Foolkiller's C2E2 2011 Report (Pics and Scans)

[Transplant]

After that went to dinner with Andre, Storms, Mary Ann, Tom Gordon, and his buddy Brian. Had a fantastic time at Morton's, then caught up with Mike Strahan (transplant), Jim McCallum (CGCworld), and Mike Miles. We went to a local club, then briefly met Ali Jae, Joe Pierson and Jon Jesperson out for a drink. The other guys went back to the club, Storms went home and I hung out with the CGC group for a bit, then went back to the hotel and crashed around 2 AM.

It was only after Brian and I discussed how stuffy and business oriented Gibson's is, that I realized:

1) Jespersen was so out of his element;

2) I'm pretty sure I agreed to buy a small widget company in Duluth; and

3) Ketterer was wearing sandals the entire time, despite it being about 40 degrees outside.

[conditionfreak]

Insiders get the early chance at the best offererings in all endeavors. Including here on the Collectors Society boards.

 

It is what it is and that is that.

 

I wonder if CGC personnel ever contact submitters and ask if they want to sell, before the book is returned to them?

 

I generally make it a rule to do my Con shopping just a few hours before they close down on the last day. Common sense tells me that better deals can be had then. So does experience.

 

Sure you miss the really good stuff. But I can't afford the really good stuff anyway. Being a collector/investor and not a flipper.

 

So....it works for me.

 

I set up at a couple of shows way back in the day, and Harley Yee and a couple of others that I don't even know their names, just about cleaned me out. Funny thing is, I had an AF #15 on my wall, for sale for $950.00 and Harley and some others looked it over several times, and none pulled the trigger. It didn't sell. Years later I sent it to CGC and it came back trimmed. I didn't know it was trimmed, but those dealers must have been on their game. Pros always beat amateurs.

 

Good report and good photos.

[Warren Oates]

 

I wonder if CGC personnel ever contact submitters and ask if they want to sell, before the book is returned to them?

 

 

Yikes.

 

I don't think so.

[OldGuy]

 

I wonder if CGC personnel ever contact submitters and ask if they want to sell, before the book is returned to them?

 

 

Yikes.

 

I don't think so.

 

If what we're told is true, graders doesn't know who owns a book they're grading.

[conditionfreak]

 

I wonder if CGC personnel ever contact submitters and ask if they want to sell, before the book is returned to them?

 

 

Yikes.

 

I don't think so.

 

I'm not sure if anything would be wrong with that. If the book was already graded. Doesn't Heritage and other auction companies buy books outright?

[conditionfreak]

 

I wonder if CGC personnel ever contact submitters and ask if they want to sell, before the book is returned to them?

 

 

Yikes.

 

I don't think so.

 

If what we're told is true, graders doesn't know who owns a book they're grading.

 

Graders perhaps. But, you can call for graders notes. You can call and ask about other things. I have called many years ago, and asked about specific books and their location in the process. I once called about an All Flash #1 (later graded as a 7.5) and they wouldn't talk with me until I verified who I was. I called because it was taking forever and I was afraid the book would disappear. This was in the beginnings of CGC.

 

So, no, That can't be true. Generally probably. But not in all cases. If you send in an AF #16 in 9.6 or a Tec #27 in 7.0, they know who you are before the book is graded and slabbed. I can't believe it could be otherwise.

 

Heck. As a cop, "we" knew who was going to be secretely indicted before they were. Even though it is supposed to be secret. Similar thing I think.

 

I'm not casting accusations towards CGC. I'm just facing reality. I don't care if they offer to buy a book from someone who submitted it. What would be the difference between that and them offering to buy a book on these boards?

[DinnerB-migration]

 

I wonder if CGC personnel ever contact submitters and ask if they want to sell, before the book is returned to them?

 

 

Yikes.

 

I don't think so.

 

I'm not sure if anything would be wrong with that. If the book was already graded. Doesn't Heritage and other auction companies buy books outright?

 

Yes, Steve Borock buys books for heritage to auction.

 

[OldGuy]

 

I wonder if CGC personnel ever contact submitters and ask if they want to sell, before the book is returned to them?

 

 

Yikes.

 

I don't think so.

 

If what we're told is true, graders doesn't know who owns a book they're grading.

 

That can't be true. You can call for graders notes. You can call and ask about other things. I have called many years ago, and asked about specific books and their location in the process. I once called about an All Flash #1 (later graded as a 7.5) and they wouldn't talk with me until I verified who I was.

 

So, no, That can't be true. Generally probably. But not in all cases. If you send in an AF #16 in 9.6 or a Tec #27 in 7.0, they know who you are before the book is graded and slabbed. I can't believe it could be otherwise.

 

Heck. As a cop, "we" knew who was going to be secretely indicted before they were. Even though it is supposed to be secret. Similar thing I think.

 

I'm not casting accusations towards CGC. I'm just facing reality. I don't care if they offer to buy a book from someone who submitted it. What would be the difference between that and them offering to buy a book on these boards?

 

Like I said, "if what we're told is true".

 

After being examined by a Restoration Detection Expert, a book then passes to a pre-grader. At this stage the comic books are in barcoded mylar sleeves, and have been separated from their original invoice. This step is taken to ensure that graders do not know whose books they are grading, as a further guarantee of impartiality.

 

Also, there is this little bit from the CGC website: CGC employees are prohibited from commercially buying or selling comic books, eliminating any potential conflicts of interest.

 

Any more questions?

[lou_fine]

I guess it's just human nature to feel a bit upset in these particular types of situations. Especially when you are one of the unlucky ones on the outside looking in.

 

This reminds me to a smaller extent of the Diamond Galleries opening back in the mid-90's which again was based upon an invitation only offer. The perception was made even more pronounced as a small select number of these invitees were then invited back for a Saturday brunch and unveiling of the bulk of Overstreet's personal collection. A definite feeding frenzy that time as boxes were brought out by the wagonload. Needless to say, the dealers and long-time collectors who did not get invited to either of these activities felt left out and were a bit miffed.

 

I certainly understand why the sale was handled in this method, but I also understand why some would feel that this is not a level playing field.

 

 

But this only reinforces how everyone is rationalizing this situation. From what I understand, when Geppi unveiled all of those books there was indeed a feeding frenzy. However, just like in the current scenario, those buyers were spending a significant amount of money and they were buying multiple books if not boxes. And from what I understand, in the Geppi instance, that no one really mentions when they talk about all the great books that were there, is that none of the books had prices. And apparently Geppi later sent huge bills for the books taken that were far and above the guide and a lot of the buyers were very upset at what they felt were exhorbitant prices. At least in this scenario there were prices and everyone invited had an opportunity to look at the books first. It makes a lot of sense to only invite those who have proven that they will spend the money and buy in bulk.

 

If you are talking about exhirbitant pricing, I would definitely lay this at the hands of a few dealers as opposed to Geppi and Overstreet. From a collector's point of view, the prices on the first day were quite reasonable. Definitely over guide, but you really can't complain too much about paying a premium to guide for HG HTF GA books that rarely ever shows up in the marketplace. I didn't have any real problems with multiples of guide (2x or 3X or slightly more) for pedigree books such as Mile Highs and Allentowns.

 

The reason for the exhorbitant pricing is that a few of the dealers were taking their books and flipping them almost immediately it to collectors for 2 or 3 times and in one well known case 10 times what they had just finished paying Geppi for the books. As a collector, I am sure this probably left a bad taste in Overstreet's mouth to see that books which he had been accumulating for the last 40 years were now being flipped by a few dealers for multiples of what he had just sold them for.

 

Who really deserves to make more money on the books? A personal collector who had the books for 30 - 40 years or a dealer who had them for only a few days. I know what my answer would be and I had no problems with Geppi pricing the books accordingly for these few dealers in light of what was happening.

 

I believe these few dealers felt that they should have gotten the books at a discount due to the significant quantitites which they were scooping up as opposed to paying almost collector prices which were generally charged to everybody else. Of course, a dealer would much rather get a book for $2K and be able to flip it immediately for $5K as opposed to getting it for $4K and having to sell it for only $5K.

[Shadow]

Great report, Foolkiller! (I think I just missed you last year at a comic shop in downtown Pittsburgh.)

 

Is Dave = Northcoast Comics? If so, I've bought from him in the past. Nice guy.

 

I went to a local Motor City show yesterday and bought a few books from Derek Rose. Always a nice selection and a pleasure to deal with. Got some nice BA DC's and plugged some holes. Plus bought a few that weren't on my list because they looked nice. (Four Star Spectacular #1)

[conditionfreak]

"Any more questions?"

 

Yes. One more (for now).

 

Does "commercially buying or selling" mean buying for ones own collection is okay?

 

Nevermind. Buying for ones own collection does not preclude one from selling at any given time. Now or later.

 

The differences between a collector and a commercial dealer are blurred. Many are both.

[conditionfreak]

Great report, Foolkiller! (I think I just missed you last year at a comic shop in downtown Pittsburgh.)

 

Is Dave = Northcoast Comics? If so, I've bought from him in the past. Nice guy.

 

I went to a local Motor City show yesterday and bought a few books from Derek Rose. Always a nice selection and a pleasure to deal with. Got some nice BA DC's and plugged some holes. Plus bought a few that weren't on my list because they looked nice. (Four Star Spectacular #1)

 

Dave is the owner of Northcoast Nostalgia comic book stores. So....Northcoast Comics: yes.

 

Good grader and great dealer, IMO. Does not do what many do, ie: three to ten times guide. At least I have never seen him do it. I used to visit his two stores in the Cleveland area weekly.

[Timmay]

Great report Brian.

 

Looks like I will have to try to make it to this one next year.

[VintageComics]

Brian, that GL #14 is scary nice.

 

[thehumantorch]

Thanks for the great report Brian.

[Moondog]

Interesting report, Brian, and it was nice meeting you.

 

My take on the show - I was there Saturday only - was that it was in 1/2 the space with twice the crowd, so it was very crowded in the aisles. I hope they go back to the room they had in 2010 next year.

 

Good solid back issue dealers, but only a fraction of what shows up at WW. I saw only one booth with dollar boxes.

 

Dave and I have the same view of selling to dealers before the show opens - it's the best way for us to go. In my case I only sell at one show a year, so I NEED to sell books, and dealers buy stacks at a time. I usually sell 60% of my entire show to dealers before the show opens.

 

The dealers as a whole were happy with sales. That's a good sign and bodes well for WW.

[Flash105]

"Any more questions?"

 

Yes. One more (for now).

 

Does "commercially buying or selling" mean buying for ones own collection is okay?

 

Nevermind. Buying for ones own collection does not preclude one from selling at any given time. Now or later.

 

The differences between a collector and a commercial dealer are blurred. Many are both.

 

I remember Steve Borock sold his collection and did not own any books. He became an original art collector to satisfy his collecting needs. I also remember when he left CGC how excited he was to begin buying comics again. So if he was held to that that standard, I would bet money if they ever caught a grader buying books, especially slabs, their butt would be fired.

[fantastic_four]

I remember Steve Borock sold his collection and did not own any books. He became an original art collector to satisfy his collecting needs. I also remember when he left CGC how excited he was to begin buying comics again. So if he was held to that that standard, I would bet money if they ever caught a grader buying books, especially slabs, their butt would be fired.

 

I'll take that bet. I haven't heard this one way or the other, but Borock may have sold his collection because he's a higher profile than the other employees since he was president and intended from the start to be an open book to the collecting community. The only thing I recall is that there is a company policy of no selling, but I've heard nothing about buying. I'm guessing there's nothing preventing them from doing it, but I could be wrong.

[DinnerB-migration]

 

CGC employees can buy books but can't have them graded.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

CGC employees can buy books but can't have them graded.

 

Heard anything about them being dissuaded from buying already-graded books? There's potential to "launder" gift grades through a third party if buying them already-slabbed were fine.