OLD BLUE LABEL

[MarkWoodcock]

This probably isn't the correct place for this question but I'll start here........

 

Often, I see dealers trumpeting the fact that a book has the "old blue label"

 

So?

[bigfiver69]

Old label 9.2 = New label 9.4

 

Old label c/ow = new label ow

 

Discuss.

 

 

[tth2]

Generally tighter grading, generally tighter PQ, less likelihood that the book has been pressed, and zero likelihood that the book has been resubbed in 7 years or so.

[MarkWoodcock]

Generally tighter grading, generally tighter PQ, less likelihood that the book has been pressed, and zero likelihood that the book has been resubbed in 7 years or so.

 

 

Two things........

 

1. Was the tighter grading because of King Borock (who's my favorite guy in the hobby)?

 

2. Help me with this pressing thing. What's the difference between a book being pressed and the Mile High books that were on the bottom of the stacks and therefore pressed for over 30 years?

[rodan57]

[tth2]

Generally tighter grading, generally tighter PQ, less likelihood that the book has been pressed, and zero likelihood that the book has been resubbed in 7 years or so.

 

 

Two things........

 

1. Was the tighter grading because of King Borock (who's my favorite guy in the hobby)?

No clear answer on this, as he was still there when they went to the new label and got incredibly liberal with their grades. My personal opinion is that they were tighter in the beginning to establish their credibility, and then became looser over time due to market pressure.

 

2. Help me with this pressing thing. What's the difference between a book being pressed and the Mile High books that were on the bottom of the stacks and therefore pressed for over 30 years?

There are a zillion threads on this topic, too difficult to go into here, including about a million asking and answering the exact same question.

 

But no, I think even most of the pro-pressing faction would acknowledge that they're not the same thing.

[Flash105]

The problem with the old label is that the book may be damaged inside the holder. Take a look at the top left edge of this book. Was it like that when it went in the holder?

 

[mysterio]

Personally, I like the look of the old label better, and the fact that they still use traditional grading (VG, VF, NM, etc) alongside the numerical grading scale. I always hated that they completely abandoned traditional grading on the new labels. The numbers didn't replace the traditional grading scale, but the switch on the new label certainly implies that, IMHO.

 

I couldn't say either way on the grading itself. I haven't resubbed an old label book for a new grade, so I can't comment on tightness of grading. I do tend to disagree more with new label grades on books I own, but I have disagreed with some old label grades too.

 

Old labels are more desirable for me and plenty of others though, and I do prefer to buy them when I have a choice between old and new.

[Mark 1]

The problem with the old label is that the book may be damaged inside the holder. Take a look at the top left edge of this book. Was it like that when it went in the holder?

 

 

It certainly looks like the book was shaken or moved and it hit the inner well to cause that crease (that just so happens to fit the shape of the inner case).

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Generally tighter grading, generally tighter PQ, less likelihood that the book has been pressed, and zero likelihood that the book has been resubbed in 7 years or so.

 

 

Two things........

 

1. Was the tighter grading because of King Borock (who's my favorite guy in the hobby)?

 

I've seen no clear empirical evidence of this. The problem that muddies everything is that many of the resubmits we see to verify the hypothesis are being pressed and/or dry cleaned to obtain their higher grade, so in general, grades appear to be going up following resubmits. So how much of it is due to undetectable resto, and how much is due to looser standards? Quite difficult to say, I haven't seen anyone establish it.

[fantastic_four]

2. Help me with this pressing thing. What's the difference between a book being pressed and the Mile High books that were on the bottom of the stacks and therefore pressed for over 30 years?

 

The main difference is heat and more uniform pressure, and in some cases, intentionally-applied humidity...all of which is unlikely but possible to occur in natural storage environments. Pro pressing leaves no evidence that's both detectable and that you're able to determine was definitely not done by storage conditions but by a restoration attempt.

[Jeffro.]

The issue I have with the old label is the tiny print, making it very hard to read the grades in pictures, especially really tiny ebay pics

[fantastic_four]

The issue I have with the old label is the tiny print, making it very hard to read the grades in pictures, especially really tiny ebay pics

 

That was CGC's driving reason for changing it, the reason they publicly disclosed for the change.

[mysterio]

The issue I have with the old label is the tiny print, making it very hard to read the grades in pictures, especially really tiny ebay pics

 

I could see this, but then why not just increase the font size a bit? There was plenty of white space left on the label design for a font size bump.

 

If you can't read the label in an eBay photo that is the fault of the seller posting a crappy pic, and in that case their sale price ought to be dinged for bad presentation.

 

I like the smaller type for the bar code and serial number, as that way unscrupulous people have a harder time stealing serial numbers on books they don't own to add to registry sets.

[Jeffro.]

 

If you can't read the label in an eBay photo that is the fault of the seller posting a crappy pic, and in that case their sale price ought to be dinged for bad presentation.

 

Agreed. However, that was just an example. Another example is in this thread. Look at the sig line ASM pics above. If those weren't clickable (and therefore enlargable) links, then you'd never be able to read the grade. The new label grades, on the other hand are completely readable.

[fantastic_four]

If you can't read the label in an eBay photo that is the fault of the seller posting a crappy pic, and in that case their sale price ought to be dinged for bad presentation.

 

The use case Steve Borock pointed out was looking at CGC books at cons...they noticed that when looking at slabs up on dealer displays you could never see the grade without going really close to the book, so he wanted the grade to be visible from a reasonable distance.

[chromium]

I still believe the change was a perfect symbol of how CGC has changed the market.

 

When you now look at the slab, what do you see first ? The number not not the book !

And yes I said "number" not "grade". It's all about the number now, I always liked the VG/VF/NM etc designations, but numbers have come and conquered all.

 

[mysterio]

When you now look at the slab, what do you see first ? The number not not the book !

And yes I said "number" not "grade". It's all about the number now, I always liked the VG/VF/NM etc designations, but numbers have come and conquered all.

 

I have always felt this way too. Divorcing the numerical grade from the VG/VF/NM designations has always bugged me, and that has long been my biggest complaint about the new label. Making the number bigger is fine, but they never should have removed the grade initials in the process.

[lou_fine]

Old labelled books are definitely more desireable to me than the new labelled books to the point that I am usually more willing to place a slightly higher bid for them.

 

As already mentioned, the 2 primary reasons for this are:

 

1) Tighter and more consistent grading with the old labels and this most definitely has nothing at all to do with Borock. (thumbs u

 

2) Old labelled books have much less chance of being artifically manipulated and monkeyed around with, and this sad state of affairs definitely did have something to do with Borock/CGC and their philosophy.