FF 50 shenanigans on Pedigree?

[mrwoogieman]

I don't buy into Internet hype just because it is posted.

 

Are you saying the allegations as to his behavior are pure hype? The evidence I've seen is far more compelling than that...are you sure you're not just dismissing it or never looked at the evidence in the first place?

 

I think what he's saying, and I don't want to speak for him, is that

 

Doug Schmell, disbarred NY lawyer, does not impact his decision to buy comics from Doug Schmell, Florida-based comic book dealer, and that the 'transgressions' of the comic book dealer are sensationalized based upon his past rather than on their own merits.

 

[Mark 1]

I don't buy into Internet hype just because it is posted.

 

Are you saying the allegations as to his behavior are pure hype? The evidence I've seen is far more compelling than that...are you sure you're not just dismissing it or never looked at the evidence in the first place?

 

No I'm not dismissing it. I am fully aware of these allegations (and facts) and also the situation with his Law practice.

 

They are compelling and certainly enough for some to not want to do business with someone with that kind of past. I understand and do not question those decisions.

 

All I am saying is I base my own opinions on the behavior of the person when they deal with me. So far, I have had no reason to say anything negative about Pedigree or Doug.

 

I've had positive experiences buying several TOS books from him. That is all.

 

I haven't sold anything with Pedigree nor have I been witness to unscrupulous business practices.

 

To each his own. When I used the word hype...I meant Internet piling...there is a phenomenon that happens where people who haven't done any biz with someone...they just take the words on a forum for gospel and that means 100% of what is written somehow becomes the truth.

 

I know I might be the minority here who has had a positive experience. That's okay. Just sharing it. Take it for what it is ... Just one person who hasn't had anything negative to post about Doug or Pedigree...I hope I can continue to get good books from him at fair prices and have quality service. That's all I can ask for when making purchases.

 

I also enjoy buying from others on this site and have only had positive experiences so far. With that said, I hope it stays that way.

 

I also respect everyone's opinion here and I AM NOT dismissing any of it.

 

 

 

[Mark 1]

I don't buy into Internet hype just because it is posted.

 

Are you saying the allegations as to his behavior are pure hype? The evidence I've seen is far more compelling than that...are you sure you're not just dismissing it or never looked at the evidence in the first place?

 

I think what he's saying, and I don't want to speak for him, is that

 

Doug Schmell, disbarred NY lawyer, does not impact his decision to buy comics from Doug Schmell, Florida-based comic book dealer, and that the 'transgressions' of the comic book dealer are sensationalized based upon his past rather than on their own merits.

 

 

Nope...read above and you will see...

[TheWatcher]

I know most here prefer not to deal with Doug

 

My guess would be that the reality is quite the opposite

[bluechip]

Bob, Steve Borock stated numerous times during his tenure that if someone could come up with a better slab design to manage what we call SCS that they [CGC] would take an interest in it.

 

I just think that this is the best that anyone has come up with up until now.

 

 

I wasn't aware of that but I could make a very simple suggestion. A clear backing board of some kind would do wonders. There is a reason people started used them in mylars. They keep the book from bending and they add pressure to it, which keeps it from sliding around and bumping the edge of the container.

[bluechip]

Bob, Steve Borock stated numerous times during his tenure that if someone could come up with a better slab design to manage what we call SCS that they [CGC] would take an interest in it.

 

I just think that this is the best that anyone has come up with up until now.

 

 

Comic books are a cheaply-produced, fragile item...it's a tall order to design an enclosure that prevents excessive force from damaging them.

 

Of course.

 

People think because the book is encased in plastic that it can be thrown across the room, submerged in a pool (true story) or put under a dumbbell that the book should not get harmed.

 

If the book is handled well and treated well it's generally going to be fine whether inside a slab or not. Consequently, nothing is really insufficiently_thoughtful_person proof and if a slab is packaged and mailed improperly or handled improperly the thing is going to get damaged.

 

Of course the standard shouldn't be that the book should survive being tossed in a pool. But it can easily meet the standard of protecting the book as well as it would be in a simple mylar with a backing board, stuck between two pieces of cardboard and sent through the mail.

 

I've seen books that were packaged well enough to protect the slab, but the book inside it was not protected because it was able to slide around inside the slab. That doesn't happen with books pressed flat inside simple mylar with backing boards because the book itself doesn't move. A hard clear backing board would add a lot of protection.

 

 

[supapimp]

doesn't bob or namisgr have a FF 50 CGC 9.4 for sale? i've seen it in the past FS threads, and i think it's a pedigree to boot.

[fantastic_four]

I wasn't aware of that but I could make a very simple suggestion. A clear backing board of some kind would do wonders. There is a reason people started used them in mylars. They keep the book from bending and they add pressure to it, which keeps it from sliding around and bumping the edge of the container.

 

Borock said in the past that their original case design kept books statically in place...and while testing this, they found that a hard fall would sometimes rip the interior off of the cover which clearly is worse than any chance for SCS.

 

A suggestion from past threads about this that I don't recall Borock addressing is that a key element in the Mylar environment that's not present in the CGC case is the tapered edges a Mylar has. As a book approaches the edge of a Mylar, it doesn't hit a hard edge, it starts to get smooshed inside of the tapered edges...I still wonder if tapered edges on the CGC interior case would avoid SCS better than the current design.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

No I'm not dismissing it. I am fully aware of these allegations (and facts) and also the situation with his Law practice.

 

They are compelling and certainly enough for some to not want to do business with someone with that kind of past.

 

All I am saying is I base my own opinions on the behavior of the person when they deal with me. So far, I have had no reason to say anything negative about Pedigree or Doug.

 

I've had positive experiences buying several TOS books from him. That is all.

 

I haven't sold anything with Pedigree nor have I been witness to unscrupulous business practices.

 

To each his own.

 

I also respect everyone's opinion here and I AM NOT dismissing any of it.

 

 

 

Forgive me for plucking just some of your comments out here but I just wanted to weigh in on one aspect of what you're saying.

 

So you don't dismiss what people are saying about Doug. You are aware of the factual shenanigans he's been embroiled in.

 

And you know that he engages in some, let's say less than above board practices when it comes to selling comics.

 

Given that, your reasoning for continuing to deal with him is b/c he hasn't personally ed you over.

 

Well, that's your right of course. But I simply don't understand it. And I guess I don't have to. It just baffles me. I mean, would you trust a convicted child molester to watch your kids simply b/c he hasn't actually molested your kids? Obviously you wouldn't and I know that's an extreme example but that's what I gather by your line of thinking.

 

Personally, I don't like to put myself into a position to find out "the hard way". Why wait for the other shoe to drop?

 

But you're right, to each his own.

[G.A.tor]

Bob, Steve Borock stated numerous times during his tenure that if someone could come up with a better slab design to manage what we call SCS that they [CGC] would take an interest in it.

 

I just think that this is the best that anyone has come up with up until now.

 

 

Comic books are a cheaply-produced, fragile item...it's a tall order to design an enclosure that prevents excessive force from damaging them.

 

Of course.

 

People think because the book is encased in plastic that it can be thrown across the room, submerged in a pool (true story) or put under a dumbbell that the book should not get harmed.

 

If the book is handled well and treated well it's generally going to be fine whether inside a slab or not. Consequently, nothing is really insufficiently_thoughtful_person proof and if a slab is packaged and mailed improperly or handled improperly the thing is going to get damaged.

 

Of course the standard shouldn't be that the book should survive being tossed in a pool. But it can easily meet the standard of protecting the book as well as it would be in a simple mylar with a backing board, stuck between two pieces of cardboard and sent through the mail.

 

I've seen books that were packaged well enough to protect the slab, but the book inside it was not protected because it was able to slide around inside the slab. That doesn't happen with books pressed flat inside simple mylar with backing boards because the book itself doesn't move. A hard clear backing board would add a lot of protection.

 

interesting...hard clear backing board would certainly be neat, but also add expense, etc... I wonder

[VintageComics]

Bob, Steve Borock stated numerous times during his tenure that if someone could come up with a better slab design to manage what we call SCS that they [CGC] would take an interest in it.

 

I just think that this is the best that anyone has come up with up until now.

 

 

Comic books are a cheaply-produced, fragile item...it's a tall order to design an enclosure that prevents excessive force from damaging them.

 

Of course.

 

People think because the book is encased in plastic that it can be thrown across the room, submerged in a pool (true story) or put under a dumbbell that the book should not get harmed.

 

If the book is handled well and treated well it's generally going to be fine whether inside a slab or not. Consequently, nothing is really insufficiently_thoughtful_person proof and if a slab is packaged and mailed improperly or handled improperly the thing is going to get damaged.

 

Of course the standard shouldn't be that the book should survive being tossed in a pool. But it can easily meet the standard of protecting the book as well as it would be in a simple mylar with a backing board, stuck between two pieces of cardboard and sent through the mail.

 

I've seen books that were packaged well enough to protect the slab, but the book inside it was not protected because it was able to slide around inside the slab. That doesn't happen with books pressed flat inside simple mylar with backing boards because the book itself doesn't move. A hard clear backing board would add a lot of protection.

 

interesting...hard clear backing board would certainly be neat, but also add expense, etc... I wonder

 

...and heavy.

 

I bought a box of them and they are incredibly heavy...and about $1-2 each.

[shadroch]

Thats what I was thinking, as well. A CGC box is heavy enough, I'd rather not add another 15 pounds to it.

[Flaming_Telepath]

 

No I'm not dismissing it. I am fully aware of these allegations (and facts) and also the situation with his Law practice.

 

They are compelling and certainly enough for some to not want to do business with someone with that kind of past.

 

All I am saying is I base my own opinions on the behavior of the person when they deal with me. So far, I have had no reason to say anything negative about Pedigree or Doug.

 

I've had positive experiences buying several TOS books from him. That is all.

 

I haven't sold anything with Pedigree nor have I been witness to unscrupulous business practices.

 

To each his own.

 

I also respect everyone's opinion here and I AM NOT dismissing any of it.

 

 

 

Forgive me for plucking just some of your comments out here but I just wanted to weigh in on one aspect of what you're saying.

 

So you don't dismiss what people are saying about Doug. You are aware of the factual shenanigans he's been embroiled in.

 

And you know that he engages in some, let's say less than above board practices when it comes to selling comics.

 

Given that, your reasoning for continuing to deal with him is b/c he hasn't personally ed you over.

 

Well, that's your right of course. But I simply don't understand it. And I guess I don't have to. It just baffles me. I mean, would you trust a convicted child molester to watch your kids simply b/c he hasn't actually molested your kids? Obviously you wouldn't and I know that's an extreme example but that's what I gather by your line of thinking.

 

Personally, I don't like to put myself into a position to find out "the hard way". Why wait for the other shoe to drop?

 

But you're right, to each his own.

 

 

Correct.

 

Additionally, by giving him your custom, you are keeping him afloat and in a position to continue to monkey with the market. Because make no mistake, because of his practices, somebody somewhere is getting screwed over and the simple fact that it isn't you doesn't justify continued patronage.

 

We are supposed to be a 'community' but too often, we sure as sh!te don't behave like one.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Bob, Steve Borock stated numerous times during his tenure that if someone could come up with a better slab design to manage what we call SCS that they [CGC] would take an interest in it.

 

I just think that this is the best that anyone has come up with up until now.

 

 

Comic books are a cheaply-produced, fragile item...it's a tall order to design an enclosure that prevents excessive force from damaging them.

 

Of course.

 

People think because the book is encased in plastic that it can be thrown across the room, submerged in a pool (true story) or put under a dumbbell that the book should not get harmed.

 

If the book is handled well and treated well it's generally going to be fine whether inside a slab or not. Consequently, nothing is really insufficiently_thoughtful_person proof and if a slab is packaged and mailed improperly or handled improperly the thing is going to get damaged.

 

Of course the standard shouldn't be that the book should survive being tossed in a pool. But it can easily meet the standard of protecting the book as well as it would be in a simple mylar with a backing board, stuck between two pieces of cardboard and sent through the mail.

 

I've seen books that were packaged well enough to protect the slab, but the book inside it was not protected because it was able to slide around inside the slab. That doesn't happen with books pressed flat inside simple mylar with backing boards because the book itself doesn't move. A hard clear backing board would add a lot of protection.

 

interesting...hard clear backing board would certainly be neat, but also add expense, etc... I wonder

 

...and heavy.

 

I bought a box of them and they are incredibly heavy...and about $1-2 each.

 

Seems like a small price to pay to potentially avoid something that could cause you a .2 bump or more and maybe many thousands of dollars? Maybe if it were an option you could check off, like paying the couple of bucks for scans of your recently slabbed books.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

No I'm not dismissing it. I am fully aware of these allegations (and facts) and also the situation with his Law practice.

 

They are compelling and certainly enough for some to not want to do business with someone with that kind of past.

 

All I am saying is I base my own opinions on the behavior of the person when they deal with me. So far, I have had no reason to say anything negative about Pedigree or Doug.

 

I've had positive experiences buying several TOS books from him. That is all.

 

I haven't sold anything with Pedigree nor have I been witness to unscrupulous business practices.

 

To each his own.

 

I also respect everyone's opinion here and I AM NOT dismissing any of it.

 

 

 

Forgive me for plucking just some of your comments out here but I just wanted to weigh in on one aspect of what you're saying.

 

So you don't dismiss what people are saying about Doug. You are aware of the factual shenanigans he's been embroiled in.

 

And you know that he engages in some, let's say less than above board practices when it comes to selling comics.

 

Given that, your reasoning for continuing to deal with him is b/c he hasn't personally ed you over.

 

Well, that's your right of course. But I simply don't understand it. And I guess I don't have to. It just baffles me. I mean, would you trust a convicted child molester to watch your kids simply b/c he hasn't actually molested your kids? Obviously you wouldn't and I know that's an extreme example but that's what I gather by your line of thinking.

 

Personally, I don't like to put myself into a position to find out "the hard way". Why wait for the other shoe to drop?

 

But you're right, to each his own.

 

 

Correct.

 

Additionally, by giving him your custom, you are keeping him afloat and in a position to continue to monkey with the market. Because make no mistake, because of his practices, somebody somewhere is getting screwed over and the simple fact that it isn't you doesn't justify continued patronage.

 

We are supposed to be a 'community' but too often, we sure as sh!te don't behave like one.

 

 

Hey, why should we listen to you? You can't even grade.

 

Got any GA you want to sell me.

[DiceX]

What's going on in here?

 

 

[hockey&comicsguy]

What's going on in here?

 

 

I gotta ask you, what flick is that Alba clip from? That's hilarious. Looks like some kiddy flick but that kid's reaction is akin to creaming in one's knickers. That's probably how I would react to if she sucked on any of my extremities.

[fantastic_four]

Additionally, by giving him your custom, you are keeping him afloat and in a position to continue to monkey with the market. Because make no mistake, because of his practices, somebody somewhere is getting screwed over and the simple fact that it isn't you doesn't justify continued patronage.

 

When I weigh Doug's unethical behavior against Josh's ethical act of refusing to submit data to GPA, I estimate that Josh is affecting me more adversely than Doug is. That doesn't mean I like what he's doing, just that its impact on me--and everyone--is minimal. I wish he'd stop peeing in the pool, but I'm not ready to kick him out of the apartment complex for it.

[DiceX]

That's probably how I would react to if she sucked on any of my extremities.

 

I don't know what my reaction would be, but I'm willing to try it to find out.

 

 

[Transplant]

Additionally, by giving him your custom, you are keeping him afloat and in a position to continue to monkey with the market. Because make no mistake, because of his practices, somebody somewhere is getting screwed over and the simple fact that it isn't you doesn't justify continued patronage.

 

When I weigh Doug's unethical behavior against Josh's ethical act of refusing to submit data to GPA, I estimate that Josh is affecting me more adversely than Doug is. That doesn't mean I like what he's doing, just that its impact on me--and everyone--is minimal. I wish he'd stop peeing in the pool, but I'm not ready to kick him out of the apartment complex for it.

So submitting false data is not as bad as not submitting data at all?