Is non key comic collecting becoming a hobby of only reader copies or 9.8s??

[Flash105]

Which means we should be collecting for the love of collecting and not hoping for the motherlode.

[homerwannabee]

Which means we should be collecting for the love of collecting and not hoping for the motherlode.

 

Trust me, if you are still collecting Copper Age comics, than you do it for the love.

[mschmidt]

For Copper Age unless it is a major run like Amazing Spider-man or something to that effect 9.8's don't even cut it. Basically for 95 percent of Copper Age books it seems that only 9.9's, and above will do. For the Modern Age it seems that only 10.0's, and above will do. That really is too bad since there are so many great books in the copper age.

 

Oh, really? So how does this fit with the fact that the vast majority of coppers and moderns have no CGC 9.9 or 10.0 copies available?

 

The problem is more on the demand side. Over the years Copper seems to have taken a beating of epic proportions. Almost every single copper age title has gone down in value. Even the not so common 9.8's have almost universally gone down. Heck, if I am wrong then great. I would love people to prove me wrong on this. See I would love the copper age to be actually hotter than I perceive it to be. But in my experience that is not the case.

 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with people holding out for 9.9 copies (or above).

 

The reason that 9.8 CA books have almost universally come down across the board over the last 2-3 years is because more & more 9.8 copies have become available - it's as easy as that.

[ComicConnoisseur]

For Copper Age unless it is a major run like Amazing Spider-man or something to that effect 9.8's don't even cut it. Basically for 95 percent of Copper Age books it seems that only 9.9's, and above will do. For the Modern Age it seems that only 10.0's, and above will do. That really is too bad since there are so many great books in the copper age.

and they are still great books but they are not worth hundreds to thousands of dollars like thier golden and silver age counterparts, if collectors think about it,they shouldn`t be.

[homerwannabee]

For Copper Age unless it is a major run like Amazing Spider-man or something to that effect 9.8's don't even cut it. Basically for 95 percent of Copper Age books it seems that only 9.9's, and above will do. For the Modern Age it seems that only 10.0's, and above will do. That really is too bad since there are so many great books in the copper age.

 

Oh, really? So how does this fit with the fact that the vast majority of coppers and moderns have no CGC 9.9 or 10.0 copies available?

 

The problem is more on the demand side. Over the years Copper seems to have taken a beating of epic proportions. Almost every single copper age title has gone down in value. Even the not so common 9.8's have almost universally gone down. Heck, if I am wrong then great. I would love people to prove me wrong on this. See I would love the copper age to be actually hotter than I perceive it to be. But in my experience that is not the case.

 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with people holding out for 9.9 copies (or above).

 

The reason that 9.8 CA books have almost universally come down across the board over the last 2-3 years is because more & more 9.8 copies have become available - it's as easy as that.

 

Again, I am not saying people are holding out. I am just saying that the only real comic books that are not keys that are worth anything from this time period are the 9.9's. Granted there are exceptions with the ASM's, Universal X-mens, IH's, and so on, but this proves what I was saying. Whether it be supply or demand, the books simply are not worth even submitting for a grade unless you have a pretty decent shot at a 9.9.

[paleontol99-migration]

Whether it be supply or demand, the books simply are not worth even submitting for a grade unless you have a pretty decent shot at a 9.9.

 

I see what you are saying. Im just a little leery of the chances of a book coming back 9.9. Does anyone know the cgc changes. Ive been told its about one in 5000 in the past but I really dont know cause the source of that info had no backup.

[homerwannabee]

Whether it be supply or demand, the books simply are not worth even submitting for a grade unless you have a pretty decent shot at a 9.9.

 

I see what you are saying. Im just a little leery of the chances of a book coming back 9.9. Does anyone know the cgc changes. Ive been told its about one in 5000 in the past but I really dont know cause the source of that info had no backup.

I would say the chances are significantly higher if you thoroughly check a comic book, and find that it has no perceivable errors. Still a long shot, but not a 5,000 to 1 long shot.

[jkrk]

 

Im just curious as to how others feel and figured I would get some opinions rolling on the board. It seems to me that much of comic collecting seems to be divided amongst collectors who just by reading copies or investors that buy 9.8 with much of everything else in between, if not a key book, just left in wasteland. Im seeing many dealers selling 100, 200, 300 thousand books at a clip of either low grade or mid grade non investor books at low prices. Seems they want to dump stock and get out of low or mid grade material.

This hobby to me seems to be heading in a direction of either key books in any grade or 9.8s for any other type of book. Whenever I talk to a collector now, on any newer books they say they will just wait of a 9.8.

It seems our hobby is changing into either high prices for high grade material or low prices for low grade with everything in the middle cast off into wasteland. I know in the past Fines and Fine + was considered as a glorified VG but the price straddle between a low grade book and a high grade book is really showing a difference.

Any thoughts on this? Enlighten me!

 

That's the pattern I noticed in SA for the past decade. When I was selling SA I was able to move very, very high grade books at prices above guide. Very High grade books near guide but the Gd to VF- books at discounts to guide. The fines to Fn/VF took the biggest hits.

 

Everything sells, but I need a substantial discount to inventory mid grades.

 

Keys seem to always be in demand , even in low grades.

[mschmidt]

For Copper Age unless it is a major run like Amazing Spider-man or something to that effect 9.8's don't even cut it. Basically for 95 percent of Copper Age books it seems that only 9.9's, and above will do. For the Modern Age it seems that only 10.0's, and above will do. That really is too bad since there are so many great books in the copper age.

 

Oh, really? So how does this fit with the fact that the vast majority of coppers and moderns have no CGC 9.9 or 10.0 copies available?

 

The problem is more on the demand side. Over the years Copper seems to have taken a beating of epic proportions. Almost every single copper age title has gone down in value. Even the not so common 9.8's have almost universally gone down. Heck, if I am wrong then great. I would love people to prove me wrong on this. See I would love the copper age to be actually hotter than I perceive it to be. But in my experience that is not the case.

 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with people holding out for 9.9 copies (or above).

 

The reason that 9.8 CA books have almost universally come down across the board over the last 2-3 years is because more & more 9.8 copies have become available - it's as easy as that.

 

Again, I am not saying people are holding out. I am just saying that the only real comic books that are not keys that are worth anything from this time period are the 9.9's. Granted there are exceptions with the ASM's, Universal X-mens, IH's, and so on, but this proves what I was saying. Whether it be supply or demand, the books simply are not worth even submitting for a grade unless you have a pretty decent shot at a 9.9.

 

Bollocks.

 

Copper age 9.9's are impossibly rare. No, seriously, they are "I just saw the Easter Bunny dry-humping Santa Claus in my yard"-rare. As such, they have zero influence on the copper market in general, and nobody in their right mind would ever submit a stack of CA books to CGC assuming they would come back 9.9 (or better).

 

The reason why people continue to submit non-key CA books to CGC is because there's a pretty decent market for CA 9.8 books out there - you might not make a fortune selling them, but there are numerous dealers who specialize almost exclusively in these books and do just fine. It's not rocket science, really - if a book sells for $2-3 raw, and you can get $60 for it in a CGC 9.8, you slab it.

 

What you & ComicConnoisseur both fail to grasp is just because a book is common, doesn't mean it's common in über high grade. It's irrelevant that I can go to any show and find 4 copies of a certain book when none of those copies are 9.8's. And there are tons upon tons of CA books (most of which aren't from the titles that you mention) that, while plentiful in 8.5 to 9.4 raw, are hard enough to find in 9.8 that slabbing them is a no-brainer.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

For Copper Age unless it is a major run like Amazing Spider-man or something to that effect 9.8's don't even cut it. Basically for 95 percent of Copper Age books it seems that only 9.9's, and above will do. For the Modern Age it seems that only 10.0's, and above will do. That really is too bad since there are so many great books in the copper age.

 

Oh, really? So how does this fit with the fact that the vast majority of coppers and moderns have no CGC 9.9 or 10.0 copies available?

 

The problem is more on the demand side. Over the years Copper seems to have taken a beating of epic proportions. Almost every single copper age title has gone down in value. Even the not so common 9.8's have almost universally gone down. Heck, if I am wrong then great. I would love people to prove me wrong on this. See I would love the copper age to be actually hotter than I perceive it to be. But in my experience that is not the case.

 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with people holding out for 9.9 copies (or above).

 

The reason that 9.8 CA books have almost universally come down across the board over the last 2-3 years is because more & more 9.8 copies have become available - it's as easy as that.

 

Again, I am not saying people are holding out. I am just saying that the only real comic books that are not keys that are worth anything from this time period are the 9.9's. Granted there are exceptions with the ASM's, Universal X-mens, IH's, and so on, but this proves what I was saying. Whether it be supply or demand, the books simply are not worth even submitting for a grade unless you have a pretty decent shot at a 9.9.

 

Bollocks.

 

Copper age 9.9's are impossibly rare. No, seriously, they are "I just saw the Easter Bunny dry-humping Santa Claus in my yard"-rare. As such, they have zero influence on the copper market in general, and nobody in their right mind would ever submit a stack of CA books to CGC assuming they would come back 9.9 (or better).

 

The reason why people continue to submit non-key CA books to CGC is because there's a pretty decent market for CA 9.8 books out there - you might not make a fortune selling them, but there are numerous dealers who specialize almost exclusively in these books and do just fine. It's not rocket science, really - if a book sells for $2-3 raw, and you can get $60 for it in a CGC 9.8, you slab it.

 

What you & ComicConnoisseur both fail to grasp is just because a book is common, doesn't mean it's common in über high grade. It's irrelevant that I can go to any show and find 4 copies of a certain book when none of those copies are 9.8's. And there are tons upon tons of CA books (most of which aren't from the titles that you mention) that, while plentiful in 8.5 to 9.4 raw, are hard enough to find in 9.8 that slabbing them is a no-brainer.

 

Excellent post. Let me further add that in this hobby, I've done just as well hitting a lot of "singles" (books that I make $20-$100 on) as I have on the occasional triple or home run (high three to four figure profit type books). I can't tell you how many CA books I've bought for $1-$5, had slabbed for $13, and sold for $60-$250. Maybe in absolute terms the invididual dollar amounts don't sound impressive, but a 300-1000% return on your money sure does.

 

One of the nice things about the Copper Age is the sheer breadth of material, much of which your average collector doesn't even know about. I've dug HTF $50-$100+ books out of long boxes on days 2 and 3 of shows....all because everyone else who went through the box didn't even know what they had in front of them. Unlike the Silver and Bronze Ages, where everything worth decent money is readily identifiable, the Copper Age requires some specialized knowledge that puts folks like me, who know it fairly well, at an advantage.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

For Copper Age unless it is a major run like Amazing Spider-man or something to that effect 9.8's don't even cut it. Basically for 95 percent of Copper Age books it seems that only 9.9's, and above will do. For the Modern Age it seems that only 10.0's, and above will do. That really is too bad since there are so many great books in the copper age.

 

Oh, really? So how does this fit with the fact that the vast majority of coppers and moderns have no CGC 9.9 or 10.0 copies available?

 

The problem is more on the demand side. Over the years Copper seems to have taken a beating of epic proportions. Almost every single copper age title has gone down in value. Even the not so common 9.8's have almost universally gone down. Heck, if I am wrong then great. I would love people to prove me wrong on this. See I would love the copper age to be actually hotter than I perceive it to be. But in my experience that is not the case.

 

Which has absolutely nothing to do with people holding out for 9.9 copies (or above).

 

The reason that 9.8 CA books have almost universally come down across the board over the last 2-3 years is because more & more 9.8 copies have become available - it's as easy as that.

 

I would add that CGC has made it a lot easier to get a 9.8 in the last 2-3 years then in their first seven. At least, that's been my experience.

[homerwannabee]

The problem is getting $60 for your book. Again, I am not talking about key, or even semi-keys. I am talking more about getting a 9.8 Dazzler non key, or some other not too significant issue. True enough you have to know the market, but you can't just pick up any issue, and submit for a 9.8, and make a profit on that. It just won't happen.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

The problem is getting $60 for your book. Again, I am not talking about key, or even semi-keys. I am talking more about getting a 9.8 Dazzler non key, or some other not too significant issue. True enough you have to know the market, but you can't just pick up any issue, and submit for a 9.8, and make a profit on that. It just won't happen.

 

Wrong. I've submitted plenty of non-key books and made very hefty returns. It takes not only knowledge of the comic, but also its census population. I turned a $5 book that I purchased on Sunday at last year's Chicago Con into $250 by just knowing the market. It sat there for the first two days because it was an otherwise nothing book in the middle of a long run, but I also knew when I was it there was a good shot it would be the first 9.8 in the census and I knew of at least two people who would pay well for it.

 

You guys seem to disparage the Copper Age because every book isn't immediately recognized as slabbable for a profit by Joe Q Public. They aren't. And guess what...in this new marketplace, neither are many Silver and Bronze books either. So really, what is the point of this discussion?

 

[MK Ultra]

For the Modern Age it seems that only 10.0's, and above will do.

 

Yes, all those 10.2's are in high demand ... Quite rare too as I hear it.

 

Spinal Tap Slabs go all the way up to 11.0 so the 10.2 isn't that rare.

[Flaming_Telepath]

The problem is getting $60 for your book. Again, I am not talking about key, or even semi-keys. I am talking more about getting a 9.8 Dazzler non key, or some other not too significant issue. True enough you have to know the market, but you can't just pick up any issue, and submit for a 9.8, and make a profit on that. It just won't happen.

 

Actually, I wouldn't describe this as a 'problem'. I'd suggest it's a long-overdue adjustment and a return to more sane practices.

[homerwannabee]

The problem is getting $60 for your book. Again, I am not talking about key, or even semi-keys. I am talking more about getting a 9.8 Dazzler non key, or some other not too significant issue. True enough you have to know the market, but you can't just pick up any issue, and submit for a 9.8, and make a profit on that. It just won't happen.

 

Wrong. I've submitted plenty of non-key books and made very hefty returns. It takes not only knowledge of the comic, but also its census population. I turned a $5 book that I purchased on Sunday at last year's Chicago Con into $250 by just knowing the market. It sat there for the first two days because it was an otherwise nothing book in the middle of a long run, but I also knew when I was it there was a good shot it would be the first 9.8 in the census and I knew of at least two people who would pay well for it.

 

You guys seem to disparage the Copper Age because every book isn't immediately recognized as slabbable for a profit by Joe Q Public. They aren't. And guess what...in this new marketplace, neither are many Silver and Bronze books either. So really, what is the point of this discussion?

 

Again, I said 95 percent of the Copper Age books are not worth even the slabbing price at 9.8. Am I wrong with this statement?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

The problem is getting $60 for your book. Again, I am not talking about key, or even semi-keys. I am talking more about getting a 9.8 Dazzler non key, or some other not too significant issue. True enough you have to know the market, but you can't just pick up any issue, and submit for a 9.8, and make a profit on that. It just won't happen.

 

Wrong. I've submitted plenty of non-key books and made very hefty returns. It takes not only knowledge of the comic, but also its census population. I turned a $5 book that I purchased on Sunday at last year's Chicago Con into $250 by just knowing the market. It sat there for the first two days because it was an otherwise nothing book in the middle of a long run, but I also knew when I was it there was a good shot it would be the first 9.8 in the census and I knew of at least two people who would pay well for it.

 

You guys seem to disparage the Copper Age because every book isn't immediately recognized as slabbable for a profit by Joe Q Public. They aren't. And guess what...in this new marketplace, neither are many Silver and Bronze books either. So really, what is the point of this discussion?

 

Again, I said 95 percent of the Copper Age books are not worth even the slabbing price at 9.8. Am I wrong with this statement?

 

Actually, if you were to take every Copper book into consideration, I would say the number is closer to 98%-99%+. I would think you could do the same with Silver, for that matter. Probably 92-95% of every Silver book isn't worth slabbing either, when you factor all the thousands of mid grade and low grade copies sitting idly in dealer's inventories or in collections.

 

No one is disputing there is a huge glut of available high grade books from 1980-1993 or so (depending on when the Copper Age ended for you). But there is money to be made by those industrious few who know how to do it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

The problem is getting $60 for your book. Again, I am not talking about key, or even semi-keys. I am talking more about getting a 9.8 Dazzler non key, or some other not too significant issue. True enough you have to know the market, but you can't just pick up any issue, and submit for a 9.8, and make a profit on that. It just won't happen.

 

Actually, I wouldn't describe this as a 'problem'. I'd suggest it's a long-overdue adjustment and a return to more sane practices.

Agreed, an example of this is most people don`t want to get thier generic run of 1980`s stuff slabbed for over a $1000.An example, Do I really need every issue in my run of Dazzler to be 9.8`s and spend hundreds to do it? Most people won`t and that is why the prices have dropped dramatically and will continue to drop even more for the mainstream 1980`s to early 1990`s stuff, of course this doesn`t count for last issues and certain indys that you can make a small fortune on.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

The problem is getting $60 for your book. Again, I am not talking about key, or even semi-keys. I am talking more about getting a 9.8 Dazzler non key, or some other not too significant issue. True enough you have to know the market, but you can't just pick up any issue, and submit for a 9.8, and make a profit on that. It just won't happen.

 

Actually, I wouldn't describe this as a 'problem'. I'd suggest it's a long-overdue adjustment and a return to more sane practices.

 

Personally, the most reassuring thing I saw this weekend is that there were still plenty of people with want lists who were going through long boxes, and grade wasn't a primary concern for them.

 

The most depressing thing that I saw, is that when it came to Copper books, almost all the people with lists were guys my age (mid 30s) or older.

 

I had one "kid" (late teens, early 20s) who bought a beat up Transformers # 1 from me for a few bucks. Other then that, I'm wondering if the current collecting community will ever absorb even a quarter of all the 70s/80s/90s stuff that's out there. My guess is no.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

The problem is getting $60 for your book. Again, I am not talking about key, or even semi-keys. I am talking more about getting a 9.8 Dazzler non key, or some other not too significant issue. True enough you have to know the market, but you can't just pick up any issue, and submit for a 9.8, and make a profit on that. It just won't happen.

 

Actually, I wouldn't describe this as a 'problem'. I'd suggest it's a long-overdue adjustment and a return to more sane practices.

 

Personally, the most reassuring thing I saw this weekend is that there were still plenty of people with want lists who were going through long boxes, and grade wasn't a primary concern for them.

 

The most depressing thing that I saw, is that when it came to Copper books, almost all the people with lists were guys my age (mid 30s) or older.

 

I had one "kid" (late teens, early 20s) who bought a beat up Transformers # 1 from me for a few bucks. Other then that, I'm wondering if the current collecting community will ever absorb even a quarter of all the 70s/80s/90s stuff that's out there. My guess is no.

With me personally I just buy the trades/hardcovers from that era plus I got the Marvel Digital subscription so anytime I feel the need to read a Marvel comic from that era its there with a click of a mouse, what I can`t find on Marvel.com then another click of the mouse for a Ebay/Mile High/Mycomicshop purchase, just about anything can be bought from this era for a few bucks and a click of the mouse.

I do read comics from this era I just don`t break the bank doing so.