My EBAY Nightmare

[Designer Toast]

I feel a potential coming...

[cheetah]

I wonder how many people do and don't know who Tempus is.

 

Should we care? Does it make any difference?

 

, probably not. He's just hardly a noob to eBay.

[BOOT]

This "nightmare" is of the original poster's own making.

 

From eBay's "Selling Practices Policy," part of the eBay User Agreement all eBay users agree to:

 

"You must ensure the items you are offering are in stock for the duration of the listing and are delivered to the buyer, unless the buyer doesn't meet the terms of your listing."

 

eBay User Agreement

eBay Listing Rules

eBay Selling Practices Policy

 

Despite all the spinning and enabling here, it seems the original poster did not meet his obligation as a seller.

 

Not only that, it seems he did not follow through on the deal he had with his own son.

[VintageComics]

Ebay puts food on my table and keeps my family from being homeless. Shame on those who foolishly attack a great company like Ebay.

 

 

[DR.X]

Ebay puts food on my table and keeps my family from being homeless. Shame on those who foolishly attack a great company like Ebay.

 

 

 

 

 

DRX

[lotemo]

Maybe the seller can add a disclaimer to the auction description:

 

 

In the event computer or human errors not all bids will be honored. This includes power failures, acts of god, and network malfunctions. Basically if we think there's a final bid problem we can cancel you bid.

 

This, known also as force majeure in legal jargon, is pretty standard. Assuming that this "glitch" was an automated verification process, and a technical problem (i.e. power, hardware or software failure) prevented a bidder from participating, then IMHO it does not even need to be disclaimed as long as it can be proven that something went wrong on eBay's end. The extent of interference that prevented the 17K bid from going through is unknown.

 

If we're talking about a manual verification process that needs to be interpreted and reviewed by a person, and something came in the way of that process finalizing, then it falls under negligence. Using the disclaimer above wouldn't be enough to cover negligence or malfeasance, and the inclusion of text to expand on either of the two would scream "shady" seller. If I were eBay, I'd certainly want to understand completely what happened, and be totally transparent about it because it isn't every day that you have a bidder willing to plunk down that kind of money, especially in this tough economy. Telling a seller (and eBay customer) "Well, that's just too bad for you" is horrendously poor business sense, and the kind of PR that will drive business to alternative consignment and auction sites.

 

This doesn't sound like "force majeure." Force majeure refers to the party of a contract being unable to fulfill their part of an agreement due to extraordinary circumstances such as natural disasters or war. Both parties in this case were capable of fulfilliing their end of the contract.

 

I don't see how electronic or clerical glitches for last minute ebay bidders differs any from someone's car breaking down on the way to a live auction. The person in the car would have been the highest bidder but was unable to make it to the auction before the hammer fell. The seller in that live auction scenario would be bound by the auction results with the bidder that was present and able to bid. He would have no legal right to say he wasn't going to sell because he knew that another bidder, who would have bid higher, wasn't able to make it due to car troubles.

 

By the same token, if the seller has the right to back out of the auction in this case, would that also be true if potential buyers had said that they couldn't bid because their ISP went down in the final seconds of the auction and they were going to enter higher bids?

 

I agree with skypinkblu's post. We take certain risks when auctioning on ebay, especially without reserve. You sometimes have to take the bad with the good.

[comicwiz]

Maybe the seller can add a disclaimer to the auction description:

 

 

In the event computer or human errors not all bids will be honored. This includes power failures, acts of god, and network malfunctions. Basically if we think there's a final bid problem we can cancel you bid.

 

This, known also as force majeure in legal jargon, is pretty standard. Assuming that this "glitch" was an automated verification process, and a technical problem (i.e. power, hardware or software failure) prevented a bidder from participating, then IMHO it does not even need to be disclaimed as long as it can be proven that something went wrong on eBay's end. The extent of interference that prevented the 17K bid from going through is unknown.

 

If we're talking about a manual verification process that needs to be interpreted and reviewed by a person, and something came in the way of that process finalizing, then it falls under negligence. Using the disclaimer above wouldn't be enough to cover negligence or malfeasance, and the inclusion of text to expand on either of the two would scream "shady" seller. If I were eBay, I'd certainly want to understand completely what happened, and be totally transparent about it because it isn't every day that you have a bidder willing to plunk down that kind of money, especially in this tough economy. Telling a seller (and eBay customer) "Well, that's just too bad for you" is horrendously poor business sense, and the kind of PR that will drive business to alternative consignment and auction sites.

 

This doesn't sound like "force majeure." Force majeure refers to the party of a contract being unable to fulfill their part of an agreement due to extraordinary circumstances such as natural disasters or war. Both parties in this case were capable of fulfilliing their end of the contract.

 

I don't see how electronic or clerical glitches for last minute ebay bidders differs any from someone's car breaking down on the way to a live auction. The person in the car would have been the highest bidder but was unable to make it to the auction before the hammer fell. The seller in that live auction scenario would be bound by the auction results with the bidder that was present and able to bid. He would have no legal right to say he wasn't going to sell because he knew that another bidder, who would have bid higher, wasn't able to make it due to car troubles.

 

By the same token, if the seller has the right to back out of the auction in this case, would that also be true if potential buyers had said that they couldn't bid because their ISP went down in the final seconds of the auction and they were going to enter higher bids?

 

I agree with skypinkblu's post. We take certain risks when auctioning on ebay, especially without reserve. You sometimes have to take the bad with the good.

 

I agree on many of the points you raise. My use of the term was in the context of the bolded disclaimer nochips provided, and in no way was I implying that this applied with what happened in the auction. Outside of this particular incident, I have seen situations where a technical failure (related to a power outage caused by a fire, that wiped out all backup power and well-intentioned contingency planning) was treated as such. Although infrequent, it does happen in the technical realm, outside of the kind of "natural disasters" we're accustomed to recognizing, such as earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.

[lotemo]

Maybe the seller can add a disclaimer to the auction description:

 

 

In the event computer or human errors not all bids will be honored. This includes power failures, acts of god, and network malfunctions. Basically if we think there's a final bid problem we can cancel you bid.

 

This, known also as force majeure in legal jargon, is pretty standard. Assuming that this "glitch" was an automated verification process, and a technical problem (i.e. power, hardware or software failure) prevented a bidder from participating, then IMHO it does not even need to be disclaimed as long as it can be proven that something went wrong on eBay's end. The extent of interference that prevented the 17K bid from going through is unknown.

 

If we're talking about a manual verification process that needs to be interpreted and reviewed by a person, and something came in the way of that process finalizing, then it falls under negligence. Using the disclaimer above wouldn't be enough to cover negligence or malfeasance, and the inclusion of text to expand on either of the two would scream "shady" seller. If I were eBay, I'd certainly want to understand completely what happened, and be totally transparent about it because it isn't every day that you have a bidder willing to plunk down that kind of money, especially in this tough economy. Telling a seller (and eBay customer) "Well, that's just too bad for you" is horrendously poor business sense, and the kind of PR that will drive business to alternative consignment and auction sites.

 

This doesn't sound like "force majeure." Force majeure refers to the party of a contract being unable to fulfill their part of an agreement due to extraordinary circumstances such as natural disasters or war. Both parties in this case were capable of fulfilliing their end of the contract.

 

I don't see how electronic or clerical glitches for last minute ebay bidders differs any from someone's car breaking down on the way to a live auction. The person in the car would have been the highest bidder but was unable to make it to the auction before the hammer fell. The seller in that live auction scenario would be bound by the auction results with the bidder that was present and able to bid. He would have no legal right to say he wasn't going to sell because he knew that another bidder, who would have bid higher, wasn't able to make it due to car troubles.

 

By the same token, if the seller has the right to back out of the auction in this case, would that also be true if potential buyers had said that they couldn't bid because their ISP went down in the final seconds of the auction and they were going to enter higher bids?

 

I agree with skypinkblu's post. We take certain risks when auctioning on ebay, especially without reserve. You sometimes have to take the bad with the good.

 

I agree on many of the points you raise. My use of the term was in the context of the bolded disclaimer nochips provided, and in no way was I implying that this applied with what happened in the auction. Outside of this particular incident, I have seen situations where a technical failure (related to a power outage caused by a fire, that wiped out all backup power and well-intentioned contingency planning) was treated as a such. Although infrequent, it does happen in the technical realm, outside of the kind of "natural disasters" we're accustomed to recognizing, such as earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.

 

I see your point. This thread has kind of turned into an interesting discussion on the risks of ebay auctions, or for that matter, electronic auctions and what results in a binding transaction when something goes wrong.

 

I had the opposite kind of situation on Heritage live the other day. I had placed an absentee bid for an item, expecting to be on an airplane during the live auction. It turned out that I was home in time for the live auction.

 

I had the live auction on screen as I was doing work for the office. There were still 30 or 40 lots before my item. In the middle of a business call, I flipped back to Heritage, saw my item up for auction, and watched as I was outbid. I had never used their live auction tool before. I didn't know what to do next as I was still on the phone and the auctioneer was closing the auction. There was a big "BID" button on screen. I clicked it expecting to have to enter more info but instead, I was suddenly the high bidder again and I won. Way more than I wanted to pay but I'm glad I was able to win, clueless though I was at the time of the bidding.

 

In this case, I would not have had legal grounds to not honor my bid, even though I "accidentally" bid because I didn't understand how their live auction screen operated. I think the original post is similar but just the opposite outcome, neither party really has legal grounds to back out of the auction just because other bidders had attempted to bid but were unable to do so for whatever reason.

 

Hopefully both parties can move on with nothing more than maybe a negative feedback. Legal grounds or not for what took place, I can't see the winner pursuing any legal action. It's just not worth the effort.

[Bomber-Bob]

Of note, I believe the sale, with cert number, was recorded on GPA.

 

I'm sorry but I feel for the Buyer. Doesn't anybody else ? See it from his side, he just won his grail, maybe overextended himself to get it, he was happy, telling all his friends. Then he is contacted from the Seller stating the sale was not legit.

I agree, he should not have called you that name, that was in poor taste. But somehow you have used that to justify your actions.

As an idea, I would have asked him to rescind the transaction with an incentive. Tell him you will relist and offer him 1,000 credit or offer him a consolation book but give the guy something.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I know Im new here, but after reading this thread.. I had to throw in my

 

If I was the winning bidder, I too would be furious if the seller cancelled the sale! I'm pretty sure the seller isnt new to Ebay, and understands the gamble you take running a "NO RESERVE" auction. Thats an awful big gamble! It's not like the winner got the book for $200 because Ebay had a glitch. The book went for GPA. Sorry man, I dont know you (anyone in this thread really ), but I think your wrong in cancelling the deal. Regardless of the name calling. There's no ethics or compassion on Ebay. If you wanted that you should have sold it here!! I know you think you got screwed, but a deals a deal!

 

"We are currently experiencing technical difficulties. Please stand by."

 

A "deal" isn't a "deal" when the system isn't functioning properly.

 

This isn't rocket surgery.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Where's that ebay employee, Jeffles? Remember he started a thread about what ebay could do better for comic collectors. He was a comic collector first and a ebay employee second. I'm shocked he hasn't chimed in on this situation yet..........

 

Thread Linky:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4149277#Post4149277

 

Post of the year.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I wonder how many people do and don't know who Tempus is.

 

So, for those that don't know who he is, we should just say, "Oh, yeah, he was screwed, that buyer just needs to deal with not getting the ASM he bid $14,500 for".

 

And what about the bidder who got screwed because eBay wouldn't take his $17,000 bid...?

[KryptoSpidey]

I know Im new here, but after reading this thread.. I had to throw in my

 

If I was the winning bidder, I too would be furious if the seller cancelled the sale! I'm pretty sure the seller isnt new to Ebay, and understands the gamble you take running a "NO RESERVE" auction. Thats an awful big gamble! It's not like the winner got the book for $200 because Ebay had a glitch. The book went for GPA. Sorry man, I dont know you (anyone in this thread really ), but I think your wrong in cancelling the deal. Regardless of the name calling. There's no ethics or compassion on Ebay. If you wanted that you should have sold it here!! I know you think you got screwed, but a deals a deal!

 

"We are currently experiencing technical difficulties. Please stand by."

 

A "deal" isn't a "deal" when the system isn't functioning properly.

 

This isn't rocket surgery.

No..this is the post of the year!!

Rocket "science" ...what's "rocket surgery"?

[RockMyAmadeus]

I've thought about this off and on since I posted this morning. Something that I had done occurred to me and I find it odd. About a month ago there was an auction for a Strasburg rookie card.

 

The card was sitting at 999k. I wanted to place a thrill bid, but obviously didn't have any intention of actually buying the card. Yes, I'm a *spoon*.

 

So I used a buying account that has very little feedback so that I wouldn't wreck my regular account in the event that I actually won the auction and the seller realized what a *spoon* I was for buying into the mob mentality. I placed a bid for $999,999.99. I was never asked to verify anything.

 

How certain is this "glitch" theory? Maybe you're getting shilled by someone that really wanted the book but missed out on the auction close? Is there any actual proof that folks were not able to bid?

 

Personally, I might have grumbled for a bit, but I would have sold the eBay winner the book. When I sold more, I often got emails from "bidders" who just missed out for some reason (the dog ate their computer, etc) It was always when something went too low, and they wanted to snap up a deal "after" the auction ended. I'd find it frustrating, because we all want to think we did the best we could do...but I'd ignore them (and block them) and just sell to the legitimate winner. I know it's frustrating, but a hurricane or some kind of other problem might have had the same effect.

 

 

 

 

Wait.....you BLOCKED people because they wrote you after the auction saying they missed out and wanted to pay more.....?

 

 

That's kinda draconian from the CGC Message Board Queen of Nice.

 

 

I miss stuff all the time (no one can search everything anymore), and have frequently written to sellers to see if they had duplicates...oh alright, and occasionally offering to buy things that sold for silly low amounts. Hey, I'm not perfect either. . My biggest heartbreak was a listing of Batman #135-500 complete VG/F avg....yes, THAT Batman...selling price? $450.

 

Happened Aug 3, 2003. I didn't discover the auction until August 5th. It broke my heart.

 

And for the record...this wasn't a "you pays your money, you takes your chances" situation....I wish more people could understand this.

 

:shrug:

[Turtle]

It was intentional...he's done it before.

[RockMyAmadeus]

This "nightmare" is of the original poster's own making.

 

From eBay's "Selling Practices Policy," part of the eBay User Agreement all eBay users agree to:

 

"You must ensure the items you are offering are in stock for the duration of the listing and are delivered to the buyer, unless the buyer doesn't meet the terms of your listing."

 

eBay User Agreement

eBay Listing Rules

eBay Selling Practices Policy

 

Despite all the spinning and enabling here, it seems the original poster did not meet his obligation as a seller.

 

Not only that, it seems he did not follow through on the deal he had with his own son.

 

 

"But your honor! The IRS had a computer glitch! I don't owe $2,928,574.36 in back taxes. I haven't even MADE that much in my entire life!"

 

"Too bad! That's what the computer says, so that's what you owe. NEXT!"

 

(thumbs u

 

You people are ING HILARIOUS!

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I don't see how electronic or clerical glitches for last minute ebay bidders differs any from someone's car breaking down on the way to a live auction. The person in the car would have been the highest bidder but was unable to make it to the auction before the hammer fell. The seller in that live auction scenario would be bound by the auction results with the bidder that was present and able to bid. He would have no legal right to say he wasn't going to sell because he knew that another bidder, who would have bid higher, wasn't able to make it due to car troubles.

 

Here's the critical difference...and upon which this entire case hinges:

 

"Car troubles" (and any other situation that would have prevented the bidder from REACHING the auction) are the problem of the bidder. Technical difficulties which prevent already present bidders from bidding are the problem of the auction house.

 

By the same token, if the seller has the right to back out of the auction in this case, would that also be true if potential buyers had said that they couldn't bid because their ISP went down in the final seconds of the auction and they were going to enter higher bids?

 

Nope.

 

Why not?

 

Because that's not a technical difficulty on the part of eBay. That's an access issue on the part of the bidder, like the one above.

 

I agree with skypinkblu's post. We take certain risks when auctioning on ebay, especially without reserve. You sometimes have to take the bad with the good.

 

And if the auction had ended at $23.57, because of technical difficulties...?

 

Would we have to take the good with the bad then, too?

 

If the argument fails for ANY amount, it fails for ALL amounts.

[Jaymole]

It was intentional...he's done it before.

 

Are you talking about the OP?

 

I still have questions about this such as if the timed out bidders did indeed have a credit card on file with ebay, had they ever bid on a book over $15,000 before without any troubles, what was the second highest bid after the $17,000, and most of all, why ebay was so damn unhelpful in straightening this out if it was their fault.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Of note, I believe the sale, with cert number, was recorded on GPA.

 

I'm sorry but I feel for the Buyer. Doesn't anybody else ? See it from his side, he just won his grail, maybe overextended himself to get it, he was happy, telling all his friends.

 

This isn't relevant in any way.

 

Then he is contacted from the Seller stating the sale was not legit.

I agree, he should not have called you that name, that was in poor taste. But somehow you have used that to justify your actions.

As an idea, I would have asked him to rescind the transaction with an incentive. Tell him you will relist and offer him 1,000 credit or offer him a consolation book but give the guy something.

 

What the seller COULD do is relist the item, and give the buyer an incentive if he wins it...say, $500 (which is exceptionally generous)...above and beyond the $14,500 of his original win. That is, if the auction ends at $14,500, and the original winner wins it, he got the original price. If, however, the auction ended for any amount over $14,500...and the original winner won...any amount up to $500 would be deducted from the winning bid.

 

Winning bid = $14,857, buyer gets to pay only $14,500. Winning bid = $16,847, buyer gets to pay only $16,347.

 

It's something.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I know Im new here, but after reading this thread.. I had to throw in my

 

If I was the winning bidder, I too would be furious if the seller cancelled the sale! I'm pretty sure the seller isnt new to Ebay, and understands the gamble you take running a "NO RESERVE" auction. Thats an awful big gamble! It's not like the winner got the book for $200 because Ebay had a glitch. The book went for GPA. Sorry man, I dont know you (anyone in this thread really ), but I think your wrong in cancelling the deal. Regardless of the name calling. There's no ethics or compassion on Ebay. If you wanted that you should have sold it here!! I know you think you got screwed, but a deals a deal!

 

"We are currently experiencing technical difficulties. Please stand by."

 

A "deal" isn't a "deal" when the system isn't functioning properly.

 

This isn't rocket surgery.

No..this is the post of the year!!

Rocket "science" ...what's "rocket surgery"?

 

It's like brain science, only with scalpels and lots of oil.