Do dealers WANT to sell their books?

[jkrk]

I sell books from time to time for a lark.

 

Random thought time:

 

1)Uncle Phil knows what he is talking about. (thumbs u

 

2)I only offer books online to engage in human interaction (sales are not important) In the real world no one else talks to me.

 

3)If a book fails to sell after three attempts then I use the book as a fire starter.

 

4)Last rule - Buyers are addicts and will eventually pay the price.

 

 

NOT EVERY BOOK OFFERED FOR SALE IS NEGOTIABLE OR FOR SALE.

[Ted Knight]

There is a greater concern that I think that Mark is getting at. By dealers maintaining large (and I do mean large) inventories of relatively scarce goods at artificial prices, a bubble is created not unlike any of the other bubbles from the last 10 years.

 

Think about it as supply and demand. If Dealer 'x' maintains an inventory of multiple copies of a given comic that is scarce (especially in high grade) through pricing above current FMV (hence why it doesn't sell), then what happens if that dealer finds themselves upside down and in need of sales. They drop prices to FMV or lower and those books sell, increasing the supply of copies on the market, creating downward pressure on prices again.

 

The supposition out there that most dealers subscribe to is that the value of comics always goes up. Kind of like the housing market.

 

If any of the major dealers out there went out of business (through poor management or otherwise), the market would have to absorb that inventory somehow (typically at massively devalued prices). I personally like the huge selection that Metropolis has on their website but I wonder if they might end up with all the comics someday.

 

I don't mind market fluctuation, I buy comics because I love them, nothing rational about it really. But crashes make me nervous. Consider how many GA comic collectors out there that are reaching 70-80 years of age. There are massive collections of currently "hard to find" books that will come to market in the next 10 years. Typically, dealers would try to absorb these into inventory and sell off undercopies, driving prices down on mid to lower grades and propping up higher grades. Are there enough of us out there to replace those collectors? I don't know.

 

I hope not. I've got a long want list and limited resources.

[jjonahjameson1]

There is a greater concern that I think that Mark is getting at. By dealers maintaining large (and I do mean large) inventories of relatively scarce goods at artificial prices, a bubble is created not unlike any of the other bubbles from the last 10 years.

 

Think about it as supply and demand. If Dealer 'x' maintains an inventory of multiple copies of a given comic that is scarce (especially in high grade) through pricing above current FMV (hence why it doesn't sell), then what happens if that dealer finds themselves upside down and in need of sales. They drop prices to FMV or lower and those books sell, increasing the supply of copies on the market, creating downward pressure on prices again.

 

The supposition out there that most dealers subscribe to is that the value of comics always goes up. Kind of like the housing market.

 

If any of the major dealers out there went out of business (through poor management or otherwise), the market would have to absorb that inventory somehow (typically at massively devalued prices). I personally like the huge selection that Metropolis has on their website but I wonder if they might end up with all the comics someday.

 

I don't mind market fluctuation, I buy comics because I love them, nothing rational about it really. But crashes make me nervous. Consider how many GA comic collectors out there that are reaching 70-80 years of age. There are massive collections of currently "hard to find" books that will come to market in the next 10 years. Typically, dealers would try to absorb these into inventory and sell off undercopies, driving prices down on mid to lower grades and propping up higher grades. Are there enough of us out there to replace those collectors? I don't know.

 

I hope not. I've got a long want list and limited resources.

 

A great post with lots of worthwhile discussion points. I used to attend 5-10 conventions per year, mostly in the North (Motorcity, Pittsburgh, NY, etc) and I don't recall seeing more than a handful of fellas in their 60s, let alone their 70s. The majority of the folks collecting GA books were (are?) baby boomers.

 

The big question here is whether or not the children of boomers will be able to absorb their books once they decide to cash in. I'm certain all of the quality high grade/key titles will be absorbed with ease, but there's a lot of mid and low grade stuff out there from 2nd tier and 3rd tier titles that will have difficulty finding new owners.

[G.A.tor]

There is a greater concern that I think that Mark is getting at. By dealers maintaining large (and I do mean large) inventories of relatively scarce goods at artificial prices, a bubble is created not unlike any of the other bubbles from the last 10 years.

 

Think about it as supply and demand. If Dealer 'x' maintains an inventory of multiple copies of a given comic that is scarce (especially in high grade) through pricing above current FMV (hence why it doesn't sell), then what happens if that dealer finds themselves upside down and in need of sales. They drop prices to FMV or lower and those books sell, increasing the supply of copies on the market, creating downward pressure on prices again.

 

The supposition out there that most dealers subscribe to is that the value of comics always goes up. Kind of like the housing market.

 

If any of the major dealers out there went out of business (through poor management or otherwise), the market would have to absorb that inventory somehow (typically at massively devalued prices). I personally like the huge selection that Metropolis has on their website but I wonder if they might end up with all the comics someday.

 

I don't mind market fluctuation, I buy comics because I love them, nothing rational about it really. But crashes make me nervous. Consider how many GA comic collectors out there that are reaching 70-80 years of age. There are massive collections of currently "hard to find" books that will come to market in the next 10 years. Typically, dealers would try to absorb these into inventory and sell off undercopies, driving prices down on mid to lower grades and propping up higher grades. Are there enough of us out there to replace those collectors? I don't know.

 

I hope not. I've got a long want list and limited resources.

 

A great post with lots of worthwhile discussion points. I used to attend 5-10 conventions per year, mostly in the North (Motorcity, Pittsburgh, NY, etc) and I don't recall seeing more than a handful of fellas in their 60s, let alone their 70s. The majority of the folks collecting GA books were (are?) baby boomers.

 

The big question here is whether or not the children of boomers will be able to absorb their books once they decide to cash in. I'm certain all of the quality high grade/key titles will be absorbed with ease, but there's a lot of mid and low grade stuff out there from 2nd tier and 3rd tier titles that will have difficulty finding new owners.

seems the time line on the baby boomer children is 10-20 years...plenty of time to absorb, assuming a comparable rate of product availability as we have seen over the past 30 years when the previous "boomer's" kids (like me) began to collect

[skypinkblu]

Actually, as a collector of low grade books, I've never had a problem selling my doubles, extras...etc...eBay is the perfect place for them if they don't get scooped up here, first (and many do). I find younger collectors buying them all the time AND they can even afford to pay for them.

 

What I do see is more competition for the ones I want to buy. I think some "collectors" are less afraid of collecting those, than investing in high grade books, which can be more risky.

[october]

And it costs me nothing to carry the book around

What do you mean? What about things like opportunity cost, ROI, time value of money, etc.? The book might not require you to expend more money, but the money that you spent to acquire the book in the first place could be earning more money for you in a different, possibly much safer investment. If you`re not beating those other benchmarks, then that book is indeed losing money for you even if you`re not losing money in an unsophisticated layman`s sense.

 

Very true. On top of that, dealers often have cash flow problems which generally stem from a low turnover rate. If I make a bad buy, I acknowledge it, take a loss, learn from it, and put the money towards a purchase that makes sense....a purchase I may not have been able to afford if I had just hung on to bad inventory like grim death.

Yeah, but by virtue of your business degree, you're a bit more sophisticated than the average person and a lot more sophisticated than the average comic dealer.

Vanderbilt, really

I tried to convince him to go to a better school, but what can ya do?

we can lead them to water, but we cannot make them stand up when they p (thumbs u

 

 

Luckily my girlfriend also went to Vandy, or else I would never hear the end of Florida's superiority....

 

 

 

 

....in athletics.

[october]

I get the impression that some dealers want customers, other want suckers.

 

They are hoping for the person who is looking to fill his collection, only needs 1 more book, the dealer has it. Even though they are charging full guide or more, the collector will buy it just to finish off their collection.

 

This is very true. I think it's a flawed business model though. While that dealer waits to get a sucker at 100% of guide for something like a midgrade silver Marvel, there are other dealers who price it fairly (half to two thirds of guide), make a decent profit, and then roll that money into similar books. Unless we are talking about super high grades, truly rare gold or short-print modern indies, comic inventory is readily replaceable, especially at prices that allow for convention markups. By the time dealer A finds his sucker, dealer B has rolled his inventory over multiple times, kept a good cash flow, extracted profit from the process and made more money off the fast nickel than the slow dime.

 

I'd rather spend $20 and sell for $30 five times than spend $20 and sell for $50 once.

[adamstrange]

I get the impression that some dealers want customers, other want suckers.

 

They are hoping for the person who is looking to fill his collection, only needs 1 more book, the dealer has it. Even though they are charging full guide or more, the collector will buy it just to finish off their collection.

 

This is very true. I think it's a flawed business model though. While that dealer waits to get a sucker at 100% of guide for something like a midgrade silver Marvel, there are other dealers who price it fairly (half to two thirds of guide), make a decent profit, and then roll that money into similar books. Unless we are talking about super high grades, truly rare gold or short-print modern indies, comic inventory is readily replaceable, especially at prices that allow for convention markups. By the time dealer A finds his sucker, dealer B has rolled his inventory over multiple times, kept a good cash flow, extracted profit from the process and made more money off the fast nickel than the slow dime.

 

I'd rather spend $20 and sell for $30 five times than spend $20 and sell for $50 once.

There are many shop owners unable to execute either strategy successfully.

[Ted Knight]

I get the impression that some dealers want customers, other want suckers.

 

They are hoping for the person who is looking to fill his collection, only needs 1 more book, the dealer has it. Even though they are charging full guide or more, the collector will buy it just to finish off their collection.

 

This is very true. I think it's a flawed business model though. While that dealer waits to get a sucker at 100% of guide for something like a midgrade silver Marvel, there are other dealers who price it fairly (half to two thirds of guide), make a decent profit, and then roll that money into similar books. Unless we are talking about super high grades, truly rare gold or short-print modern indies, comic inventory is readily replaceable, especially at prices that allow for convention markups. By the time dealer A finds his sucker, dealer B has rolled his inventory over multiple times, kept a good cash flow, extracted profit from the process and made more money off the fast nickel than the slow dime.

 

I'd rather spend $20 and sell for $30 five times than spend $20 and sell for $50 once.

There are many shop owners unable to execute either strategy successfully.

 

In the immortal words of Homer Simpson: "It's funny because it's true."

[Ted Knight]

There is a greater concern that I think that Mark is getting at. By dealers maintaining large (and I do mean large) inventories of relatively scarce goods at artificial prices, a bubble is created not unlike any of the other bubbles from the last 10 years.

 

Think about it as supply and demand. If Dealer 'x' maintains an inventory of multiple copies of a given comic that is scarce (especially in high grade) through pricing above current FMV (hence why it doesn't sell), then what happens if that dealer finds themselves upside down and in need of sales. They drop prices to FMV or lower and those books sell, increasing the supply of copies on the market, creating downward pressure on prices again.

 

The supposition out there that most dealers subscribe to is that the value of comics always goes up. Kind of like the housing market.

 

If any of the major dealers out there went out of business (through poor management or otherwise), the market would have to absorb that inventory somehow (typically at massively devalued prices). I personally like the huge selection that Metropolis has on their website but I wonder if they might end up with all the comics someday.

 

I don't mind market fluctuation, I buy comics because I love them, nothing rational about it really. But crashes make me nervous. Consider how many GA comic collectors out there that are reaching 70-80 years of age. There are massive collections of currently "hard to find" books that will come to market in the next 10 years. Typically, dealers would try to absorb these into inventory and sell off undercopies, driving prices down on mid to lower grades and propping up higher grades. Are there enough of us out there to replace those collectors? I don't know.

 

I hope not. I've got a long want list and limited resources.

 

A great post with lots of worthwhile discussion points. I used to attend 5-10 conventions per year, mostly in the North (Motorcity, Pittsburgh, NY, etc) and I don't recall seeing more than a handful of fellas in their 60s, let alone their 70s. The majority of the folks collecting GA books were (are?) baby boomers.

 

The big question here is whether or not the children of boomers will be able to absorb their books once they decide to cash in. I'm certain all of the quality high grade/key titles will be absorbed with ease, but there's a lot of mid and low grade stuff out there from 2nd tier and 3rd tier titles that will have difficulty finding new owners.

 

I agree with you completely. However, the GA collections that I'm referring to were accumulated 20-30 years ago, when the hobby was much younger and more affordable. Those people don't visit conventions for the most part anymore.

 

It's good to hear some of the feedback about younger buyers but I still think that dealers holding books in inventory for long periods of time, collectively represents a bubble in supply for vintage comics. Heritage routinely buys books that don't auction for an " acceptably high price" and relists until eventually they give up and let them go for whatever price they sell for. Consider how many copies of Amazing Fantasy 15 for sale at this minute across the country. All waiting for someone to break down and pay the asking price.

[cpannell]

If they don't need money, why schlep boxes across the country to go to shows? Why even be in the comic business?

 

The only advantage I can assume is probably some fiscal thing where the inflated value of their inventory is a tax-deductible at the end of the year or something, in which case I could see why NOT selling is the way to go...

 

 

Are you just making this stuff up as you type? Obviously you know nothing about the secret world of comic dealers, the big round table at Comic Con, the special signs which enable you to great "dealer" discounts, nor the comraderie one gets from being in The Brotherhood or The Guild.

No one schelps boxes all over the country. The big dealers maintain show stocks in the spare bedrooms of their various weekend homes. It's a social circuit. Summers in San Diego, a jaunt to New York in the fall, Chi-town in the Spring.

 

The funniest post in days on these boards!

 

 

[cpannell]

I get the impression that some dealers want customers, other want suckers.

 

They are hoping for the person who is looking to fill his collection, only needs 1 more book, the dealer has it. Even though they are charging full guide or more, the collector will buy it just to finish off their collection.

 

This is very true. I think it's a flawed business model though. While that dealer waits to get a sucker at 100% of guide for something like a midgrade silver Marvel, there are other dealers who price it fairly (half to two thirds of guide), make a decent profit, and then roll that money into similar books. Unless we are talking about super high grades, truly rare gold or short-print modern indies, comic inventory is readily replaceable, especially at prices that allow for convention markups. By the time dealer A finds his sucker, dealer B has rolled his inventory over multiple times, kept a good cash flow, extracted profit from the process and made more money off the fast nickel than the slow dime.

 

I'd rather spend $20 and sell for $30 five times than spend $20 and sell for $50 once.

 

Well said Andy! Thanks everyone, for their insightful comments.

 

[tth2]

I'd rather spend $20 and sell for $30 five times than spend $20 and sell for $50 once.

Stop showin' off all of them newfangled bidness school ideas!

[VintageComics]

I get the impression that some dealers want customers, other want suckers.

 

They are hoping for the person who is looking to fill his collection, only needs 1 more book, the dealer has it. Even though they are charging full guide or more, the collector will buy it just to finish off their collection.

 

This is very true. I think it's a flawed business model though. While that dealer waits to get a sucker at 100% of guide for something like a midgrade silver Marvel, there are other dealers who price it fairly (half to two thirds of guide), make a decent profit, and then roll that money into similar books. Unless we are talking about super high grades, truly rare gold or short-print modern indies, comic inventory is readily replaceable, especially at prices that allow for convention markups. By the time dealer A finds his sucker, dealer B has rolled his inventory over multiple times, kept a good cash flow, extracted profit from the process and made more money off the fast nickel than the slow dime.

 

I'd rather spend $20 and sell for $30 five times than spend $20 and sell for $50 once.

 

There is more than one strategy at work with a smart business person.

 

Some dealers have to cater to many different types of markets (or clientele) and so the $20-30 buyer will be catered to differently than a $20,000 buyer.

 

Some books will need to sit for a while to find the right buyer.

 

Other books are a waste of time sitting on.

 

Different target markets, right?

[MrBedrock]

Different target markets, right?

Not if the goal is a sale. In both instances the target market is a buyer.

Treat 'em all the same and the guy with $30 in his pocket now will come back when he has $30,000 in his account later.

[G.A.tor]

Different target markets, right?

Not if the goal is a sale. In both instances the target market is a buyer.

Treat 'em all the same and the guy with $30 in his pocket now will come back when he has $30,000 in his account later.

[MrBedrock]

Different target markets, right?

Not if the goal is a sale. In both instances the target market is a buyer.

Treat 'em all the same and the guy with $30 in his pocket now will come back when he has $30,000 in his account later.

SOLD!!!

Thank you (thumbs u

[skypinkblu]

Different target markets, right?

Not if the goal is a sale. In both instances the target market is a buyer.

Treat 'em all the same and the guy with $30 in his pocket now will come back when he has $30,000 in his account later.

 

This is one of the reasons I like you so much;) You have common sense besides being nice.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Different target markets, right?

Not if the goal is a sale. In both instances the target market is a buyer.

Treat 'em all the same and the guy with $30 in his pocket now will come back when he has $30,000 in his account later.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you here, though you seem to think I am. All buyers are treated with the same respect and repeat buyers are made through good customer service.

 

I am saying though, that $20-30 books will generally move at a different rate of speed than a $20,000-$30,000 book.

[october]

Different target markets, right?

Not if the goal is a sale. In both instances the target market is a buyer.

Treat 'em all the same and the guy with $30 in his pocket now will come back when he has $30,000 in his account later.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you here, though you seem to think I am. All buyers are treated with the same respect and repeat buyers are made through good customer service.

 

I am saying though, that $20-30 books will generally move at a different rate of speed than a $20,000-$30,000 book.

 

I am not talking about price points, I am talking about turnover rate and competitive pricing. Sure, there will be exceptions for one of a kind, niche or $20,000, $30,000 super expensive books. The kind of books that do not make up 99.999% of dealer inventories. The vast, vast majority of comics can be repurchased in short order, even with ample room for markups. For these comics, sitting on them make zero sense, especially when the guy at the next stall likely has the same book.