Why so much attention to Marvels?

[Mushroom]

DC's............I already have copies of 7 of them, although my BB #34 is the only one in true HG.

 

As for AF #15.......who stars in it?

[blowout]

.....AF #15 should be compared to a tec #27 or at the least Bat #1.

 

Errr, weren't these GA books?

[tth2]

I would take the AF 15 in a heartbeat. Why? Say it with me...

 

Read the books and buy what you like.

Read the books and buy what you like.

Read the books and buy what you like.

 

I like Spidey and I don't know a damned thing about any of those other Brand Ecch heroes.

 

Here's a good forum question: Would you rather have a CGC 9.4...

 

Amazing Fantasy #15 (NM Guide is $48,000)

 

Or this DC group in CGC 9.4...?

 

Flash #105 ($7500)

B&B #28 (7500)

JLA #1 ($5300)

Green Lantern #1 ($4200)

Showcase #22 ($6400)

S G Lois Lane #1 ($5200)

B&B #34 ($3200)

Showcase #17 ($3200)

Showcase #30 ($1050)

Showcase #34 ($1800)

Mystery into Space #53 ($2400)

-----------------------------------------------

Guide for this group is $47,750

 

Which would you take? and why?

 

Timely

 

Timely, great question, and it really highlights the gulf in valuation between Marvels and DCs.

 

And football, I agree with your reasoning, and therefore would go the other way and happily take all the DCs in a heartbeat.

[Mushroom]

.....AF #15 should be compared to a tec #27 or at the least Bat #1.

 

Errr, weren't these GA books?

 

The thread wasn't about comparing Marvel SA's with DC SA's. If you want to compare price differentials there is no point comparing a first appearance of a franchise player with a first SA appearance of a franchise player i.e. AF #15 does not bear comparison to Showcase

[tth2]

I don't have any data on 8.0-8.5 books, because I primarily focus on NM books, so here's some publicly reported sales on CGC 9.2 or better DCs:

9.4 Showcase 34.........$12,000

9.4 GL 1......................$18,975

9.2 GL 1......................$13,225

9.4 GL 2........................$5060

9.4 JLA 5.......................$4830

9.4 JLA 9.......................$4300

There are not a lot of transactions because there's not all that many NM copies floating around and coming on the market. But add all of the above prices together and they still don't even add up to the price of the 9.4 X-Men 1 that just sold on Comiclink.

 

 

 

One of the reasons I stated 8.0-8.5 is because there is little data on most of the major DC keys at 9.4. Certainly you can find some data on some of the smaller keys. But your quote was stated as if your acually HAD 9.4 "BB and Showcase keys" to really compare with. If you look, there isn't much. But if you look at the information we DO have you can make some interesting comparisons. Showcase is clearly one of the most expensive titles in the Silver age

 

Showcase 4 8.5 $18,400.00  

Showcase 8 (8.0) - $4,830.00   8.0- Bethlehem pedigree $6,900.00  

Showcase 9 (9.2) - $13,225.00  

Showcase 10 (7.0) - $1,650.00

Showcase 12 (7.5) - $799.98

Showcase 13 (7.5) - $2,185.00

Showcase 14 (6.5) (4) $895.61 (8.5) - $3,910.00

Showcase 22 (8.5) - $5,175.00

Showcase 23 (7.0) - $735.00

 

That's one of the biggest problems with DC's. They just aren't out there in at 9.4 in any large readable numbers. Its not some mythical "price resistance when you get into five figures." But one of the problems is that they change hands less often and they are many fewer copies to make sales reports with. No doubt Marvels rule the silver age in total value, but I think the picture your painting is far to bleak.

 

Rip, I fail to see any evidence that refutes my contention that there is resistance when prices for silver DCs get into five figures. Look at the books you've listed--there are only 2 that have broken $10k. Look at the 9.4 books that I've listed above, and even the GL 1 (of which there is only one 9.4 copy in the census right now) was barely above $18k, and the Showcase 34 (first Atom) was at $12k. Both were "public" deals (GL 1 went on Heritage, Showcase 34 was on PGCMint and sat there for months after initially listing at $15k or so) so there was a real opportunity for buyers to snap these books up (and in the case of GL 1, to have driven it higher).

 

In contrast, several copies of JIM 83 in 9.0 (not rare in that grade) have changed hands for over $15k recently. The fact is that most of the people willing to spend more than $10k for a comic are either GA or Marvel collectors.

 

Off the top of my head, I can only think of a few silver DCs that already have exceeded or would have a legitimate shot at exceeding $20k in 9.4: Showcase 4, 8, 9 and 22, B&B 28, Flash 105, Adventure 247, JLA 1. That's it.

 

I take your point about DC scarcity possibly artificially inhibiting pricing. It would be an interesting dynamic: premiums would go down because of greater availability, but more transactions would drive Overstreet to increase prices in the Guide. But I doubt that's going to happen. I fully expect to see more copies come out of the woodwork over the next few years, but I don't think the HG silver DC census is ever going to look like the HG Marvel census.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am a DC collector through and through. But if I were buying with an eye towards investment, or if I were a risk-adverse collector who wanted some level of certainty that I could at least break even if I were forced to sell my books at some point, I would be in Marvel. It's like the difference between buying low-liquidity small cap stocks vs. big cap stocks.

[Mushroom]

DC books are not as much fueled by speculator dollars as Marvel. When the crash comes there will be more impact to Marvels.

[Rip]

Rip, I fail to see any evidence that refutes my contention that there is resistance when prices for silver DCs get into five figures.Look at the books you've listed--there are only 2 that have broken $10k. Look at the 9.4 books that I've listed above, and even the GL 1 (of which there is only one 9.4 copy in the census right now) was barely above $18k, and the Showcase 34 (first Atom) was at $12k. Both were "public" deals (GL 1 went on Heritage, Showcase 34 was on PGCMint and sat there for months after initially listing at $15k or so) so there was a real opportunity for buyers to snap these books up (and in the case of GL 1, to have driven it higher).

Well I explained one of the reasons (at least I thought I did) is because the books don't show up in higher grades, (I posted the top recorded sales prices.) If and when many of these copies show up, you will see prices certainly above 10K. (I'm sure you will see the Showcase 19 9.6 go for more than 10K) Your just looking at the dollar amount not the comparative 8.0 grades with 9.4 multiples in mind. You acting as if DC collectors won't pay 10K for a key book. Its many times hard to compare when the highest copy with a recorded sale is a (7.0 $1,380.00) like Lois Lane 1.

In contrast, several copies of JIM 83 in 9.0 (not rare in that grade) have changed hands for over $15k recently. The fact is that most of the people willing to spend more than $10k for a comic are either GA or Marvel collectors.

I think people aren't willing to spend 10K+ for most DC silver age keys in 7.5-8.5.

 

 

Off the top of my head, I can only think of a few silver DCs that already have exceeded or would have a legitimate shot at exceeding $20k in 9.4: Showcase 4, 8, 9 and 22, B&B 28, Flash 105, Adventure 247, JLA 1. That's it.

You could add Showcase 13 and 14 a Green Lantern 1 could also make it.

 

I take your point about DC scarcity possibly artificially inhibiting pricing. It would be an interesting dynamic: premiums would go down because of greater availability, but more transactions would drive Overstreet to increase prices in the Guide. But I doubt that's going to happen. I fully expect to see more copies come out of the woodwork over the next few years, but I don't think the HG silver DC census is ever going to look like the HG Marvel census.

Artificially inhibiting?? That really wasn't my point, but I do expect to see more come out of the census, of cource nothing like Marvel.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am a DC collector through and through. But if I were buying with an eye towards investment, or if I were a risk-adverse collector who wanted some level of certainty that I could at least break even if I were forced to sell my books at some point, I would be in Marvel. It's like the difference between buying low-liquidity small cap stocks vs. big cap stocks.

I agree. With Marvel, investors have a great comfort zone with higher volume sales to research which makes it easier to determine the outcome. You have a better ping pong effect,

not to mention the movie impact.

[blowout]

The thread wasn't about comparing Marvel SA's with DC SA's. If you want to compare price differentials there is no point comparing a first appearance of a franchise player with a first SA appearance of a franchise player i.e. AF #15 does not bear comparison to Showcase

 

Gotcha, and thats a fair point.

[acesilver]

Here's a good forum question: Would you rather have a CGC 9.4...

 

Amazing Fantasy #15 (NM Guide is $48,000)

 

Or this DC group in CGC 9.4...?

 

Flash #105 ($7500)

B&B #28 (7500)

JLA #1 ($5300)

Green Lantern #1 ($4200)

Showcase #22 ($6400)

S G Lois Lane #1 ($5200)

B&B #34 ($3200)

Showcase #17 ($3200)

Showcase #30 ($1050)

Showcase #34 ($1800)

Mystery into Space #53 ($2400)

-----------------------------------------------

Guide for this group is $47,750

 

Which would you take? and why?

 

Timely

 

Great question Timely. I'd go with the DC group. Why? Because as much as I enjoyed Spidey I'm not fond of AF 15. Even though it is his first appearance. I'd prefer Spidey 1 (cover ). The DC group would give me more characters that I also enjoyed, Flash, GL, JLA, Adam Strange, etc.

 

And based on the recent Heritage results the DC "portfolio" wouldn't do to bad against the solo AF.

[Rip]

And based on the recent Heritage results the DC "portfolio" wouldn't do to bad against the solo AF.

Understatement of the year

[tth2]

as much as I enjoyed Spidey I'm not fond of AF 15. Even though it is his first appearance. I'd prefer Spidey 1 (cover ).

 

Ace, I really don't see eye to eye with you on this one. AF 15 has one of the really great all-time Marvel covers, whereas ASM 1 has one of my least favorite Marvel covers.

[Silver Surfer]

Personally I like some of the characters that DC has, Green Lantern, Flash, etc but I find many of them to be just plain silly and unappealing. Many of the covers and story lines in the SA era that I remember reading were so lame that it was painfull. As noted in many Stan Lee biographies he added a human dimension to the characters that just draws the readers in. Is there any way Marvel can approach DC and buy the rights to the Green Lantern character.

[joe_collector]

Here's a good forum question: Would you rather have a CGC 9.4...

 

Amazing Fantasy #15 (NM Guide is $48,000)

 

Or this DC group in CGC 9.4...?

 

Does anyone have actual GPA data for these comics in CGC 9.4? Otherwise, using the (cough) Guide Values kinda makes any comparison a real trip to fantasyland.

[burntboy]

Here's a good forum question: Would you rather have a CGC 9.4...

 

Amazing Fantasy #15 (NM Guide is $48,000)

 

Or this DC group in CGC 9.4...?

 

Does anyone have actual GPA data for these comics in CGC 9.4? Otherwise, using the (cough) Guide Values kinda makes any comparison a real trip to fantasyland.

 

well i've got every book on the entire list except lois lane #1 (even i wouldn't stoop that low......) and i'd take the group of DC's for sure.

 

i think the accumulative value of them in 9.4 would exceed the AF#15 as it seems to me that you're apt to get a higher multiple of guide when the book isn't selling for $100K+.

 

money aside, i'd rather have a dozen beauties than one...........

[Rip]

I think alot of people here have little idea what they're talking about when it comes to DC

 

 

So here are the top grade sales for the DC books

 

Flash #105 (9.2) - $29,900.00

B&B #28 (9.4) - $60,375.00

JLA #1 (9.2) - $27,600.00

Green Lantern #1 (9.4) - $18,975.00

Showcase #22 (8.5) - $5,175.00

S G Lois Lane #1 (6.5) - $1,437.50 (7.0) - $1,380.00

B&B #34 (8.5) - $1,552.50

Showcase #17 (6.0) - $690.00  (6.5) - $610.00

Showcase #30 (9.0) - $681.84

Showcase #34 (9.0) - $2,990.00

Mystery into Space #53 (7.5) - $948.75

[Timely]

A 9.4 B&B #34 sold in Manning years ago for $9200 I believe.

 

Timely

[Rip]

The Slabodian 9.4 went for 10K a couple years ago, but theres a 9.4 copy on Comiclink at 13K with no bids Its interesting to see what books go for 10K+ these days on the DC side. For example at WW105 sold not too long ago for 10K.

[acesilver]

money aside, i'd rather have a dozen beauties than one...........

 

Speaking of beauties, who's the avatar! And where can I see a larger image!

[acesilver]

as much as I enjoyed Spidey I'm not fond of AF 15. Even though it is his first appearance. I'd prefer Spidey 1 (cover ).

 

Ace, I really don't see eye to eye with you on this one. AF 15 has one of the really great all-time Marvel covers, whereas ASM 1 has one of my least favorite Marvel covers.

 

The AF 15 presents a strong image. Spidey is front and center in the foreground. And it is distintive. I'll grant you that. But the background colors take away from its eye appeal to me.

 

For the Spidey 1 you had the intrigue of him being trapped. You had the FF and better color balance IMO.

 

Both stories were good. But since the first thing we see is a cover, make mine Spidey 1!

[Aman619]

there was also a 9.6 Showcase 19 in this last Heritage auction that went for 10K plus (didnt see the final but it was that much after internet bidding ended)