Ask Gator 13 13

[G.A.tor]

This thread has officially been resurected good stuff

And yah, AA16 is still a cool book and character (GL) but the Internet and Hollywood has made the three big GA heroes (Supe, Bat, Cap) as the standout characters. New collectors are helping to drive the market of all supe-bat-cap keys and related titles. Old school collectors (I'm in the middle) are left holding the bag and wondering why Ad 40s, AA16, MF52, and Marvel 1/9 are hitting all time FMV lows. Flip side, these keys will be had for bargain prices today and foreseeable future...marvel mystery 9 is at $1700-$1800 a point low grade---I would never thought so as its been a big ticket, mutiple guide/high demand book for years.

 

I like bargains. I'm looking forward to buying Adventure 40, Marvel 1, All American 16 and More Fun again over be next couple of years. I'll enjoy owning them more with a smaller amount of money invested in them

but you love the comic more than the profit potential (a good thing mind you)

There are many books one can buy today that will have potential profit and there are many books one can buy today that we should just for the love of collecting comics. Unfortunately when dealing with 4 and 5 fig valued comics no matter how much we love owning the comic there is a value side added variable to the equation. So understanding the market and market indicators will help us make wise purchasing choices relative to both the enjoyment (intangible) and the value (tangibly measured ) factors!

[peewee22]

This thread has officially been resurected good stuff

And yah, AA16 is still a cool book and character (GL) but the Internet and Hollywood has made the three big GA heroes (Supe, Bat, Cap) as the standout characters. New collectors are helping to drive the market of all supe-bat-cap keys and related titles. Old school collectors (I'm in the middle) are left holding the bag and wondering why Ad 40s, AA16, MF52, and Marvel 1/9 are hitting all time FMV lows. Flip side, these keys will be had for bargain prices today and foreseeable future...marvel mystery 9 is at $1700-$1800 a point low grade---I would never thought so as its been a big ticket, mutiple guide/high demand book for years.

 

I like bargains. I'm looking forward to buying Adventure 40, Marvel 1, All American 16 and More Fun again over be next couple of years. I'll enjoy owning them more with a smaller amount of money invested in them

but you love the comic more than the profit potential (a good thing mind you)

There are many books one can buy today that will have potential profit and there are many books one can buy today that we should just for the love of collecting comics. Unfortunately when dealing with 4 and 5 fig valued comics no matter how much we love owning the comic there is a value side added variable to the equation. So understanding the market and market indicators will help us make wise purchasing choices relative to both the enjoyment (intangible) and the value (tangibly measured ) factors!

 

(thumbs u

[Wayne-Tec]

Technically There is no premium paid for unrestored. Fmv is paid for unrestored with a discount (most times) for restored or qualified.

There is only 1 cgc 1.0 on census but I sold a cgc 1.0 with sb pages last year for 7k. Buyer opted to restore the book (Matt sent in label to have removed from census)

 

Given that I have sold a raw fr/gd at less than 10k I can confirm the existence regardless of what anyone out there believes and I know of several other lower grade fortressed housed unrestored copies. The appeal of aa16 is generally not to this group of 20somethings you reference, but to "old school" collectors (regardless of age) and many don't value or care about cgcing a book

 

As mentioned as many of these collectors age and part with their collections we will see more aa16, mf52, adv40, etc hit the market and my guess is the market will absorb the copies but not at any premium to today's pricing.

 

Premium paid for unrestored vs. discount given for PLOD results in essentially the same point I was making: blue labels will sell for much more than their purple label counterparts.

 

Raw copies leave the door open to missed restoration and (at times) some uncertainty grade-wise. On five-figure books, the difference between half grade points can have a financial impact.

 

Notice we almost never see raw, unrestored copies of mega-key books come through the major auction houses. In relation to their value, it's not that difficult to slab a book and guarantee its being unrestored.

 

My comments were in response to the last public sale of slabbed example (which sold well above the better-graded raw copies you've referenced).

on low grade aa16 we have seen Several plods sell for approximately what one would pay for a blue label in that grade (3 diff clink sales). So not so sure on low grade there is huge premium generally paid. All low grade aa16s (plod or unrestored) seem to sell in the same general range from my experience (7-10k give or take an Exception here or there). The book is still "rare" but just doesn't command great demand these days (and unlikely that will change seems to be the majority opinion)

 

You can't say that PLODs are selling for blue label prices when we don't have blue label sales examples in the present to compare them to.

 

There has been only one recent sale of a blue label and it sold well above the PLOD prices you're referencing. Which makes sense, blue labels do sell for more than PLODs.

I said unrestored not blue label, and I have record of 3 sales where a blue label did sell for same as a plod (clink sales and one of my own within last year) so that statement holds true as well. And I am done with this line of "debate" ...Ive said all i can say and i can't present my case any clearer with regards to aa16 so onto the next "ask gator" question

 

I was referring to blue label copies due to the uncertain nature of raw copies in respects to restoration-detection and grade. So I'm not surprised to see raw copies sell lower. You wouldn't likely see a raw AA #16 in a major auction if it were unrestored, since paying the slabing fees removes uncertainty and leads to higher sales.

 

I do believe that PLODs more recently may have sold for the same prices blue labels were commanding prior to those sales; but the most recent example shows one of the few blue labels in existence selling for above what the PLODs you referenced did.

 

Which makes sense since we know blue labels sell for more than PLODs.

[Sqeggs]

Dear G.A.tor:

 

Looking forward say 5 to 10 years, are there books in your current top 10 that you would expect to fall out of it? Are there books not currently in your top 10 that you would expect to rise into it?

 

Thanks.

 

Sqeggs

[gino2paulus2]

This thread has officially been resurected good stuff

And yah, AA16 is still a cool book and character (GL) but the Internet and Hollywood has made the three big GA heroes (Supe, Bat, Cap) as the standout characters. New collectors are helping to drive the market of all supe-bat-cap keys and related titles. Old school collectors (I'm in the middle) are left holding the bag and wondering why Ad 40s, AA16, MF52, and Marvel 1/9 are hitting all time FMV lows. Flip side, these keys will be had for bargain prices today and foreseeable future...marvel mystery 9 is at $1700-$1800 a point low grade---I would never thought so as its been a big ticket, mutiple guide/high demand book for years.

 

I like bargains. I'm looking forward to buying Adventure 40, Marvel 1, All American 16 and More Fun again over be next couple of years. I'll enjoy owning them more with a smaller amount of money invested in them

but you love the comic more than the profit potential (a good thing mind you)

There are many books one can buy today that will have potential profit and there are many books one can buy today that we should just for the love of collecting comics. Unfortunately when dealing with 4 and 5 fig valued comics no matter how much we love owning the comic there is a value side added variable to the equation. So understanding the market and market indicators will help us make wise purchasing choices relative to both the enjoyment (intangible) and the value (tangibly measured ) factors!

 

Well Said Dude!!!! LOVE OF THE COMIC>profit potential...I really wanted to use a alliGATOR head for the greater than symbol but couldnt figure out how to do it hehehe

Edited April 23, 2013 by gino2paulus2

[gino2paulus2]

here we go...figured it out

 

LOVE OF THE COMIC

 

Well maybe I didnt figure it out you get the idea!!!

[G.A.tor]

Dear G.A.tor:

 

Looking forward say 5 to 10 years, are there books in your current top 10 that you would expect to fall out of it? Are there books not currently in your top 10 that you would expect to rise into it?

 

Thanks.

 

Sqeggs

a book like all star 8 could enter b.c. There is talk of making WW relevant again (tv show/movie)

 

Tec 29 is already nipping at the heels. Action 10/13 will continue to rise. Small chance a pep 22 could take a step back, as could aa16 but both books are rare enough that even limited demand should keep prices somewhat constant (though probably not rising at rate the main players will)

[gino2paulus2]

Hey Gator,

 

Do you miss Urban Meyer (2 National Championships and votes Coach of the Decade) or are you happy with Will Muschamp?

[RedFury]

Dear G.A.tor:

 

Looking forward say 5 to 10 years, are there books in your current top 10 that you would expect to fall out of it? Are there books not currently in your top 10 that you would expect to rise into it?

 

Thanks.

 

Sqeggs

a book like all star 8 could enter b.c. There is talk of making WW relevant again (tv show/movie)

 

Tec 29 is already nipping at the heels. Action 10/13 will continue to rise. Small chance a pep 22 could take a step back, as could aa16 but both books are rare enough that even limited demand should keep prices somewhat constant (though probably not rising at rate the main players will)

All-Star 8 has already shown upward movement the past two years. Whether that has to due with rumored film/tv development, or just renewed interest in DC's third most well-known character, I couldn't say.

[1koko]

This thread has officially been resurected good stuff

And yah, AA16 is still a cool book and character (GL) but the Internet and Hollywood has made the three big GA heroes (Supe, Bat, Cap) as the standout characters. New collectors are helping to drive the market of all supe-bat-cap keys and related titles. Old school collectors (I'm in the middle) are left holding the bag and wondering why Ad 40s, AA16, MF52, and Marvel 1/9 are hitting all time FMV lows. Flip side, these keys will be had for bargain prices today and foreseeable future...marvel mystery 9 is at $1700-$1800 a point low grade---I would never thought so as its been a big ticket, mutiple guide/high demand book for years.

 

I like bargains. I'm looking forward to buying Adventure 40, Marvel 1, All American 16 and More Fun again over be next couple of years. I'll enjoy owning them more with a smaller amount of money invested in them

 

Not all Marvel 1s are selling for low prices

 

I sold mine in 2013 for substantially higher than I paid for it (Buyer asked me not to disclose price - sorry).

[G.A.tor]

Hey Gator,

 

Do you miss Urban Meyer (2 National Championships and votes Coach of the Decade) or are you happy with Will Muschamp?

only natural to miss the first 4 years Urban vs the last 2 years urban...

 

muschamp is fine...but until he wins a natty, you can never be "satisfied"

[G.A.tor]

This thread has officially been resurected good stuff

And yah, AA16 is still a cool book and character (GL) but the Internet and Hollywood has made the three big GA heroes (Supe, Bat, Cap) as the standout characters. New collectors are helping to drive the market of all supe-bat-cap keys and related titles. Old school collectors (I'm in the middle) are left holding the bag and wondering why Ad 40s, AA16, MF52, and Marvel 1/9 are hitting all time FMV lows. Flip side, these keys will be had for bargain prices today and foreseeable future...marvel mystery 9 is at $1700-$1800 a point low grade---I would never thought so as its been a big ticket, mutiple guide/high demand book for years.

 

I like bargains. I'm looking forward to buying Adventure 40, Marvel 1, All American 16 and More Fun again over be next couple of years. I'll enjoy owning them more with a smaller amount of money invested in them

 

Not all Marvel 1s are selling for low prices

 

I sold mine in 2013 for substantially higher than I paid for it (Buyer asked me not to disclose price - sorry).

diff between high grade and low grade

[Primetime]

This thread has officially been resurected good stuff

And yah, AA16 is still a cool book and character (GL) but the Internet and Hollywood has made the three big GA heroes (Supe, Bat, Cap) as the standout characters. New collectors are helping to drive the market of all supe-bat-cap keys and related titles. Old school collectors (I'm in the middle) are left holding the bag and wondering why Ad 40s, AA16, MF52, and Marvel 1/9 are hitting all time FMV lows. Flip side, these keys will be had for bargain prices today and foreseeable future...marvel mystery 9 is at $1700-$1800 a point low grade---I would never thought so as its been a big ticket, mutiple guide/high demand book for years.

 

I like bargains. I'm looking forward to buying Adventure 40, Marvel 1, All American 16 and More Fun again over be next couple of years. I'll enjoy owning them more with a smaller amount of money invested in them

yup exactly bill. Take advantage of cheaper prices. Heck, I may even buy an AA16 at those prices. Still a rare book not seen as much, and I've never owned one.

[Sqeggs]

Dear G.A.tor,

 

This one may be too off-the-wall to answer, but do you have a rough idea of how many GA collectors there are? Specifically, how many collectors are there who would be willing, at least occasionally, to spend, say, $10K on a GA book? Would you say there are 100, 1,000, 10,000 ... ?

 

Thanks.

 

Sqeggs

[Primetime]

This thread has officially been resurected good stuff

And yah, AA16 is still a cool book and character (GL) but the Internet and Hollywood has made the three big GA heroes (Supe, Bat, Cap) as the standout characters. New collectors are helping to drive the market of all supe-bat-cap keys and related titles. Old school collectors (I'm in the middle) are left holding the bag and wondering why Ad 40s, AA16, MF52, and Marvel 1/9 are hitting all time FMV lows. Flip side, these keys will be had for bargain prices today and foreseeable future...marvel mystery 9 is at $1700-$1800 a point low grade---I would never thought so as its been a big ticket, mutiple guide/high demand book for years.

 

I like bargains. I'm looking forward to buying Adventure 40, Marvel 1, All American 16 and More Fun again over be next couple of years. I'll enjoy owning them more with a smaller amount of money invested in them

but you love the comic more than the profit potential (a good thing mind you)

There are many books one can buy today that will have potential profit and there are many books one can buy today that we should just for the love of collecting comics. Unfortunately when dealing with 4 and 5 fig valued comics no matter how much we love owning the comic there is a value side added variable to the equation. So understanding the market and market indicators will help us make wise purchasing choices relative to both the enjoyment (intangible) and the value (tangibly measured ) factors!

I can relate to this one. Something is up when you can easily buy back a book in equal or lesser grade much cheaper than what you sold it for. Case in point Marvel Mystery 9---my all time non Cap Timely but I could no longer keep at the cost I had into it...so, I took a loss, rolled that loss into a more solid book, and hope to come out ok. And it is good to know a mm9 can be reaquired several thousands of dollars cheaper than before

[Primetime]

This thread has officially been resurected good stuff

And yah, AA16 is still a cool book and character (GL) but the Internet and Hollywood has made the three big GA heroes (Supe, Bat, Cap) as the standout characters. New collectors are helping to drive the market of all supe-bat-cap keys and related titles. Old school collectors (I'm in the middle) are left holding the bag and wondering why Ad 40s, AA16, MF52, and Marvel 1/9 are hitting all time FMV lows. Flip side, these keys will be had for bargain prices today and foreseeable future...marvel mystery 9 is at $1700-$1800 a point low grade---I would never thought so as its been a big ticket, mutiple guide/high demand book for years.

 

I like bargains. I'm looking forward to buying Adventure 40, Marvel 1, All American 16 and More Fun again over be next couple of years. I'll enjoy owning them more with a smaller amount of money invested in them

 

Not all Marvel 1s are selling for low prices

 

I sold mine in 2013 for substantially higher than I paid for it (Buyer asked me not to disclose price - sorry).

your books are the exception George

[Cat-Man_America]

[font:Times New Roman]Dear Gator,

 

Which of these do you consider most important for folks of our age on the basketball court:

 

1. Magical shoes.

 

2. Kewl sportswear that folks will remember longer than the performance.

 

3. A cute nurse at court-side with an oxygen tank.

 

[/font]

[G.A.tor]

Dear G.A.tor,

 

This one may be too off-the-wall to answer, but do you have a rough idea of how many GA collectors there are? Specifically, how many collectors are there who would be willing, at least occasionally, to spend, say, $10K on a GA book? Would you say there are 100, 1,000, 10,000 ... ?

 

Thanks.

 

Sqeggs

I could really only speak for folks that have bought from me...a company like metro, clink, heritage could give a better ball park....

I would guess the number of folks that spend 5 figs on a comic number in the hundreds, maybe even low thousands...

[G.A.tor]

[font:Times New Roman]Dear Gator,

 

Which of these do you consider most important for folks of our age on the basketball court:

 

1. Magical shoes.

 

2. Kewl sportswear that folks will remember longer than the performance.

 

3. A cute nurse at court-side with an oxygen tank.

 

[/font]

4) all of the above

[Flex Mentallo]

[font:Times New Roman]Dear Gator,

 

Which of these do you consider most important for folks of our age on the basketball court:

 

1. Magical shoes.

 

2. Kewl sportswear that folks will remember longer than the performance.

 

3. A cute nurse at court-side with an oxygen tank.

 

[/font]

4) all of the above

 

To summarize, a cute nurse wearing kewl sportswear and magical shoes, carrying an oxygen cylinder. Get's my vote too!