My EBAY Nightmare

[RockMyAmadeus]

The $14,500 final price is certainly a fair price.

 

But....

 

Just because the result was reasonable does not mean it's acceptable, in light of the circumstances. If there was an eBay error...and granted, we still don't know that there was for sure, but the evidence indicates *something* happened, not just "seller's remorse", as some CSRs have suggested...then a do-over would be the fairest solution, irrespective of the various theories as to what happened and why.

 

Nobody but eBay really knows what happened (and that will likely stay that way.) eBay is certainly not out anything, and they stand to gain if the bidding ends up higher than the original amount anyways. At the very least, it would give the seller peace of mind. That alone is worth it.

[TempusFugitivus]

Holy.................

I last posted on page 7 of this thread and then had a wife-enforced vacation from all things comical for the last few days.

 

Just reading through it all made my brain hurt.

 

I would like to thank all those who stood up for me as an honest person (though as was pointed out, if I was not, why in God's name would I have posted any of this at all) and RockMyAmadeus......All I've got to say is that, when I have to stand up in front the Lord or the Devil on Judgment Day, I want you as my advocate.

 

PROOF

Of course, most of the thread boils down to proof. Do I have incontrovertible proof that all this was ebay's fault? Of course not. But the preponderance of the evidence led me to believe that I had been cheated. In all, six people contacted me that they had problems bidding on the auction. Five people right after the auction and one later. Four people said they were timed out by the verification process and two people claimed that they had verified but then had their bids timed out anyways [by this they meant they put the bids down in time but they did not register with one claiming that there was 15 seconds left and the other 16 seconds].

 

If it was just one or maybe two, it could be chalked up to sour grapes. But 6? All telling the same story?

 

EBAY

My first contact with ebay was through their chat option. Some of which I posted as I copied it. That was within an hour after the auction ended as I had immediately gotten four messages (another came while I wasted time chatting). As is obvious, that chat was useless. However, over the next several days, I talked on the phone to multiple ebay reps. From these conversations, it was confirmed to me that: 1) verification caused me a problem, 2) the ebay members who had e-mailed me should not have had this problem [i gave the reps their ids], 3) two of the claimants did immediately claim that they registered and were frozen out to ebay, and 4) they -ebay- could not explain or understand what or why it had happened.

 

I must admit that the ebay reps were, as a whole, contradictory and clueless. Not one mentioned to me that the verification limit that caused me problems was 15k not 10k. I had to learn that here. One interesting thing is that I asked each bidder that contacted me (or had already been told in their anger) what they were trying to put down for their high bid. Four of the six bidders replied. Sure looks like the 15k limitation.

 

18,133.33 Bidder1

16,975.00 Bidder2

16,500.00 Bidder3

16,000.00 Bidder4

 

After a couple of days of conversation with ebay, I was convinced of one thing. I got (powerdrilled) and it was ebay's fault.

 

I should mention one other thing which I am not sure is important. My son and I actually had a strategy. This auction was the end result of one month's worth of over-lapping auctions. As my son put it, you want to get people aware of what you are selling and have them see that more is coming. So the auctions lasted 10 days and were ending each Sunday (with some other lesser stuff on Wednesdays) pretty much all high grade Spider-Mans and X-Mens for one month straight.

 

The ASM 1, 2 and XM 1 were the end point of the strategy. Basically, in one month, we were at 80k in sales and rising. Paypal restricted my access to my account the day after this ending auction. I do not know if it was truly because I complained (which I immediately assumed) or, more simply, because I generated so much revenue so quickly. I have thought that perhaps there was some restriction put on my ebay account beforehand that interfered with the auction. But, of course, that is complete conjecture. I really do not know.

 

GPA

One thing that surprised me is that multiple people said I should have been satisfied with the result because the last GPA sale for an ASM 1 was for 14,500 and this is exactly what my book sold for. It always boogles my mind how people use GPA, a very blunt instrument. I remember that book that went for 14.5k. It was not comparable in quality to my copy (color, cut, or pages) in any way. To simply quote GPA in this way is nothing but intellectual laziness

 

A more accurate representation of GPA would be that ASM1s in cgc 8.0 sold for 7 to 9k in 2003 when GPA first recorded sales data and have been steadily rising in price ever since with one going for 15,000 in 2008; no sales at all in 2009, and then a GPA record of 16,730 in early 2010 before an inferior copy sold for 14,500 in mid-2010. However, as I stated, I would have had no complaints if I believed the auction to be fair. But at 14.5k, this book was a steal not a deal.

 

HIGH BIDDER

It also surprised me how many people had sympathy for the High bidder, Carsonjj. As far as I'm concerned, this clown deserves no sympathy at all. He refused to engage in any dialogue with me and then called me a (rhymes with bunt). Even if he had been the high bidder at some sort of ridiculous GPA record, I would have told him to take a hike the minute he disrespected me like that. There is more to life than money.

 

Of course, people's respect level probably differs.

 

And, of course, he has now proven his (lack of) quality in other ways. He promised me that he would get me banned from ebay. He contacted ebay and told them that I tried to extort more money from him. He even put it in his negative. Apparently he is too dumb to know that ebay can read our ebay sent e-mails. All I ever asked him to do was cancel the auction out of fairness.

 

I cannot express how happy I am that I did not sell to this guy.

 

[somewhere I saw a post that said: "At least, the high bidder waited to leave a negative." There is a little more to that story too. In every e-mail between us, I basically told him to leave a negative as it was obvious that he was going to. He ended up complaining to ebay about it. Classic reverse psychology- by telling him to do it, I took the joy of actually doing it away from him.]

 

In any case, this will be my final post on the subject (promise to my wife).

From now on, I'll just be in the buying and selling forums, minding my own bloody business (like I should have done in the first place). Good thing she doesn't know I'm up all night writing this.

 

 

[KryptoSpidey]

This is the first post actually regarding the topic worth reading since page 7...

[RockMyAmadeus]

RockMyAmadeus......All I've got to say is that, when I have to stand up in front the Lord or the Devil on Judgment Day, I want you as my advocate.

 

 

Thanks, TF. That makes all the trashing of me worth it. It's nice to see all the additional details laid out like that. Thanks for making my night.

[lizards2]

This is the first post actually regarding the topic worth reading since page 7...

I actually thought the one just before you was better.

[Jeffro.]

I see no evidence at all that the ebay software messed up.

 

Are you employed by ebay for tech support? Because otherwise, you have no idea what did or didn't happen. I don't either.

 

 

[KryptoSpidey]

This is the first post actually regarding the topic worth reading since page 7...

I actually thought the one just before you was better.

Yea,that's what i was referring to,i just didn't want to "quote" the whole post and take up huge page space.

[Thomas Nielsen]

Do I have incontrovertible proof that all this was ebay's fault? Of course not.

 

six people contacted me that they had problems bidding on the auction. Five people right after the auction and one later.

 

Four people said they were timed out by the verification process

 

That leaves two

 

and two people claimed that they had verified but then had their bids timed out anyways

 

 

If it was just one or maybe two, it could be chalked up to sour grapes. But 6?

It was just 2, you just said: Four people said they were timed out by the verification process

 

 

Sure looks like the 15k limitation.

 

18,133.33 Bidder1

16,975.00 Bidder2

16,500.00 Bidder3

16,000.00 Bidder4

 

Same four that was timed out by the verification process perhaps ?

 

 

I don't think Ebay is at fault here.

[lizards2]

This is the first post actually regarding the topic worth reading since page 7...

I actually thought the one just before you was better.

Yea,that's what i was referring to,i just didn't want to "quote" the whole post and take up huge page space.

And you call yourself a comic snob....,

[KryptoSpidey]

This is the first post actually regarding the topic worth reading since page 7...

I actually thought the one just before you was better.

Yea,that's what i was referring to,i just didn't want to "quote" the whole post and take up huge page space.

And you call yourself a comic snob....,

[fantastic_four]

The $14,500 final price is certainly a fair price.

 

But....

 

Just because the result was reasonable does not mean it's acceptable, in light of the circumstances.

 

I watch the high-grade Silver Spidey market closely, and in the current marketplace, it's 50/50 odds that the book would fetch a price even that high upon a second auction. If it were mine I'd hold onto it for another 6-24 months, could be more if the economy worsens, or simply list it at a set price in the $16K to $19K range for a while. If he's set on selling it now and tosses it up on ComicLink with no reserve, it's a crapshoot as to whether all of this worry will have been for naught...but who knows, maybe he'll roll sevens and set the record E-Bay just screwed him out of!

[GGA_Fan]

That truly is a NIGHTMARE. I'm shocked. I guess no one should assume that eBay's system is flawless. I wonder if there are eBay or Paypal Seller nightmares for book sales of less that $3,000?

[GGA_Fan]

Let me correct that: I wonder if there are eBay or Paypal Seller nightmares for comic book sales of less that $10,000?

[VintageComics]

The $14,500 final price is certainly a fair price.

 

But....

 

Just because the result was reasonable does not mean it's acceptable, in light of the circumstances.

 

I watch the high-grade Silver Spidey market closely, and in the current marketplace, it's 50/50 odds that the book would fetch a price even that high upon a second auction. If it were mine I'd hold onto it for another 6-24 months, could be more if the economy worsens, or simply list it at a set price in the $16K to $19K range for a while. If he's set on selling it now and tosses it up on ComicLink with no reserve, it's a crapshoot as to whether all of this worry will have been for naught...but who knows, maybe he'll roll sevens and set the record E-Bay just screwed him out of!

 

One thing is for sure and that is that people now buy the book and not just the grade. If you have a book with strong eye appeal and page quality it's going to fetch stronger money than an inferior book all day long. That's been my experience no matter where I sell the book.

 

Many of the OP's books were going for strong money for just that reason. It's safe to assume that the ASM #1 would have followed the same pattern.

[fantastic_four]

The tremendous upside with Spidey #1 is that unlike most other Marvel keys, it didn't experience exponential growth in 2007-2008, so I don't expect it to be as flat as AF15/FF1/JIM 83/Avengers 1 for the next year or two. That's another reason I'd hold it for a bit longer--it's difficult to envision another similar book that's sure to be a better investment, money in a high-grade Spidey 1 is solid, which is the exact reason I bought Spidey 1 last year before getting a nice AF15. I'm sure his priorities are different.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Do I have incontrovertible proof that all this was ebay's fault? Of course not.

 

six people contacted me that they had problems bidding on the auction. Five people right after the auction and one later.

 

Four people said they were timed out by the verification process

 

That leaves two

 

and two people claimed that they had verified but then had their bids timed out anyways

 

 

If it was just one or maybe two, it could be chalked up to sour grapes. But 6?

It was just 2, you just said: Four people said they were timed out by the verification process

 

 

Sure looks like the 15k limitation.

 

18,133.33 Bidder1

16,975.00 Bidder2

16,500.00 Bidder3

16,000.00 Bidder4

 

Same four that was timed out by the verification process perhaps ?

 

 

I don't think Ebay is at fault here.

 

[VintageComics]

But doesn't that seem strange, or am I missing something here?

 

In my experience as both a buyer and a seller, the largest bids get sniped in at the end.

 

I don't find it strange at all.

 

In your experience, you've had MULTIPLE unverified (no credit card on file) bidders throwing out $15,000 bids, yet not knowing they had to be verified to make a bid like that?

That sounds like someone NEW to eBay. Yet savvy enough to try and snipe an auction... I'm not trying to be a smart-a&&, but I want to make sure you see the point I'm trying to make.

 

I was simply replying to the fact that it is common for people to throw their highest bids in right at the end of the auction...regardless of dollar amount.

 

Sorry, I missed your point.

[fantastic_four]

In your experience, you've had MULTIPLE unverified (no credit card on file) bidders throwing out $15,000 bids, yet not knowing they had to be verified to make a bid like that?

That sounds like someone NEW to eBay. Yet savvy enough to try and snipe an auction... I'm not trying to be a smart-a&&, but I want to make sure you see the point I'm trying to make.

 

I was simply replying to the fact that it is common for people to throw their highest bids in right at the end of the auction...regardless of dollar amount.

 

Sorry, I missed your point.

 

I've been on ebay since 1999 or 2000, but I had no idea about this over-$10K verification thing. But then again, I'd never buy a book at that price from E-Bay in the first place unless it was an established dealer with something to lose if they screwed me, so there's little way I'd know as I rarely see dealers list books of that caliber on ebay.

[VintageComics]

In your experience, you've had MULTIPLE unverified (no credit card on file) bidders throwing out $15,000 bids, yet not knowing they had to be verified to make a bid like that?

That sounds like someone NEW to eBay. Yet savvy enough to try and snipe an auction... I'm not trying to be a smart-a&&, but I want to make sure you see the point I'm trying to make.

 

I was simply replying to the fact that it is common for people to throw their highest bids in right at the end of the auction...regardless of dollar amount.

 

Sorry, I missed your point.

 

I've been on ebay since 1999 or 2000, but I had no idea about this over-$10K verification thing. But then again, I'd never buy a book at that price from E-Bay in the first place unless it was an established dealer with something to lose if they screwed me, so there's little way I'd know as I rarely see dealers list books of that caliber on ebay anymore.

 

I remember in the early to mid 2000's you could expect to see almost anything under the sun on eBay from Action #1 to ASM #300. It was awesome!

[Thomas Nielsen]

 

 

Slam you forehead all you want.

 

My point was: As i read it (mind you english is my 3rd language so..) there where only two who did not get their bid placed in time (4 was busy verifying)

 

This could be for a number of reasons. Others mention lag, well, just 3-4 weeks ago i was watching one of ffcomics (i think) auctions for the last 3mins.

I noticed something hinky with the countdown clock, pressed refresh/F5 and sure enough there was LESS time left then i thought.

 

Now, i use firefox and i'll have 10-12 tabs open at any given time, so it could well be that because i had to much carp running on my pc the countdown clock was off, who the hell knows.

 

And just to be clear, i'm not choosing anyones side here, i dislike all of you argumentative a holes equally

 

Have a nice day.