Where would you rate Micheline/McFarlane ASM Run...

[Logan510]

Erik Larsen is a dink who can't keep his stupid politics out of his art.

 

That makes him LAME.

 

It's fair to think that he's lame but that doesn't make him a bad artist.

 

Lebron James is beyond 'dink' level but he's an amazing basketball player.

 

You know what I'm saying here, and I can tell that you really do not like Larsen.

 

 

Larsen is a bad artist because he doesn't draw well. An artist I admire once told me that " taste in art is subjective...and then there's just ".

 

As for the topic at hand...McFarlane's art drove me to not only stop buying / reading Amazing Spider-Man, but also the Incredible Hulk

[Boboset]

Erik Larsen is a dink who can't keep his stupid politics out of his art.

 

That makes him LAME.

 

It's fair to think that he's lame but that doesn't make him a bad artist.

 

Lebron James is beyond 'dink' level but he's an amazing basketball player.

 

You know what I'm saying here, and I can tell that you really do not like Larsen.

 

 

Larsen as a person, or Larsen as an artist?

 

I'm talking about his artistic merits, not who he is as a person. I feel the two can be separated.

 

Do you like his work? You can think that he's a dink AND a bad artist.

[Ken Aldred]

The M+M run was a fun read. McFarlane had plenty of technical shortcomings, but the energy and dynamics of the art led to him becoming a star.

Back in the late 80s, I had to deal with an extremely snobbish response from a comic book shop employee while I was enthusing about Todd McFarlane. This comment went something along the lines of... 'I know you like great artists such as Adams, Toth, Frazetta, and so I'm very, very surprised that you read that drivel!'

 

In response, I just shrugged and thought to myself, 'well, I find his books entertaining and enjoyable and, think what you will, that's all I really need to care about when I'm buying a comic to read - here, or maybe somewhere else now?'

[Conan_Aficionado]

McMarvel , I love the Mic-Mc

[Flash105]

Whether it was McFarlane or the that was going on with X-Men, this was the period when Spidey reclaimed the crown from the mutants.

[Prince Namor]

The M+M run was a fun read. McFarlane had plenty of technical shortcomings, but the energy and dynamics of the art led to him becoming a star.

Back in the late 80s, I had to deal with an extremely snobbish response from a comic book shop employee while I was enthusing about Todd McFarlane. This comment went something along the lines of... 'I know you like great artists such as Adams, Toth, Frazetta, and so I'm very, very surprised that you read that drivel!'

 

In response, I just shrugged and thought to myself, 'well, I find his books entertaining and enjoyable and, think what you will, that's all I really need to care about when I'm buying a comic to read - here, or maybe somewhere else now?'

Isn't that sadly amazing, Paul? I would think owners would be horrified to know how much that kind of talk goes on from their employees. It's so destructive to good customer relations and SALES.

The shop I went to all through college was run by a guy who was the MASTER at the exact opposite of that. Customers checking out would say, "Man, that Rob Liefeld is great!" And he would just humbly reply, "Yeah, well he has a following".

 

 

 

[sakaridis]

Whether it was McFarlane or the that was going on with X-Men, this was the period when Spidey reclaimed the crown from the mutants.

If you're talking about sales, I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

 

If, on the other hand, you're talking about quality of story and art, that's another discussion.

[Prince Namor]

I used to be somewhat of a Larsen fan, but I too got turned off by his ENDLESS rants in the back of Savage Dragon. Geez, it'd take 45 minutes to read the letters pages in those things.

Obviously he CAN draw. I'm sorry, but Savage Dragon has gone on for 18 years and 172 issues, and it's not like Image pays HIM to do it. Somebody likes and appreciates his style.

But bringing up Larsen, shows just how loved and remembered and, 'ahem'... important McFarlane's place is in comics 'fandom'.

 

Both artist's worked on the high profile Amazing Spider-man.

Both artist's left to go to work for Image

Both artist's were abrasively opinionated and rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. (Remember those McFarlane/Peter David clashes? I'm going to have to dig out my original copy of 'But I Digress', and read some of that stuff again)

Both artist's created non-team solo superhero comics that continue to be published through today.

 

But Todd is remembered fondly for two reason's that Erik can't compete with:

1) His artwork really was exciting and original and set the comics world on fire back in the day... and

2) He makes the greatest toys.

 

He changed, however you wish to see it, two of the biggest nerd industries, comics and toys, and the way they are done. That's pretty impressive.

 

 

 

 

[Ted Knight]

I'm amazed at how many posts fail to respond to the original question in this thread. It wasn't "Do you like/love/worship Todd McFarlane." It was "How does his work hold up relative to the rest of the creative teams that have worked on the book?"

 

Answer: It doesn't. Unless you haven't read the whole run and only read the McFarlane Spider-mans. In which case, I'm sorry for you. You should really read the first hundred and fifty issues. Everyone of them is better than any of the McFarlane comics. Anyone care to argue this point?

[Prince Namor]

I'm amazed at how many posts fail to respond to the original question in this thread. It wasn't "Do you like/love/worship Todd McFarlane." It was "How does his work hold up relative to the rest of the creative teams that have worked on the book?"

 

Answer: It doesn't. Unless you haven't read the whole run and only read the McFarlane Spider-mans. In which case, I'm sorry for you. You should really read the first hundred and fifty issues. Everyone of them is better than any of the McFarlane comics. Anyone care to argue this point?

 

Nope. Though it was kinda weak between 103-118.

[Mac Man]

I'm amazed at how many posts fail to respond to the original question in this thread. It wasn't "Do you like/love/worship Todd McFarlane." It was "How does his work hold up relative to the rest of the creative teams that have worked on the book?"

 

Answer: It doesn't. Unless you haven't read the whole run and only read the McFarlane Spider-mans. In which case, I'm sorry for you. You should really read the first hundred and fifty issues. Everyone of them is better than any of the McFarlane comics. Anyone care to argue this point?

 

But the OP asks "in the grande scheme of things"--not just the first 150 issues. And really, some of those Bronze ages issues aren't all the best. Now, the first 100 issues with a few gems after (like 121/22 and 129 which are great reads), well, you just don't get much better than those. But in the overall scheme of Amazing Spider-Man, I the fact that many people respond so strongly to McFarlane and Michelinie speaks to how well they stand up to this day and when compared to the rest.

 

For what it's worth, I'd say the only books that REALLY outdo McFarlane and Michelinie's efforts since the Ditko / JRSR days would be the Kraven's Last Hunt story arc. THAT was some top of the line stuff, and second only to the Silver Age material (and if I really went issue by issue, we'd find it probably stands taller than some of those earlier issues and story arcs).

[Shadow]

I didn't collect during that period nor was I ever a big Spiderman collector. I doubt I'd buy it but if it was at the library, I may pick it up to read. I think I've read the Kraven story and that's it.

[Bruce1971]

I'm amazed at how many posts fail to respond to the original question in this thread. It wasn't "Do you like/love/worship Todd McFarlane." It was "How does his work hold up relative to the rest of the creative teams that have worked on the book?"

 

Answer: It doesn't. Unless you haven't read the whole run and only read the McFarlane Spider-mans. In which case, I'm sorry for you. You should really read the first hundred and fifty issues. Everyone of them is better than any of the McFarlane comics. Anyone care to argue this point?

 

But the OP asks "in the grande scheme of things"--not just the first 150 issues. And really, some of those Bronze ages issues aren't all the best. Now, the first 100 issues with a few gems after (like 121/22 and 129 which are great reads), well, you just don't get much better than those. But in the overall scheme of Amazing Spider-Man, I the fact that many people respond so strongly to McFarlane and Michelinie speaks to how well they stand up to this day and when compared to the rest.

 

For what it's worth, I'd say the only books that REALLY outdo McFarlane and Michelinie's efforts since the Ditko / JRSR days would be the Kraven's Last Hunt story arc. THAT was some top of the line stuff, and second only to the Silver Age material (and if I really went issue by issue, we'd find it probably stands taller than some of those earlier issues and story arcs).

 

 

Kraven's Last Hunt is my favourite Spider-Man story (thumbs u

[Ted Knight]

I'm amazed at how many posts fail to respond to the original question in this thread. It wasn't "Do you like/love/worship Todd McFarlane." It was "How does his work hold up relative to the rest of the creative teams that have worked on the book?"

 

Answer: It doesn't. Unless you haven't read the whole run and only read the McFarlane Spider-mans. In which case, I'm sorry for you. You should really read the first hundred and fifty issues. Everyone of them is better than any of the McFarlane comics. Anyone care to argue this point?

 

But the OP asks "in the grande scheme of things"--not just the first 150 issues. And really, some of those Bronze ages issues aren't all the best. Now, the first 100 issues with a few gems after (like 121/22 and 129 which are great reads), well, you just don't get much better than those. But in the overall scheme of Amazing Spider-Man, I the fact that many people respond so strongly to McFarlane and Michelinie speaks to how well they stand up to this day and when compared to the rest.

 

For what it's worth, I'd say the only books that REALLY outdo McFarlane and Michelinie's efforts since the Ditko / JRSR days would be the Kraven's Last Hunt story arc. THAT was some top of the line stuff, and second only to the Silver Age material (and if I really went issue by issue, we'd find it probably stands taller than some of those earlier issues and story arcs).

 

 

Kraven's Last Hunt is my favourite Spider-Man story (thumbs u

 

Kraven's Last Hunt was a fun read. However, one of the best storylines in comics has to be 100-104, Doesn't it? Morbius, Lizard, Ka-zar, Kraven, and... Gog!!! Gil Kane is the man. Believe it!

[Ted Knight]

 

Nope. Though it was kinda weak between 116-118.

 

Fixed that for you.

[Conan_Aficionado]

Having never read any issues under 150, I'll base my placement of lee/ conway based on how I think others may perceive them in the grand scale of the run.

 

WRITER/ ARTIST COLLABORATIONS

 

1. Lee / Ditko

2. Lee/ Romita

3. Conway/ Romita

4. Conway/ Kane

5. Michelinie/ Mcfarlane

6. Lein/ Andru

7. DeMetheis/ Bagley

8. Straczynski/ Romita Jr.

9. Deflaco/ Frenze

10. Mackie/ Byrne.

 

These would be my top 10 collaborations, this thread makes me want to go out and get the ASM essentials to see how good LEE/Conway were.

 

Noteworthy: Michelinie has the second longest run as writer on Amazing Spider-Man second only to Stan "The Man" Lee. 290-388.

[500Club]

I'm amazed at how many posts fail to respond to the original question in this thread. It wasn't "Do you like/love/worship Todd McFarlane." It was "How does his work hold up relative to the rest of the creative teams that have worked on the book?"

 

No it wasn't. It was how does the TEAM of Michelinie/McFarlane hold up...

 

...but I'll bite...

 

Answer: It doesn't. Unless you haven't read the whole run and only read the McFarlane Spider-mans. In which case, I'm sorry for you. You should really read the first hundred and fifty issues. Everyone of them is better than any of the McFarlane comics. Anyone care to argue this point?

 

I'll argue. Gladly. After 102, things get very uneven. Doc Ock marrying Aunt May? This is superior? The Gibbon? Kangaroo? Mindworm? Grizzly?

 

How about the Spider-Mobile?

 

C'mon. Next you'll try to tell us you build good bridges in Minnesota.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Erik Larsen is a dink who can't keep his stupid politics out of his art.

 

That makes him LAME.

 

It's fair to think that he's lame but that doesn't make him a bad artist.

 

Lebron James is beyond 'dink' level but he's an amazing basketball player.

 

You know what I'm saying here, and I can tell that you really do not like Larsen.

 

 

Larsen as a person, or Larsen as an artist?

 

I'm talking about his artistic merits, not who he is as a person. I feel the two can be separated.

 

Do you like his work? You can think that he's a dink AND a bad artist.

 

That is correct. I CAN think he's a dink and a bad artist. I can also think he's a dink and a GOOD artist.

 

I happen to think he's a dink and a functional artist, who has ruined his work by his nonsense partisanship.

 

Artists playing politics is old, old news, and almost every time it happens, it lessens their appeal greatly.

 

Politics and art...like politics and the CGC board...don't mix.

[Mac Man]

I'm amazed at how many posts fail to respond to the original question in this thread. It wasn't "Do you like/love/worship Todd McFarlane." It was "How does his work hold up relative to the rest of the creative teams that have worked on the book?"

 

Answer: It doesn't. Unless you haven't read the whole run and only read the McFarlane Spider-mans. In which case, I'm sorry for you. You should really read the first hundred and fifty issues. Everyone of them is better than any of the McFarlane comics. Anyone care to argue this point?

 

But the OP asks "in the grande scheme of things"--not just the first 150 issues. And really, some of those Bronze ages issues aren't all the best. Now, the first 100 issues with a few gems after (like 121/22 and 129 which are great reads), well, you just don't get much better than those. But in the overall scheme of Amazing Spider-Man, I the fact that many people respond so strongly to McFarlane and Michelinie speaks to how well they stand up to this day and when compared to the rest.

 

For what it's worth, I'd say the only books that REALLY outdo McFarlane and Michelinie's efforts since the Ditko / JRSR days would be the Kraven's Last Hunt story arc. THAT was some top of the line stuff, and second only to the Silver Age material (and if I really went issue by issue, we'd find it probably stands taller than some of those earlier issues and story arcs).

 

 

Kraven's Last Hunt is my favourite Spider-Man story (thumbs u

 

Kraven's Last Hunt was a fun read. However, one of the best storylines in comics has to be 100-104, Doesn't it? Morbius, Lizard, Ka-zar, Kraven, and... Gog!!! Gil Kane is the man. Believe it!

 

Gil Kane is a definitely a top artist for ASM; however, that particular story arc was so-so. The whole multiple arms piece, well, not exactly one of my favorites. Not bad, but certainly not in the Top 5 story arcs... which, I'd argue Kraven's Last Hunt would be a #4 or #5 place finish. I'm not even sure I'd go Top 10 on the multiple arms storyline of 100-104.

[Ted Knight]

 

C'mon. Next you'll try to tell us you build good bridges in Minnesota.

 

Ouch, man. You Canadians are always making fun of our infrastructure. And we Americans have no ground to stand on. It sucks!

 

I used to drive across that bridge everyday and drove across it the morning of the day it failed. Sadly, the bridge they replaced it with is particularly lame, but it's safe... at least I think it is.

 

I think your assessment of after 102 is a little unfair. You name the lower points but the high points are pretty good. The truth is, since the Romita era, it's been a slow steady decline in quality with a few upticks but a vastly downward trend. Just because the Micheline/McFarlane era is a slight uptick in a sea of badness doesn't make it better than the death of Gwen Stacy/Green Goblin, the Jackal storyline, and who could forget the ghost of Hammerhead!