #12 is different from your CGC 8.5 Batman #12. It has noticeable differences, not the least of which is wear, but also cut, color, size, page quality...etc etc etc.

 

Are these books variants of each other? Using your definition, absolutely.

 

Using the NARROWER definition that the industry/hobby has adopted, of course not.

 

And rightfully so.

[VintageComics]

What makes the books you are referring to Price Variants is the indicia. Generally, if the indicia says one price, and the cover says another, you have a price variant.

 

The Canadian editions everyone is trying to push off as Price Variants have the cover price match their indicia price. Therefore, they may be variants as your definition includes foreign editions, but they are not Price Variants.

 

Is that more clear?

 

Gotcha. So they are not Price Variants by the traditional meaning of the phrase and I can understand that. My point is that the term variant was created when there were only price variants for limited markets in the late 1970's but since then we have had many different types of variants come to our attention that the original term would also cover.

 

The Canadian "editions" are still a variant compared to the majority print run of the direct market (and US) edition though because the entire content of the book is the same except for the price and indicia being different.

 

So what do you call them if you don't call them a Canadian Newsstand Price variant?

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Guys, doesn't the word variant by definition (because it comes from the root "vary" or "to vary") mean that ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant?

 

This is the meaning of the word variant in the truest and simplest sense.

 

 

Stop being all logical and making sense Roy.

 

Really...?

 

Seriously...?

 

You're going with that...?

 

See my post above Roy's.

[comicwiz]

I'm talking about the early 1980's Marvel and DC's (and other participating publishers) who printed a newsstand variant to accommodate for the exchange rate difference between U.S. and Canada. Those were printed in the U.S.A. Check the copyright info.

 

I know what we are talking about, I was just mistaken in my belief that the majority of comic printing had moved to Canada by that time. Upon further inspection, it appears that only higher quality books were printed in Canada then. Regardless, the physical location of printing is still irrelevant to this discussion.

 

Which higher quality books are you talking about,

 

From a quick look at about a dozen Marvel and DC books from that period, anything not printed on newsprint.

 

and why is it irrelevant - because you said so?

 

As long as all copies of an issue are printed in the same place and at the same time, it doesn't matter if it is in the U.S., Canada, China, at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, or on the moon. Why would location of printing matter as far as variant discussion is concerned? If there is any relevance there, I really don't get it.

 

 

Just answer the question: which higher quality books are you referring to? First you mention that you were mistaken, and corrected yourself by concluding only "higher quality" books were printed in Canada. Which ones?

 

As for my comments, you will need to read what I said, in its context and not shredded and diced to support your own ambiguous thoughts and ideas.

 

If you really were concerned about keeping the discussion relevant, you wouldn't be so dismissive of the ideas and opinions being put forward. If you're not getting it, then wait for the article to help shed more light on the subject.

[ShieldAgent]

 

So what do you call them if you don't call them a Canadian Newsstand Price variant?

 

 

I simply refer to them as Canadian Editions. (thumbs u

[comicwiz]

Let me cut to the chase.

 

Canadians selling their Canadian editions want their books to be thought of as price variants, because they kind of resemble real price variants, and they want a premium for their otherwise worthless "as normal US editions" books.

 

Well, they are not price variants.

 

I will concede that a foreign edition is a variant of the regular newsstand edition, but it is still a foreign edition.

 

Your confusing the two so badly, that pushing a similarly crude comparison, it would be like saying a diamond, no date, no UPC 35¢ Star Wars 1 and a 35¢ Star Wars 1 test variant are one and the same.

[VintageComics]

Here's how to shut down your "pigeonholing" argument: my CGC 4.0 Batman #12 is different from your CGC 8.5 Batman #12. It has noticeable differences, not the least of which is wear, but also cut, color, size, page quality...etc etc etc.

 

Are these books variants of each other? Using your definition, absolutely.

 

Using the NARROWER definition that the industry/hobby has adopted, of course not.

 

And rightfully so.

 

Your analogy with the Batman #12 doesn't hold up because the printed content of books is identical.

 

The 'narrower' definition is a broad term that was coined when the hobby was in it's infancy. It only knew of one type of variant: the $0.30/$035 limited distribution variants. Even though it was a broad term covering a narrow cross section of comics it became the term of choice simply because it fit at the time.

 

Since then we've discovered or created many different types of variants: GA examples of Canadian price variants (the content is otherwise identical), purposefully printed variants (multiple covers, colors, etc), production error variants...the list continues to grow and new stuff is discovered all the time.

 

Let's call an ace an ace and a spade a spade. If a small cross section of comics have a significant but uniform difference from the majority of the print run it's a variant.

[Lazyboy]

Canadian Newsstand Editions are NOT "foreign editions" and are NOT "price variants."

 

If you want foreign editions, talk to Chespirito. If you want price variants, talk to... um, ShieldAgent and the Variant Mafia.

 

For the mid-80s books, Direct Market copies are the standard and then there are Newsstand variants and Canadian Newsstand variants. Period.

[ShieldAgent]

Let me cut to the chase.

 

Canadians selling their Canadian editions want their books to be thought of as price variants, because they kind of resemble real price variants, and they want a premium for their otherwise worthless "as normal US editions" books.

 

Well, they are not price variants.

 

I will concede that a foreign edition is a variant of the regular newsstand edition, but it is still a foreign edition.

 

Your confusing the two so badly, that pushing a similarly crude comparison, it would be like saying a diamond, no date, no UPC 35¢ Star Wars 1 and a 35¢ Star Wars 1 test variant are one and the same.

 

I would not say that.

 

So let me try something different: If a book is a price variant because the cover price does not match the indicia, please tell me how a canadian edition is a price variant?

[comicwiz]

Here's how to shut down your "pigeonholing" argument: my CGC 4.0 Batman #12 is different from your CGC 8.5 Batman #12. It has noticeable differences, not the least of which is wear, but also cut, color, size, page quality...etc etc etc.

 

Are these books variants of each other? Using your definition, absolutely.

 

Using the NARROWER definition that the industry/hobby has adopted, of course not.

 

And rightfully so.

 

Your analogy with the Batman #12 doesn't hold up because the printed content of books is identical.

 

The 'narrower' definition is a broad term that was coined when the hobby was in it's infancy. It only knew of one type of variant: the $0.30/$035 limited distribution variants. Even though it was a broad term covering a narrow cross section of comics it became the term of choice simply because it fit at the time.

 

Since then we've discovered or created many different types of variants: GA examples of Canadian price variants (the content is otherwise identical), purposefully printed variants (multiple covers, colors, etc), production error variants...the list continues to grow and new stuff is discovered all the time.

 

Let's call an ace an ace and a spade a spade. If a small cross section of comics have a significant but uniform difference from the majority of the print run it's a variant.

 

Roy, as I've indicated earlier in the thread, the GA examples of Timely (produced by Superior Comics) were printed in Canada and as such are foreign editions. The same goes for Dell and Atlas (produced by Bell Features Comics) which were also printed in Canada and as such are foreign editions. These are not variants.

[comicwiz]

Let me cut to the chase.

 

Canadians selling their Canadian editions want their books to be thought of as price variants, because they kind of resemble real price variants, and they want a premium for their otherwise worthless "as normal US editions" books.

 

Well, they are not price variants.

 

I will concede that a foreign edition is a variant of the regular newsstand edition, but it is still a foreign edition.

 

Your confusing the two so badly, that pushing a similarly crude comparison, it would be like saying a diamond, no date, no UPC 35¢ Star Wars 1 and a 35¢ Star Wars 1 test variant are one and the same.

 

I would not say that.

 

So let me try something different: If a book is a price variant because the cover price does not match the indicia, please tell me how a canadian edition is a price variant?

 

I've already explained it. Seriously Harry, it just doesn't get any easier than me saying its got everything to do with the 4 'W's' of their printing history.

[FlyingDonut]

just to stir the pot...

are the Canadian editions variations of the US editions?

 

I say yes.

 

Shield Agent says no

 

Comicwiz says yes

 

J_C says no

 

Roy says yes

 

RMA says no

 

and it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on.....

[RockMyAmadeus]

Here's how to shut down your "pigeonholing" argument: my CGC 4.0 Batman #12 is different from your CGC 8.5 Batman #12. It has noticeable differences, not the least of which is wear, but also cut, color, size, page quality...etc etc etc.

 

Are these books variants of each other? Using your definition, absolutely.

 

Using the NARROWER definition that the industry/hobby has adopted, of course not.

 

And rightfully so.

 

Your analogy with the Batman #12 doesn't hold up because the printed content of books is identical.

 

BS.

 

Let me quote:

 

Guys, doesn't the word variant by definition (because it comes from the root "vary" or "to vary") mean that ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant?

 

Does the word "ANY" now mean something other than ANY...? Are you now qualifying your original statement, since someone found the hole in it..? It would appear so....

 

Using YOUR definition, ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant.

 

Therefore, unless every copy of Batman #12 had exactly (I'll grant you non-mechanical standards, and just say "to the naked eye") the same cut, the same size, the same color, the same registry, the same centering...and they obviously did and do not...then...using YOUR definition...they are all variants of each other.

 

Just using YOUR definition.

 

The 'narrower' definition is a broad term that was coined when the hobby was in it's infancy.

 

Oh really?

 

Please show me an article that used the word "variant" in any published piece prior to the 1980's.

 

The hobby was in its infancy in the 1960's.

 

As for broad, broad with respect to what? Itself? The comics industry? Because something can be broad and still be a narrowER (please note the suffix I used in the original post...it was there for a reason) definition than the standard English language definition (and it is.)

 

It only knew of one type of variant: the $0.30/$035 limited distribution variants.

 

Since then we've discovered or created many different types of variants: GA examples of Canadian price variants (the content is otherwise identical), purposefully printed variants (multiple covers, colors, etc), production error variants...the list continues to grow and new stuff is discovered all the time.

 

One more time: there is no such thing as a "production error variant." A variant is something that was made ON PURPOSE. Errors already have a name: "errors."

 

 

[ShieldAgent]

just to stir the pot...

are the Canadian editions variations of the US editions?

 

I say yes.

 

Shield Agent says no

 

Comicwiz says yes

 

J_C says no

 

Roy says yes

 

RMA says no

 

and it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on.....

 

Dan

 

I say they are variations-- Just not price variants.

[FlyingDonut]

If a small cross section of comics have a significant but uniform difference from the majority of the print run it's a variant.

 

Of course it is. The small minority has a variation from the majority, so hence it is a variant. Semantic arguments are usually more fun than this.

[RockMyAmadeus]

just to stir the pot...

are the Canadian editions variations of the US editions?

 

RMA says no

 

 

No I don't.

 

Dork.

 

I'm not even talking about the price variants...

 

 

[FlyingDonut]

Here's how to shut down your "pigeonholing" argument: my CGC 4.0 Batman #12 is different from your CGC 8.5 Batman #12. It has noticeable differences, not the least of which is wear, but also cut, color, size, page quality...etc etc etc.

 

Are these books variants of each other? Using your definition, absolutely.

 

Using the NARROWER definition that the industry/hobby has adopted, of course not.

 

And rightfully so.

 

Your analogy with the Batman #12 doesn't hold up because the printed content of books is identical.

 

BS.

 

Let me quote:

 

Guys, doesn't the word variant by definition (because it comes from the root "vary" or "to vary") mean that ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant?

 

Does the word "ANY" now mean something other than ANY...? Are you now qualifying your original statement, since someone found the hole in it..? It would appear so....

 

Using YOUR definition, ANY noticeable difference makes it a variant.

 

Therefore, unless every copy of Batman #12 had exactly (I'll grant you non-mechanical standards, and just say "to the naked eye") the same cut, the same size, the same color, the same registry, the same centering...and they obviously did and do not...then...using YOUR definition...they are all variants of each other.

 

Just using YOUR definition.

 

The 'narrower' definition is a broad term that was coined when the hobby was in it's infancy.

 

Oh really?

 

Please show me an article that used the word "variant" in any published piece prior to the 1980's.

 

The hobby was in its infancy in the 1960's.

 

As for broad, broad with respect to what? Itself? The comics industry? Because something can be broad and still be a narrowER (please note the suffix I used in the original post...it was there for a reason) definition than the standard English language definition (and it is.)

 

It only knew of one type of variant: the $0.30/$035 limited distribution variants.

 

Since then we've discovered or created many different types of variants: GA examples of Canadian price variants (the content is otherwise identical), purposefully printed variants (multiple covers, colors, etc), production error variants...the list continues to grow and new stuff is discovered all the time.

 

One more time: there is no such thing as a "production error variant." A variant is something that was made ON PURPOSE. Errors already have a name: "errors."

 

 

Agree. There's no such thing as a production error variant, outside of an eBay title. Error copy is just fine.

 

BTW - the Gold Key Star Trek "photo covers" were labeled as "variants" as early as 1971 in ads in the RBCC. Not that it matters much.

[VintageComics]

Roy, as I've indicated earlier in the thread, the GA examples of Timely (produced by Superior Comics) were printed in Canada and as such are foreign editions. The same goes for Dell and Atlas (produced by Bell Features Comics) which were also printed in Canada and as such are foreign editions. These are not variants.

 

Joe, I understand what you mean when you sayforeign editions...they are different in content (ads, language, etc).

 

These price variations for Canadian markets (see how I did that?) are not Superior editions or foreign editions I am talking about. What these are, are 100% identical editions to the US ones that were likely printed on the same presses with only a price slug change that took the price from $0.10 to $0.15. They are extremely rare but they are out there. Check out your Overstreet guide and look at the entry for Batman #2.

 

I believe there is also a More Fun book with the same existing price variation for Canadian markets.

 

 

[FlyingDonut]

just to stir the pot...

are the Canadian editions variations of the US editions?

 

RMA says no

 

 

No I don't.

 

Dork.

 

I'm not even talking about the price variants...

 

 

W/E. I can't keep the arguments straight anymore. Agh.

[RockMyAmadeus]

If a small cross section of comics have a significant but uniform difference from the majority of the print run it's a variant.

 

Of course it is. The small minority has a variation from the majority, so hence it is a variant. Semantic arguments are usually more fun than this.

 

Oy.

 

Come on, guys. Seriously.

 

Quantify your numbers, Roy.

 

If 10 of a 10,000 print run has "double covers", does that mean it's "the double cover variant"..? 20? 50? 100?

 

And if my Silver Surfer #50 doesn't have any of the foil, it's a "foil missing variant"...? What if only 1/3 of the foil stuck? 1/2? What if it was adhered off-register?

 

See how silly this gets?

 

They alreadty have a word for these types of books: "errors."

 

Calling them "variants", when that definition contradicts the organic history of the word with respect to comic books is just silly.