My EBAY Nightmare

[Flaming_Telepath]

All you people who are saying the seller should "honor the sale"...I don't really understand what crack you're smoking. And I mean that nicely. But you're all on crack.

 

How many of you would, for example, if you bought a new dishwaser, and it broke down 2 days after you installed it, just say "oh well, that's the risk I take when I buy a major appliance" and not seek compensation? I mean, after all, defective products are made ALL THE TIME, and everyone is aware that defective products are made, so that's the risk you take, right...?

 

It's certainly easy to tell someone to "honor the sale" when it's not YOUR hard earned money that's at stake. (thumbs u

 

The buyer did not win the auction fair and square. There were technical problems beyond the control of the seller that clearly prevented higher bids from being placed.

 

Would you all say, if the book sold for $1276 because nobody else could get their bids in, that the seller should "honor the bid"...?

 

What if there was a glitch that went undiscovered, which didn't allow anyone to bid in the last DAY of the auction, and the seller was expecting snipe bids (which is now the norm), and the book sold for that amount, far, far below FMV, and the seller didn't find out until after the auction was over? What if those bidders tried to contact the seller, but the seller was not at his computer/digital device that day?

 

The argument doesn't hold at ANY amount, if it doesn't hold at ALL amounts.

 

Man was not made to serve the law, but the law to serve man. The law exists to make people whole, not give one party an advantage over the other. Just because "the hammer fell" doesn't mean it was a legitimate auction. In a case like this, where there was clearly a technical problem, and not just "sour grapes" on the part of the seller, the auction should be declared null and void and re-run at eBay's cost, with the "winning" bidder being invited to bid again. THAT is the correct way to handle this situation.

 

This is how it works, by the way, on other online auction sites, particularly Heritage.

 

For those saying "that's the risk you take when you use eBay", that's also ridiculous. eBay is just like any other company; you CONTRACT THEM to provide you a service, and they are OBLIGATED by that contract to provide that service. If they FAIL to provide that service, regardless of why, you are not under obligation to them, or anyone else, to complete your end of the contract.

 

The wherefores that eBay may offer are irrelevant to the seller; they are not his/her concern.

 

The seller did ABSOLUTELY the correct thing in this case. Pursuing eBay for damages would ALSO be the correct thing to do IN THEORY, but it's a fool's errand. They are a multi-billion dollar corporation with lawyers who will destroy a person, regardless of the merits of the case. eBay will spend ten times the amount of damages sought just to not lose a case in civil court, and force the claimant to do the same. And that's even if the seller could "prove" damages!

 

 

 

eBay is a tool that you use to sell your items.

 

You chose that tool.

 

You contract directly with a buyer.

 

Your tool goes wrong.

 

Your contract with the buyer still stands.

 

Your claim against the tool manufacturer is what you pursue.

 

Actually, eBay is an independent 3rd party whose business model was originally designed to provide both sellers and buyers to have a convinient platform for making deals. The platform was designed to provide a safe and fair environment for both parties. The independent 3rd party failed to meet their obligation but both the buyer and seller are helpless (without a huge financial risk) to do anything to hold them to their part of the deal. A hammer is a tool. If you hit your thumb with it, you are at fault. If a contractor hits your thumb with a hammer, the contractor is at fault.

 

Precisely what I'm saying. eBay is at fault and any damages should be met by them. However, the contract for the sale is between the buyer and seller, not with eBay, so the deal should stand, but the tool manufacturer should be sued for not doing the job it was supposed to do. (thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

eBay is a tool that you use to sell your items.

 

You chose that tool.

 

You contract directly with a buyer.

 

Your tool goes wrong.

 

Your contract with the buyer still stands.

 

Your claim against the tool manufacturer is what you pursue.

 

Which is all fine and good...(though I could certainly argue the "mitigation of damages" angle, as well as the fact that you normally contract with a buyer FIRST, rather than LAST...and these are legitimate arguments.)

 

Except that your contract with the buyer only exists after a legitimate winning bid has been placed and the auction ends. While the "buyer's" bid was, itself, legitimate, it wasn't the legitimate winning bid, as there were clearly others who would have bid more, but were prevented from doing so.

 

A contract, after all, is defined as a meeting of the minds. When an auction runs without problems, the contract is valid, even if the seller (or the buyer) is not happy with the results.

 

If there were problems that prevented a legitimate auction result, then, by definition, there's no "meeting of the minds" between the buyer and seller, and therefore no contract legally exists.

 

Where no contract exists, there is no violation of same.

[Dark Prime 0]

Besides their e-mails to the seller, what other proof is there that the book would have gotten higher bids? Would eBay have a record of what the timed out bidders tried to bid?

 

Just trying to figure out why eBay would be such and not cancel the auction.

he said somewhere in the 1st few pages that ebay has record of someone bidding 17k took the bid but it didn't apply it before the auction ended

 

and they couldn't tell him why other then a glitch (from the way it read)

 

so 14.5k when someone bid 17k.... ebay should have let the auction be redone

[RockMyAmadeus]

eBay is a tool that you use to sell your items.

 

You chose that tool.

 

You contract directly with a buyer.

 

Your tool goes wrong.

 

Your contract with the buyer still stands.

 

Your claim against the tool manufacturer is what you pursue.

 

I've been following this thread for a while, and this was my opinion at first too. The thing that is missed here, is what happens to the legitimate bidder who was willing to pay $17,000 but wasn't able to because of a technical fault of eBay's? Does he make a claim against the buyer for possession of the book that should have been his?

 

It's a very messy situation, but I've come around to thinking that the fair thing would probably be the "do-over" auction.

 

Yay!

 

One convert at a time...

[Jaymole]

Besides their e-mails to the seller, what other proof is there that the book would have gotten higher bids? Would eBay have a record of what the timed out bidders tried to bid?

 

Just trying to figure out why eBay would be such and not cancel the auction.

he said somewhere in the 1st few pages that ebay has record of someone bidding 17k took the bid but it didn't apply it before the auction ended

 

and they couldn't tell him why other then a glitch (from the way it read)

 

so 14.5k when someone bid 17k.... ebay should have let the auction be redone

 

Thanks...then eBay has no grounds for not cancelling the auction...they clearly screwed up.

[Pmack-migration]

Whose shill are you or are you just an ?

 

I'm not a shill, I'm both a buyer and seller. And as a buyer, I'd be pissed if a seller emailed me and said "hey, I know this was an auction, but the final price wasn't where it should be, so I don't want to sell it to you."

 

If you have a set price, list it for that. Then no one's disappointed.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Whose shill are you or are you just an ?

 

I'm not a shill, I'm both a buyer and seller. And as a buyer, I'd be pissed if a seller emailed me and said "hey, I know this was an auction, but the final price wasn't where it should be, so I don't want to sell it to you."

 

 

That's not what happened. Therefore, your argument is irrelevant.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Whose shill are you or are you just an ?

 

I'm not a shill, I'm both a buyer and seller. And as a buyer, I'd be pissed if a seller emailed me and said "hey, I know this was an auction, but the final price wasn't where it should be, so I don't want to sell it to you."

 

If you have a set price, list it for that. Then no one's disappointed.

 

 

No matter what? And that's not the issue. The issue wasn't that the seller would've like a better price. We all would. The issue is that ebay ed up and PREVENTED the better price from happening.

 

There was a serious glitch in the system that blocked bidders. What if, though some glitch, every single bidder on the planet was blocked out except for 1 guy and the opening bid was .99 cents and he won it for that. Are you telling me that its absolutely black and white and that there's no failure by ebay that could ever trump simply having to follow through with the sale?

 

all that!

[hockey&comicsguy]

Whose shill are you or are you just an ?

 

I'm not a shill, I'm both a buyer and seller. And as a buyer, I'd be pissed if a seller emailed me and said "hey, I know this was an auction, but the final price wasn't where it should be, so I don't want to sell it to you."

 

 

That's not what happened. Therefore, your argument is irrelevant.

 

Yeah but we specialize in irrelevancy around here so he's gonna fit right in.

[comicalgems]

 

To (Hades) with ebay.

 

And some of you have the nerve to wonder why I came down like a ton of bricks on that "eBay representative."

 

 

You think stories like this are unique...? Think again.

 

When you're on good terms with ebay/paypal it's like you're best friends...but one little thing and they can royally screw you.

 

But

 

From the buyer standpoint, he just might think you're unhappy with the end auction result and that you're trying to get the price up. He doesn't know you from Fred...and you're telling him there's been a glitch?

 

BUT

 

I believe you. eBay definitely screwed you.

[Pmack-migration]

That's not what happened. Therefore, your argument is irrelevant.

Yeah, you're right. The seller said "I am presently undecided what to do about this but have decided to ask you if you would rescind the transaction in the sense of fairness."

 

And of course when the bidder refused, the seller suddenly became 'decided', and chose not to sell.

 

Are you telling me the bidder really ever had the option to buy the book once the seller became aware of other, higher offers?

[Gatsby77]

I'm with Foolkiller, Flaming Telepath, and (especially) Frankbearrs on this one:

 

John, you choose to do business with eBay. You trusted that their auction site would work best for you and get the best price for your books.

 

You were the seller and you made this decision. eBay's problems, technical glitches, nightmare customer service, apparent outright lack of any concern for the sellers protection and point of view, and ability to keep things fair in light of shills, snipes, etc. have all been well documented.

 

At the end of the day the hammer fell and the buyer won the book. Doesn't sound like there were threats, swears, etc. until you told the buyer that you were not going to honor the sale and wished that he cancel the transaction.

 

Legally, the contract should be honored and the sale should go through. Likewise any potential damages are moot since the $14,500 is in-line with GPA/FMV.

 

In 2006, I was a floor bidder at a comic auction where I bought my first significant Golden Age books. Due to confusion and mix-up by the auctioneer, he skipped a lot, and floor and phone bidders were thus prevented from bidding on that specific lot that sold artificially low to a remote bidder via Ebay's live auction. I was one of at least 3 bidders who were willing to pay far more for the lot and could not due to the auctioneer's mix up. Particularly frustrating because the lot contained solid copies of Fighting Yank 3, 6, and 7 (Schomburg war covers, and among the rarest Nedors).

 

Point is, while Ebay was at fault here, you chose to use Ebay's service without placing a reserve, so you took your chances with the venue. No different then people who complain when their book sells cheaper in a Comiclink auction than the same book in the same grade does the next week at Heritage, or when a seller unwittingly ends an Ebay auction for a key book during the Superbowl.

 

The contract was between you and the seller, not Ebay, and thus must be honored as such. Then again, I only got a B+ in Contracts, so have at it.

[Pmack-migration]

There was a serious glitch in the system that blocked bidders.

I take issue with this. Ebay has certain requirements for people bidding over $10k. If you've been an ebay member for 10 years and have 12,000 feedbacks but have never crossed the $10k line, you're in for a surprise if you try to bid at the last moment.

 

I am fairly confident this was the 'error', and it's the bidder's problem, despite what the Indian chat representative said.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Whose shill are you or are you just an ?

 

I'm not a shill, I'm both a buyer and seller. And as a buyer, I'd be pissed if a seller emailed me and said "hey, I know this was an auction, but the final price wasn't where it should be, so I don't want to sell it to you."

 

 

That's not what happened. Therefore, your argument is irrelevant.

 

Yeah but we specialize in irrelevancy around here so he's gonna fit right in.

 

I....well...er...

 

I've got nothing.

 

[the blob]

never sell anything that expensive on ebay. between potentially getting skrewed over by a lunatic bidder, paypal fraud, whatever, it isn't worth it. wouldn't c-link protect you a little better? heck, what would metropolis or some place like that pay for the book?

[1Cool]

Quick summary-

 

E-Bay messed up and did nothing to fix it

Seller contacted buyer and gave a valid reason for not selling the comic

Buyer got mad and was a complete Bunt and probably left a neg

 

It would have been a moot point if the buyer would have listened to reason and respected the descriptive and accurate e-mail about the situation. I can understand them being irritated but they lost nothing but a little time. Good karma would have suggested a "do-over" without making it an issue.

[the blob]

I'm with Foolkiller, Flaming Telepath, and (especially) Frankbearrs on this one:

 

John, you choose to do business with eBay. You trusted that their auction site would work best for you and get the best price for your books.

 

You were the seller and you made this decision. eBay's problems, technical glitches, nightmare customer service, apparent outright lack of any concern for the sellers protection and point of view, and ability to keep things fair in light of shills, snipes, etc. have all been well documented.

 

At the end of the day the hammer fell and the buyer won the book. Doesn't sound like there were threats, swears, etc. until you told the buyer that you were not going to honor the sale and wished that he cancel the transaction.

 

Legally, the contract should be honored and the sale should go through. Likewise any potential damages are moot since the $14,500 is in-line with GPA/FMV.

 

In 2006, I was a floor bidder at a comic auction where I bought my first significant Golden Age books. Due to confusion and mix-up by the auctioneer, he skipped a lot, and floor and phone bidders were thus prevented from bidding on that specific lot that sold artificially low to a remote bidder via Ebay's live auction. I was one of at least 3 bidders who were willing to pay far more for the lot and could not due to the auctioneer's mix up. Particularly frustrating because the lot contained solid copies of Fighting Yank 3, 6, and 7 (Schomburg war covers, and among the rarest Nedors).

 

Point is, while Ebay was at fault here, you chose to use Ebay's service without placing a reserve, so you took your chances with the venue. No different then people who complain when their book sells cheaper in a Comiclink auction than the same book in the same grade does the next week at Heritage, or when a seller unwittingly ends an Ebay auction for a key book during the Superbowl.

 

The contract was between you and the seller, not Ebay, and thus must be honored as such. Then again, I only got a B+ in Contracts, so have at it.

 

Well, perhaps implied in the performance of said contract is that ebay actually registers the bids that are made on the item? The problem, of course, is did said seller send out an invoice? that may change things.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'm with Foolkiller, Flaming Telepath, and (especially) Frankbearrs on this one:

 

John, you choose to do business with eBay. You trusted that their auction site would work best for you and get the best price for your books.

 

You were the seller and you made this decision. eBay's problems, technical glitches, nightmare customer service, apparent outright lack of any concern for the sellers protection and point of view, and ability to keep things fair in light of shills, snipes, etc. have all been well documented.

 

At the end of the day the hammer fell and the buyer won the book. Doesn't sound like there were threats, swears, etc. until you told the buyer that you were not going to honor the sale and wished that he cancel the transaction.

 

Legally, the contract should be honored and the sale should go through. Likewise any potential damages are moot since the $14,500 is in-line with GPA/FMV.

 

Sorry. LEGALLY, there was no contract.

 

You cannot enforce a contract that doesn't exist.

 

In 2006, I was a floor bidder at a comic auction where I bought my first significant Golden Age books. Due to confusion and mix-up by the auctioneer, he skipped a lot, and floor and phone bidders were thus prevented from bidding on that specific lot that sold artificially low to a remote bidder via Ebay's live auction. I was one of at least 3 bidders who were willing to pay far more for the lot and could not due to the auctioneer's mix up. Particularly frustrating because the lot contained solid copies of Fighting Yank 3, 6, and 7 (Schomburg war covers, and among the rarest Nedors).

 

Point is, while Ebay was at fault here, you chose to use Ebay's service without placing a reserve, so you took your chances with the venue. No different then people who complain when their book sells cheaper in a Comiclink auction than the same book in the same grade does the next week at Heritage, or when a seller unwittingly ends an Ebay auction for a key book during the Superbowl.

 

 

It's radically different. They're not even comparable. Why? Because if those same glitches happened on Comiclinkg or Heritage, the argument would be the same, and Heritage SPECIFICALLY SPELLS OUT in their Terms and Conditions that an auctioneer may, at his sole discrestion, reoffer the lot in the case of ANY dispute.

 

You're trying to cram a "one size fits all" solution into a problem that doesn't work that way. "Welp...too bad, you used eBay, and look, they crashed and prematurely ended your auctions, and cancelled all the bidders except one, with the winning bidder at 99 cents. Gotta honor it!"

 

Can you not see how ridiculous that is?

 

It doesn't work that way. And if it doesn't work for ANY result, it doesn't work for ALL results.

 

Do you just not understand the difference between a technical difficulty entirely beyond the seller's control and "unwittingly ending an auction during the Superbowl"...?

 

The contract was between you and the seller, not Ebay, and thus must be honored as such. Then again, I only got a B+ in Contracts, so have at it.

 

You probably should have failed.

 

There was no contract between the buyer and the seller. The contract only exists after a legitimate auction has been run with legitimate results. Since that wasn't the case, there is NO contract between the two.

[hockey&comicsguy]

There was a serious glitch in the system that blocked bidders.

I take issue with this. Ebay has certain requirements for people bidding over $10k. If you've been an ebay member for 10 years and have 12,000 feedbacks but have never crossed the $10k line, you're in for a surprise if you try to bid at the last moment.

 

I am fairly confident this was the 'error', and it's the bidder's problem, despite what the Indian chat representative said.

 

Could be. But i'm taking the OP at his word. If ebay flat out tells me that the blocked bidders had previously jumped through all their hoops and should not have been blocked, if they admit that they messed up and preventing the auction from being conducted the way it should have been.....there's no way I would have gone through with the sale given the evidence presented. GPA history be damned. After all, it ain't no bible. If things were stagnant i'd still be able to afford all the mid-grade Showcase 22's I want. I still think the sale price is irrelevant b/c we're dealing with a bigger issue of a 3rd party's failure to provide their services the way they were intended.

[the blob]

This is why you should always be silent as to shipping cost on an item like this. That way if ebay messes up the bids you simply ask for $4000 s/h to make up for the lost bids. The buyer tells you to F-yourself and doesn't pay and we're back to the status quo. Either way you get negged, but at least someone won't claim you breached the contract!

 

Just kidding, of course.