Silver Age Hierarchy - 22nd to 24th (corrected)

[Hepcat]

This poll has swiftly fallen into a vote of Marvel favorites and has no true meaning as to which are the most important books of the silver age. No matter what you are a fan of you have to lay aside your fanboy desires and pick the most important books.

 

For Tales to Astonish 27 to still be on the list while Brave & the Bold 34 is not is just silly. Tales to Astonish 27 wasn't even written as an intro and Antman never had his own title in the Silver Age.

 

 

[conditionfreak]

If your screen name is something like, "antman", "Showcase22Rules" or "FlashForever". You are probably not unbiased.

 

If on the other hand, your screen name is something like, "greg" or "LloydBratz". Then I count you more in the unbiased group.

[RockMyAmadeus]

This poll has swiftly fallen into a vote of Marvel favorites and has no true meaning as to which are the most important books of the silver age. No matter what you are a fan of you have to lay aside your fanboy desires and pick the most important books.

 

Adv. 247 is insanely important to the silver age. It would be like saying Captain Marvel and Human Torch were not important to the golden age. Overall, it looks like the voting plans of all involved are to vote every DC book off except SC4 and SC22 before going after the Marvel titles.

 

Pretty much.

[ComicConnoisseur]

See we got for first appearances

Ant-man

Sgt.Fury

Supergirl

Mirror Master

Martian Manhunter

three of these five will go.

[Aman619]

this was easier. many arguable books already gone, leaving a few low hangers...

 

ADV 247

TEC 225

FLASH 105

 

next up

ANT-MAN and SUPERGIRL, or whoever survived my picks above

 

Oh for heavens sake. 247 is much more important to the hobby than ant-man, supergril, the SA subby and many others on the board.

 

Why don't we just vote off FF1, AF 15, DD 1 etc right now? Preposterous I know, but so is making Adv 247 not even a top 20 SA book

 

really guys?

 

are we voting TODAYS eyes? or with 30 year old goggles?

 

The Legion are just as minor as all the other characters being left behind.. I see that you guys love them, but its a shame that so many of you will skew the voting in their favor.

 

But majority rules. Lets see where they end up.

 

That's kind of like saying Babe Ruth isn't important in the history of baseball because he played 70+ years ago.

 

The Legion may have fallen out of favor the last few years, but come on...Overstreet documented something like their first seventeen appearances! They were a major force in the hobby for decades. So if we are voting on importance shouldn't length of impact be somewhat of a measure? Some of the other heroes left on the list were never really powerhouses in the hobby. Daredevil, as much as I love that character, only had the Miller years for the most part. Small blip on the last half century + of comic history

 

Buck Rogers was big time too. and the Shadow etc etc. It all comes down to what are we voting on here. IMO the Legion is toast today so their hegemony 30-40 years ago in Overstreet etc and in fandom is over. Same argument we apply to Tec 225 applies to the Legion. to me anyway.

[Aman619]

Daredevil has been a big a part of Marvel as Legion has been to DC. He even got a movie made. and has been continually in print in his OWN book for all this time. Legion? a half a book even when they were at their height.

 

Its ok to love them little teenagers. but I dont agree with their importance today in terms of this poll. If time cant affect the rankings, up and down, lets just stay with what Overstreet says.

[mysterio]

Daredevil has been a big a part of Marvel as Legion has been to DC. He even got a movie made.

 

The Marvel universe would have been just fine without DD. The DC universe would not be the same without the Legion. Their impacts on their respective company's outputs are not proportional. I also don't see what having a movie or not having a movie means for a book's position the history of the Silver Age, beyond some producers thinking that there may be some money to be made. Nobody has brought up the very lackluster FF movies as an argument to keep FF #1 in the running.

 

If time cant affect the rankings, up and down, lets just stay with what Overstreet says.

 

I don't think that anyone has said that time can't affect the rankings. The point of this poll (as I see it) is to see what current collectors think of these books. The problem lies in fans of one company or another completely ignoring (or being ignorant of) the significance of many of these books and voting in an insufficiently thoughtful manner.

[conditionfreak]

At least none of the DC lovers are demanding the first appearance of the Teen Titans be included in the poll. (Brave and Bold 54)

 

 

Seems strange that the first appearance of (let's say) Superbaby (Superman as a child), is not the first appearance of Superman.

[ciorac]

this was easier. many arguable books already gone, leaving a few low hangers...

 

ADV 247

TEC 225

FLASH 105

 

next up

ANT-MAN and SUPERGIRL, or whoever survived my picks above

 

Oh for heavens sake. 247 is much more important to the hobby than ant-man, supergril, the SA subby and many others on the board.

 

Why don't we just vote off FF1, AF 15, DD 1 etc right now? Preposterous I know, but so is making Adv 247 not even a top 20 SA book

 

really guys?

 

are we voting TODAYS eyes? or with 30 year old goggles?

 

The Legion are just as minor as all the other characters being left behind.. I see that you guys love them, but its a shame that so many of you will skew the voting in their favor.

 

But majority rules. Lets see where they end up.

 

That's kind of like saying Babe Ruth isn't important in the history of baseball because he played 70+ years ago.

 

The Legion may have fallen out of favor the last few years, but come on...Overstreet documented something like their first seventeen appearances! They were a major force in the hobby for decades. So if we are voting on importance shouldn't length of impact be somewhat of a measure? Some of the other heroes left on the list were never really powerhouses in the hobby. Daredevil, as much as I love that character, only had the Miller years for the most part. Small blip on the last half century + of comic history

 

Buck Rogers was big time too. and the Shadow etc etc. It all comes down to what are we voting on here. IMO the Legion is toast today so their hegemony 30-40 years ago in Overstreet etc and in fandom is over. Same argument we apply to Tec 225 applies to the Legion. to me anyway.

 

I'm trying hard to follow your logic, I really am. I'm as much a marvel SA zombie as I am a DC GA zombie. But I love and appreciate the entire spectrum of the hobby, and actively collect examples from most publishers and eras.

 

So using your logic, All-Star #3, the first superhero team, wouldn't crack your top GA book list either, because it isn't in favor with collectors right now? So that removes and nullifies its historical importance? Balderdash.

 

Current market indicators should hold little bearing on this discussion. Buck Rogers may have been a poplular character at various points and his appearances have enjoyed some measure of success in terms of selling prices over the years, but you would be hard pressed to find many who would rank Famous Funnies #3 as a particularly historic book in the annals of comicdom. So at least use an example to make your argument that doesn't strain the sensibilities quite so much. Same story for the Shadow.

[Aman619]

Current market indicators should hold little bearing on this discussion.

 

should or shouldnt, they DO for some, and DONT for others, thats why these polls dont really tell us what they CANT tell us... because we are all not on the same page on what we are voting for.

 

It would be better to have a poll where the pollster defined IMPORTANCE up front in the terms HE wants the voting to go: current value, past glory, future relevance???

 

"HEIRARCHY" is measured in too many ways and leads to these discussions of relative worth. How long does a book that fading in importance hang around?

 

bottom line, its doesnt matter.

and we all know the top five in advance anyway.

 

for the record I still think 247 is an "important book" by virtue of its history AS an important book. Thats all it has left for itself IMO. Many of the other books voted off at this point are similarly IMPORTANCE-challenged. And all will be gone soon.

 

Until the next poll.

 

 

and dont knock Buck Rogers. Id rather have HIS first appearance than ADV247. oh wait, I already DO have one!

[Aman619]

Daredevil has been a big a part of Marvel as Legion has been to DC. He even got a movie made.

 

The Marvel universe would have been just fine without DD. The DC universe would not be the same without the Legion. Their impacts on their respective company's outputs are not proportional. I also don't see what having a movie or not having a movie means for a book's position the history of the Silver Age, beyond some producers thinking that there may be some money to be made. Nobody has brought up the very lackluster FF movies as an argument to keep FF #1 in the running.

 

If time cant affect the rankings, up and down, lets just stay with what Overstreet says.

 

I don't think that anyone has said that time can't affect the rankings. The point of this poll (as I see it) is to see what current collectors think of these books. The problem lies in fans of one company or another completely ignoring (or being ignorant of) the significance of many of these books and voting in an insufficiently thoughtful manner.

 

 

so wait, those who vote differently are wrong? or are you just saying some here are messing with the results for fun? like voting off all DCs cause theyre Marvel fans for instance.

[mysterio]

Daredevil has been a big a part of Marvel as Legion has been to DC. He even got a movie made.

 

The Marvel universe would have been just fine without DD. The DC universe would not be the same without the Legion. Their impacts on their respective company's outputs are not proportional. I also don't see what having a movie or not having a movie means for a book's position the history of the Silver Age, beyond some producers thinking that there may be some money to be made. Nobody has brought up the very lackluster FF movies as an argument to keep FF #1 in the running.

 

If time cant affect the rankings, up and down, lets just stay with what Overstreet says.

 

I don't think that anyone has said that time can't affect the rankings. The point of this poll (as I see it) is to see what current collectors think of these books. The problem lies in fans of one company or another completely ignoring (or being ignorant of) the significance of many of these books and voting in an insufficiently thoughtful manner.

 

 

so wait, those who vote differently are wrong? or are you just saying some here are messing with the results for fun? like voting off all DCs cause theyre Marvel fans for instance.

 

There are people who have stated that they are voting off DC or Marvel books explicitly. There are also people who are die-hard collectors of one company or the other and thus don't appreciate the significance of certain key issues from the company that they don't collect. Flash #123 and Adventure #247 would fall into that category as Marvel collectors could give a rat's behind about them. There are lots of Marvel books that should get voted out before either of those two DC books, but because many collectors won't understand or appreciate their significance they will get left in the dust.

 

The point of this poll from the beginning (as I understood it) was to get to a hierarchy of important books from the Silver Age. Hence the instructions to vote off the least important books in each round. Important does not mean cool, or valuable, or the flavor of the month. Important (to me, in this context) meant books that had the greatest impact on the direction of the Silver Age of comics. Books that influenced the history of comics during that period of time. So yes, anyone voting for Flash #123 in the earlier round or Adventure #247 in this round is either making that vote out of spite or ignorance, because there is no way that you put either of those books in the bottom 22 books (or lower) of the Silver Age if you understand the history of that era in comics.

[Aman619]

still, "importance" is very subjective. I think Flash 123 is VERY important. But Legion less so. as for Marvel guys having no clue for DCs? well, they are a big part of the fan base, so I guess we have to include their votes. The only way to eliminate the bias would be to have a totally DC-centric top 25 - no Marvels allowed - - and see what happens.

 

and lets face it... the Silver Age was mainly Marvels Age. In its simplest form, they created new characters and a new universe from scratch while DC re-introduced theirs. I think that has led to a greater excitement for Marvel fans ..

[ComicConnoisseur]

Current market indicators should hold little bearing on this discussion.

 

should or shouldnt, they DO for some, and DONT for others, thats why these polls dont really tell us what they CANT tell us... because we are all not on the same page on what we are voting for.

 

It would be better to have a poll where the pollster defined IMPORTANCE up front in the terms HE wants the voting to go: current value, past glory, future relevance???

 

"HEIRARCHY" is measured in too many ways and leads to these discussions of relative worth. How long does a book that fading in importance hang around?

 

bottom line, its doesnt matter.

and we all know the top five in advance anyway.

 

for the record I still think 247 is an "important book" by virtue of its history AS an important book. Thats all it has left for itself IMO. Many of the other books voted off at this point are similarly IMPORTANCE-challenged. And all will be gone soon.

 

Until the next poll.

 

 

and dont knock Buck Rogers. Id rather have HIS first appearance than ADV247. oh wait, I already DO have one!

Buck Rogers is awesome! I think future generations will better appreciate him,Lone Ranger,Tarzan,Flash Gordon and the Shadow someday, what they need is one big movie and to be pimped better, what Stan Lee was very good at was pimping his books better then anyone in the history of comics and that`s why we all have that Not Brand Echh mentality to other non-Marvel comics. Stan Lee knew how to sell the image that Marvel was the best and that all other companies were Brand Echh!

[mysterio]

still, "importance" is very subjective. I think Flash 123 is VERY important. But Legion less so. as for Marvel guys having no clue for DCs? well, they are a big part of the fan base, so I guess we have to include their votes. The only way to eliminate the bias would be to have a totally DC-centric top 25 - no Marvels allowed - - and see what happens.

 

and lets face it... the Silver Age was mainly Marvels Age. In its simplest form, they created new characters and a new universe from scratch while DC re-introduced theirs. I think that has led to a greater excitement for Marvel fans ..

 

I totally agree that Marvel was the much more innovative company during the SA, no doubt about it. I also agree that it might make more sense in some respects to have separate Marvel and DC polls, as this might lead to a clearer assessment of importance for issues of each company. In a lot of ways trying to decide importance between books like Adventure #247 and X-Men #1 is totally subjective and open to personal preference. If you get more Marvel fans (which I think is obvious) then the DC books are going to suffer in a subjective poll where fandom is concerned.

[Flash105]

still, "importance" is very subjective. I think Flash 123 is VERY important. But Legion less so. as for Marvel guys having no clue for DCs? well, they are a big part of the fan base, so I guess we have to include their votes. The only way to eliminate the bias would be to have a totally DC-centric top 25 - no Marvels allowed - - and see what happens.

 

and lets face it... the Silver Age was mainly Marvels Age. In its simplest form, they created new characters and a new universe from scratch while DC re-introduced theirs. I think that has led to a greater excitement for Marvel fans ..

 

I would disagree with that. The silver age belonged to DC from 1956-1968. Marvel did not overtake DC i sales until late into the 60s. The Marvel age was bronze age. Spidey, X-Men and the like almost drove DC into the ground in the 70s.

[Hepcat]

I would disagree with that. The silver age belonged to DC from 1956-1968. Marvel did not overtake DC i sales until late into the 60s.

 

I'd say the Silver Age was DC's up until sometime in 1965. By then the inroads of Marvel were really starting to show. DC then made the monumental gaffe in 1966 of retooling its entire line to mimic the Batman TV program. In the interests of short term sales, DC thus undermined the credibility of its superhero entire line with its core fan base.

 

 

[Aman619]

thats just talking sales results. Yes Marvbel took a few years to catch up and outsell Marvel.

 

But, gee, isnt that th esame thing as saying that Marvels -- since they appeared -- were GROWING in importance abnd readers while DCS - - who started the 60s as the leader - - TANKED in popularity, or, at least began the slide of losing readers to Marvel?

 

Im a DC fan, but IMO no question Marvel had their mojo (and the momentum) almost from day one.

[Bomber-Bob]

Im a DC fan, but IMO no question Marvel had their mojo (and the momentum) almost from day one.

 

From my personal experience of having been there in the early 60's I would disagree with your statement. It didn't happen for Marvel from Day 1. Hulk only lasted 6 issues. I didn't know anyone at the time that bought the title or cared.

I know on the limited budget of a kid I was not going to switch my favorite DC titles like Justice League for the Fantastic Four. I really think Spider-Man turned the tide. ASM 1 was a crossover and got me interested in FF. Soon I was buying ASM, JIM, and FF regularly but it did not happen from Day 1. More like Day 2 !

[Aman619]

ok ok, a little hyperbole crept in. yes I was there too, and never even heard of or noticed Marvel comics until FF25.

 

but what I meant was that those who were hip to Marvel were growing in numbers almost immediately. hows that? Eventually ALL of us who were buying and reading comics were hip to Marvel, and even those of us who still like Weisingers 7 page stories and clean cut DC heroes could see the excitement building "over there" a few blocks north and over from 575 Lexington Ave. (Marvel was on Madison and 56th st,) (DC on Lex and 53rd)