How Do We Achieve Pro-Active Disclosure In The Marketplace?

[Comicopolis]

OK, we're done with the question of whether we want it...the results are unarguable...so the question is...by what method do we achieve it?

 

As this is entirely community-centric, the only democratic way to take this forward is to run another poll. There are four significantly different choices that I've been able to come up with and I want people to choose two of them...your ideal scenario, and one that you would accept.

 

They are...

 

(1) Request that Arch includes pro-active disclosure in the Marketplace rules with the standard actions/sanctions being the consequence of non-adherence.

 

(2) No inclusion in the rules, but the acceptance of one post being allowed per sales thread, requesting pro-active disclosure. The precise content can be worked out, but something civil and mannerly, along the lines of 'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

(3) The maintenance of a 'Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who actively disclose in all of their sales thread.

 

(4) The maintenance of a 'Non-Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who make no effort to pro-actively disclose in their sales thread.

 

 

 

Regardless if you agree or disagree with pressing, the fact of matter is CGC doesn't consider it restoration. If you buy, send in or patronize CGC comics it's a chance that you are taking.

 

I still don't see why that's an argument against telling potential buyers what you know about a book.

 

It isn't.

[pickycollector]

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not,

 

I don't understand this.

 

If somebody doesn't care if a book has been pressed or not, he will buy a book regardless if pressing is disclosed or not.

 

On the other hand, if somebody does care if a book has been pressed or not, he will not buy a book that is pressed or that may have been pressed.

 

Disclosing if a book has.. a) been pressed or b) not been pressed or c) you don't know, just increase the probability of a sale.

 

Personally, I can and already did (and still will) buy unpressed books from people whom I know do press but they do disclose.

 

Non-disclosure in the CGC Forum just reduce the number of potential buyers. As simple as that.

 

[Dale Roberts]

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not, but I will be happy to answer honestly any questions regarding pressing (or anything else) that I know on books I sell in the marketplace or anywhere else. I will always pro-actively disclose any known restoration on anything I sell, and if I miss something, I will do my best to make it right.

 

 

Dale, out of curiosity and not casting stones, do you not proactively disclose pressed books on the boards because of the extra effort involved, because of possible difference in success of sales or a different reason?

 

Several reasons actually. Partly (mostly?) because I get so many slabs in from different invoices and from many months back, that it would take time to go back and look at what was sent to be pressed, what was sent for pro-screen and did not pass, etc.

 

For example, I have just finished scanning about 65 slabs to run a sales thread, and alot of the books came back to me at conventions (thanks Gemma) and on alot of the books, I have no idea which ones were pressed and which ones were not.

 

I also purchase many books already slabbed and can guess whether or not books have been pressed, but I can never know for sure. And I have seen books which have been pressed that looked like they needed another press, so you can't always tell by looking.

 

I don't see any reason to proactively disclose here, when I don't do so to the public at large. None of my competition (major high grade convention/ web site dealers) proactively disclose. For me to put a sticker that says pressed on books that have been pressed puts me on an uneven playing field with my competition, and this is not something I am willing to do, because this is how I make my living.

 

Not to mention that I still have never had anyone ask me whether or not a book has been pressed except members of this board. To mark a book as pressed would make an issue out of something that is not an issue. No one outside of this board cares. I firmly believe that.

 

And finally, because I don't feel that it is necessary. Anyone that knows me, knows that all they have to do is ask, and I will tell them the truth, whether the answer is pressed, not pressed, or I don't know.

 

 

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not,

 

I don't understand this.

 

If somebody doesn't care if a book has been pressed or not, he will buy a book regardless if pressing is disclosed or not.

 

On the other hand, if somebody does care if a book has been pressed or not, he will not buy a book that is pressed or that may have been pressed.

 

Disclosing if a book has.. a) been pressed or b) not been pressed or c) you don't know, just increase the probability of a sale.

 

Personally, I can and already did (and still will) buy unpressed books from people whom I know do press but they do disclose.

 

Non-disclosure in the CGC Forum just reduce the number of potential buyers. As simple as that.

 

Not asking you to understand it. The sales forum is a tiny portion of my overall sales and I have never had a complaint about the number of books which I sell.

If people care, they should care enough to ask.............., and they usually do.

 

What you should be curious about are the people on the sales forum who say the book is not pressed, but DON'T disclose the fact that Matt or someone else pro-screened the book and said pressing would not help the book. I have seen this in person with a number of forumites on both slabs and raw books.

 

I see some people pro-actively disclose because they think it makes them look ethical. Ethics is rarely about appearances, but more what you stand for.

 

 

[gaz973]

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not, but I will be happy to answer honestly any questions regarding pressing (or anything else) that I know on books I sell in the marketplace or anywhere else. I will always pro-actively disclose any known restoration on anything I sell, and if I miss something, I will do my best to make it right.

 

 

Dale, out of curiosity and not casting stones, do you not proactively disclose pressed books on the boards because of the extra effort involved, because of possible difference in success of sales or a different reason?

 

Several reasons actually. Partly (mostly?) because I get so many slabs in from different invoices and from many months back, that it would take time to go back and look at what was sent to be pressed, what was sent for pro-screen and did not pass, etc.

 

For example, I have just finished scanning about 65 slabs to run a sales thread, and alot of the books came back to me at conventions (thanks Gemma) and on alot of the books, I have no idea which ones were pressed and which ones were not.

 

I also purchase many books already slabbed and can guess whether or not books have been pressed, but I can never know for sure. And I have seen books which have been pressed that looked like they needed another press, so you can't always tell by looking.

 

I don't see any reason to proactively disclose here, when I don't do so to the public at large. None of my competition (major high grade convention/ web site dealers) proactively disclose. For me to put a sticker that says pressed on books that have been pressed puts me on an uneven playing field with my competition, and this is not something I am willing to do, because this is how I make my living.

 

Not to mention that I still have never had anyone ask me whether or not a book has been pressed except members of this board. To mark a book as pressed would make an issue out of something that is not an issue. No one outside of this board cares. I firmly believe that.

 

And finally, because I don't feel that it is necessary. Anyone that knows me, knows that all they have to do is ask, and I will tell them the truth, whether the answer is pressed, not pressed, or I don't know.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply. (thumbs u

[buttock]

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not,

 

I don't understand this.

 

If somebody doesn't care if a book has been pressed or not, he will buy a book regardless if pressing is disclosed or not.

 

On the other hand, if somebody does care if a book has been pressed or not, he will not buy a book that is pressed or that may have been pressed.

 

Disclosing if a book has.. a) been pressed or b) not been pressed or c) you don't know, just increase the probability of a sale.

 

Personally, I can and already did (and still will) buy unpressed books from people whom I know do press but they do disclose.

 

Non-disclosure in the CGC Forum just reduce the number of potential buyers. As simple as that.

 

Not asking you to understand it. The sales forum is a tiny portion of my overall sales and I have never had a complaint about the number of books which I sell.

If people care, they should care enough to ask.............., and they usually do.

 

What you should be curious about are the people on the sales forum who say the book is not pressed, but DON'T disclose the fact that Matt or someone else pro-screened the book and said pressing would not help the book. I have seen this in person with a number of forumites on both slabs and raw books.

 

I see some people pro-actively disclose because they think it makes them look ethical. Ethics is rarely about appearances, but more what you stand for.

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not, but I will be happy to answer honestly any questions regarding pressing (or anything else) that I know on books I sell in the marketplace or anywhere else. I will always pro-actively disclose any known restoration on anything I sell, and if I miss something, I will do my best to make it right.

 

 

Dale, out of curiosity and not casting stones, do you not proactively disclose pressed books on the boards because of the extra effort involved, because of possible difference in success of sales or a different reason?

 

Several reasons actually. Partly (mostly?) because I get so many slabs in from different invoices and from many months back, that it would take time to go back and look at what was sent to be pressed, what was sent for pro-screen and did not pass, etc.

 

For example, I have just finished scanning about 65 slabs to run a sales thread, and alot of the books came back to me at conventions (thanks Gemma) and on alot of the books, I have no idea which ones were pressed and which ones were not.

 

I also purchase many books already slabbed and can guess whether or not books have been pressed, but I can never know for sure. And I have seen books which have been pressed that looked like they needed another press, so you can't always tell by looking.

 

I don't see any reason to proactively disclose here, when I don't do so to the public at large. None of my competition (major high grade convention/ web site dealers) proactively disclose. For me to put a sticker that says pressed on books that have been pressed puts me on an uneven playing field with my competition, and this is not something I am willing to do, because this is how I make my living.

 

Not to mention that I still have never had anyone ask me whether or not a book has been pressed except members of this board. To mark a book as pressed would make an issue out of something that is not an issue. No one outside of this board cares. I firmly believe that.

 

And finally, because I don't feel that it is necessary. Anyone that knows me, knows that all they have to do is ask, and I will tell them the truth, whether the answer is pressed, not pressed, or I don't know.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply. (thumbs u

No problem Gaz. I hope you can understand and accept my reasoning.

 

I am not doing it out of some need to be a contrarian. I am completely for disclosure, it is the pro-active part that I don't see as necessary.

 

Either way, some people are going to be honest about disclosure, and some people are not. \\

[Mr. Zipper]

To mark a book as pressed would make an issue out of something that is not an issue. No one outside of this board cares. I firmly believe that.

 

I think it would be more accurate to state that few outside of this board KNOW. We see it time and time again here... a newbie joins and among the first questions they ask is "what is this 'pressing' all about?"

 

If the community at large was fully educated about pressing, the lines would probably break around the same percentages as we see here, i.e., plenty of people would care.

[bdera303-migration]

 

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not, but I will be happy to answer honestly any questions regarding pressing (or anything else) that I know on books I sell in the marketplace or anywhere else.

 

 

That is the exact same way I feel. It should be up to the buyer to ask. If they do not ask then they do not care. As long as a book has been properly pressed it can only enhance the value of the comic and not hurt it.

[comicdonna]

As long as a book has been properly pressed it can only enhance the value of the comic and not hurt it.

This is yet to be proven.

[RockMyAmadeus]

So.

 

Anyone know of any books that were pressed in the 80's/90's, say by Susan (or Matt, or anyone else for that matter)...?

 

We know it happened, and someone, somewhere still knows the precise book(s) it happened to.

 

So....why not make with those books, and find out what the long term effects, if any, are?

 

Surely, in this community, we can come up with at least a single book that was pressed 20-25 years ago, no?

[Rino]

As long as a book has been properly pressed it can only enhance the value of the comic and not hurt it.

This is yet to be proven.

 

Actually, I would say it has 'yet to be disproved'.

[Comicopolis]

As long as a book has been properly pressed it can only enhance the value of the comic and not hurt it.

This is yet to be proven.

 

Actually, I would say it has 'yet to be disproved'.

 

Well, if pressing a book guarantees to enhance the value why aren't sellers jumping up and down to say 'this book has been pressed' so they can get more money for it?

[pickycollector]

What you should be curious about are the people on the sales forum who say the book is not pressed, but DON'T disclose the fact that Matt or someone else pro-screened the book and said pressing would not help the book. I have seen this in person with a number of forumites on both slabs and raw books.

Personally, as a collector, I really don't care to know if a book is "pressable" or not, I just need to know if it was pressed or not, as I don't like "manipulated" books, nor do I like date stamps, signatures or off-centered covers.

 

Maybe I did buy in the past in this Forum unpressed books from pressers that do disclose and which were pro-screened as "unimproveable", then what ? They were disclosed as unpressed and that is enough to me, like it is I'm sure for most people here who do not want pressed books in their collection. To me, the seller of the book did the ethical thing.

 

I am much more reluctant to buy from a seller whom does not disclose than I am to buy from someone that does pro-actively disclose.

 

[ChasingKingKirby]

I, for one, choose NOT to proactively disclose whether a book has been pressed or not, but I will be happy to answer honestly any questions regarding pressing (or anything else) that I know on books I sell in the marketplace or anywhere else. I will always pro-actively disclose any known restoration on anything I sell, and if I miss something, I will do my best to make it right.

 

 

Dale, out of curiosity and not casting stones, do you not proactively disclose pressed books on the boards because of the extra effort involved, because of possible difference in success of sales or a different reason?

 

Several reasons actually. Partly (mostly?) because I get so many slabs in from different invoices and from many months back, that it would take time to go back and look at what was sent to be pressed, what was sent for pro-screen and did not pass, etc.

 

For example, I have just finished scanning about 65 slabs to run a sales thread, and alot of the books came back to me at conventions (thanks Gemma) and on alot of the books, I have no idea which ones were pressed and which ones were not.

 

I also purchase many books already slabbed and can guess whether or not books have been pressed, but I can never know for sure. And I have seen books which have been pressed that looked like they needed another press, so you can't always tell by looking.

 

I don't see any reason to proactively disclose here, when I don't do so to the public at large. None of my competition (major high grade convention/ web site dealers) proactively disclose. For me to put a sticker that says pressed on books that have been pressed puts me on an uneven playing field with my competition, and this is not something I am willing to do, because this is how I make my living.

 

Not to mention that I still have never had anyone ask me whether or not a book has been pressed except members of this board. To mark a book as pressed would make an issue out of something that is not an issue. No one outside of this board cares. I firmly believe that.

 

And finally, because I don't feel that it is necessary. Anyone that knows me, knows that all they have to do is ask, and I will tell them the truth, whether the answer is pressed, not pressed, or I don't know.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply. (thumbs u

No problem Gaz. I hope you can understand and accept my reasoning.

 

I am not doing it out of some need to be a contrarian. I am completely for disclosure, it is the pro-active part that I don't see as necessary.

 

Either way, some people are going to be honest about disclosure, and some people are not. \\

 

I will say that I just purchased a beautiful JIM 104 from Dale and I DID ask if it had been pressed. He replied that it had not, but that it had been pro-screened by Matt Nelson and it would make no difference to the grade to press it. I'm all for disclosure, and I picked the best method to get it. I asked.

[pickycollector]

As long as a book has been properly pressed it can only enhance the value of the comic and not hurt it.

This is yet to be proven.

 

Actually, I would say it has 'yet to be disproved'.

 

Well, if pressing a book guarantees to enhance the value why aren't sellers jumping up and down to say 'this book has been pressed' so they can get more money for it?

 

Excellent point (thumbs u

[comicdonna]

I will be looking into getting a few samples tested for damage soon. Both old and new, pressed books. I would ideally like to see microscopic pictures of the paper fibers in comparison to books that have not been pressed.

[DrWatson]

As long as a book has been properly pressed it can only enhance the value of the comic and not hurt it.

This is yet to be proven.

 

Actually, I would say it has 'yet to be disproved'.

 

Well, if pressing a book guarantees to enhance the value why aren't sellers jumping up and down to say 'this book has been pressed' so they can get more money for it?

Pressing does not guarantee to enhance a book's value. If done correctly, about the only thing it guarantees is to make the book present better.

[Comicopolis]

As long as a book has been properly pressed it can only enhance the value of the comic and not hurt it.

This is yet to be proven.

 

Actually, I would say it has 'yet to be disproved'.

 

Well, if pressing a book guarantees to enhance the value why aren't sellers jumping up and down to say 'this book has been pressed' so they can get more money for it?

Pressing does not guarantee to enhance a book's value. If done correctly, about the only thing it guarantees is to make the book present better.

 

I know that Jim.

[DrWatson]

You just experienced reinforced learning... and don't take that tone with me.