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Pop Thought Editorial On CGC, Good Or Bad?

Started by TheBrockley,

56 posts in this topic

TheBrockley

TheBrockley

Posted
Posted

Over on www.popthought.com one of the interesting columnist, Jeremy Clifft posted, what I think is a great article on the service that is CGC, it can be found here

 

http://www.popthought.com/display_column.asp?DAID=199

 

 

as someone who is on the fence about the whole CGC service, I found this to be a very good piece, but I would like to know what are the opinons on the article, from those who use the service the most. Or from Mr Borock himself. Is it ture to form? do you agree with Mr. Clyffts views? disagree?

 

 

Thanks

Shawn

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Timely

Timely

Posted
Posted

I disagree on a few points. People keep saying there is a CGC premium, that's BS. When you buy a raw book you are actually getting a discount! You pay less for a raw book because the risk is higher, not the other way around.

 

Long before CGC I was paying 2-3 times guide for true NM 9.4 copies from reputable dealers who were trustworthy. Many CGC 9.4 copies trade at 2-3 Times guide now. As the market stands now (in resoect to multiples) I am getting the same book in the same grade WITH the added CGC bonus for FREE!

 

So please tell me how I am paying a CGC premium!?! makepoint.gif

 

Timely

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MikeS

MikeS

Posted
Posted

Did Chuck really say "In one case, I wanted to buy an unslabbed copy of FANTASTIC FOUR #1 in NM (9.4?), but couldn't afford it at the $2,000 asking price. The dealer apologized for the high asking price, but explained that he thought he could get at least $2,500 if he had the book slabbed."

 

Only $2,000????? WTF?? I guess that's the MH definition of NM?

 

As far as the article goes - same old comics are meant to be read not slabbed arguement. 893blahblah.gif893blahblah.gif893blahblah.gif

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

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Posted

"Collectors should remember that the process of certification is designed primarily as a tool for buying and selling that establishes standards in grading consistency for the hobby. Over the years, we believe more collectors will be content to leave a comic in its holder for its protection, and to enhance its liquidity if they decide to sell."

 

where is this statement on CGC's website?

 

Shawn, my opinion is that it is yet another rant against CGC and its effect on the market under the guise of what a "true" collector would should do,believe, buy. The article make several key points based on unproven and weak assumptions and suppositions in turn undermining the credibility of the article and the author. honestly, it just makes him out to be someone who seems to have an anti-CGc agenda, whose reasons can probably fit into the more common ones shared by the CGc haters rather than a genuine concern for the state of the hobby.

 

anyone of us "cgc apologists" here can take this article and counter it point by point, by why go thru the exercise when we have already at some point during our time here on the boards. Feel free to search the past threads here addressing the importance of CGc's presence in the hobby and the ABSOLUTE need for third party grading and an established industry standard that is put into effect rather than allowed to be interpreted and streched to the benefit of the unscrupulous in the hobby.

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FFB

FFB

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Posted

Hey Timely,

 

I agree with you about GA and even perhaps silver age keys, but when people are paying $39 for a brand new comic in CGC 9.8, they're paying a premium for the CGC label. So the premium does exist, maybe just not across the board.

 

I disagree on a few points. People keep saying there is a CGC premium, that's BS. When you buy a raw book you are actually getting a discount! You pay less for a raw book because the risk is higher, not the other way around.

 

Long before CGC I was paying 2-3 times guide for true NM 9.4 copies from reputable dealers who were trustworthy. Many CGC 9.4 copies trade at 2-3 Times guide now. As the market stands now (in resoect to multiples) I am getting the same book in the same grade WITH the added CGC bonus for FREE!

 

So please tell me how I am paying a CGC premium!?! makepoint.gif

 

Timely

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted

This article goes back to a real market dilemma, and one that does not bode well for the hobby as a whole.

 

To paraphrase Robert Overstreet, the primary sign of a imminent market downturn is when people start buying comics, and then storing them away unread.

 

This used to refer to speculators buying a case of X book, hoping to resell them at a profit, but it can also apply to the CGC world. Without enjoyment of the internal contents, buyers are destined to have a short-term love affair with the hobby, which will leave it in shambles over the long-term.

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Mr. Zipper

Mr. Zipper

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Posted
So please tell me how I am paying a CGC premium!?! makepoint.gif

 

I guess you haven't seen any of the CGC ads, where a NM+ raw sells for $1 and the CGC 9.9 equivalent goes for $500. tonofbricks.gif

 

Those ads have raised my eyebrows as well. Nowhere does it even indicate that the raw copy may be misgraded or restored... just simply that a slabbed book gets the seller a lot more money. So, the ad is completely directed at sellers and basically the message buyers get is, "Hold onto your wallet, it's going to be a rough ride."

 

Reminds me of the real estate ads which brag about how XYZ Real Estate Company can get you the most money for your house. As a buyer, why in heaven would I want to look at houses listed by that company?!? insane.gif893frustrated.gif

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sfilosa

sfilosa

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Posted

To paraphrase Robert Overstreet, the primary sign of a imminent market downturn is when people start buying comics, and then storing them away unread.

 

 

There is really no logic in that statement.

 

Just because the main reason to buy comics is to read them, does not mean there can not be other reasons to collect comics (i.e. the joy of collecting).

 

Do coin collectors buy rare coins to SPEND. Of course not.

 

 

Regarding CGC:

 

Anyone who has spent more than $50 on a comic book, knows the value added service that CGC provides.

 

While I agree with Timely to a certain degree that premiums have always been paid for high-grade books, there clearly is a CGC Premium for books in 9.4 or above.

 

All you need to do is look at price listings from dealers prior to CGC (get an old CBM). NM- books might be listed at 80% of the same price as a NM. Now, the spread is double (or more). And most dealers wouldn't have doubled the price of a book that they thought was NM+ instead of just NM. Yet, 9.6's seem to go for double 9.4's (depending on the book of course).

 

The Label 9.4 (or better) has created a Premium.

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted
There is really no logic in that statement.

 

Just because the main reason to buy comics is to read them, does not mean there can not be other reasons to collect comics (i.e. the joy of collecting).

 

Do coin collectors buy rare coins to SPEND. Of course not.

 

27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif

 

Man, you're really missing the boat, aren't you? It's not about reading, but about being able to enjoy and view 100% of the collectible while in its slab.

 

Take a slabbed sportscard and you can still read the player's stats and in a slabbed coin, the front/back and edges are viewable. Investors may not make full use of these nostalgic properties, but at least collectors are ABLE TO. That's the main difference, as both coins and sportscards can cater to both markets, while CGC comics obviously cannot.

 

If you can read a letter's page or bullpen bulletins using a slabbed comic, then my hat's off to you.

 

And please don't get into the tired "reader copy" argument, as that has absolutely nothing to do with comparing slabbed comic, coins and cards.

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burntboy

burntboy

Posted
Posted
I disagree on a few points. People keep saying there is a CGC premium, that's BS. When you buy a raw book you are actually getting a discount! You pay less for a raw book because the risk is higher, not the other way around.

 

Long before CGC I was paying 2-3 times guide for true NM 9.4 copies from reputable dealers who were trustworthy. Many CGC 9.4 copies trade at 2-3 Times guide now. As the market stands now (in resoect to multiples) I am getting the same book in the same grade WITH the added CGC bonus for FREE!

 

So please tell me how I am paying a CGC premium!?! makepoint.gif

 

Timely

 

quite frankly, i hadn't thought of the price differential in these terms before - a very interesting take on the phenomena...........

 

as are the numerous posts which follow yours.

 

the referenced article is like reading a story in People magazine. just enough info to titillate, but sorely lacking in depth. the reference to the FF#1 in NM as being unaffordable to C.R. (due to it's $2000 price - what was Jay's up to before it was pulled, $90K+?) is laffable and for me discredits the story overall.

 

i personally find the analogy made further on this thread to coins and cards a basically sound one.

 

AND this article doesn't breathe a word about restoration in general or the check performed as part of the encapsulation process, which for some is the main reason that they use CGC.

 

i sent a letter to Comiclink today asking about their "professional" review of the unslabbed comics that they sell. the reality seems to be that you're only slightly better off than buying unslabbed on e-bay. you don't know who the seller is and there is no resto guarantee and you have about 12 days to physically get the comic back to them if you want a refund. the only way you can be confident (99&44/100%) with what you're getting is if it's been Slabbed.

 

so ultimately to me, one's feelings on the topic seem to be connected to one's personal position - are you a hobbyist/investor, are you a buyer/seller, are you a pro/amateur, do you restore comics for a living/loathe restoration, are you a dabbler/purist, etc..........

 

i guess that i pretty much "drank the kool aid"........... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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blowout

blowout

Posted
Posted

You can't just enjoy the cover artwork? Guess those original art collectors are gonna be burnt out soon..

 

But why are most of those collectors buying original art? Do you think it might be because they read the comics and have a nostalgic attachment to the piece? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Posted

Count the number of pages of a PAGE of original art, and now count the number of pages in a comic book. Look over every inch of the two items, remembering exactly what artwork and text you see.

 

Now slap them both into plastic slabs and look them over again. Anything missing? Anything you can no longer view? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Even to a layman, the difference should be readily apparent.

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