You win some, you lose some - 6.0 goes down to SS 5.0

[joeypost]

Just to answer your questions. YES DWC handled that book for that signing. Just like we handle the 1000's and 1000's of other books that get signed. And we handled each on them as careful as the next one. While I am sure you guys question what happened consider a few facts. That customer submitted 105 books to be signed by Stan during that signing. Of the 105 books only a few changed in graded. Now if you want to say "Oh DWC how could you be so rough with a book"? It was that SAME rough handling that had his Incredible Hulk 181 CGC 9.6 get signed by Stan Lee and then come back a 9.8! The customer, as a result of our "rough handling", saw his IH 181 go from a $5,000 book to a $22,000 and he proceeded to sell it for $33,000! And of the few that did drop in grade, the customer refused to accept the grade drop even though some of the books that dropped had the exact same notes from the previous grade to the new grade.

 

Let me give you some more numbers. In 2010 we handled over 4000 previously CGC slabbed books. 97% of them came back the same grade. So of the 3% that changed grade. A little more then half dropped a grade and the rest went up in grade. What you also seem to forget is as brittle as some of these older books get they still have to be handled by Stan and they have to be handled by his handler and CGC. So while it is easy to point the finger at DWC, be careful to consider all the other factors in getting a book signed.

 

I hope you guys find this information enlighting. Thank you.

 

Chandler, my comment was not finger pointing and I apologise if you took it as such. I was simply stating, from my experiences at the last few Stan Lee signings that most of them were handled by you. Nothing more.

[Celestial Comics]

Joey,

 

I did not take it as finger pointing. I have absolutely no problem stepping up and letting people know we were the people that handled that signing. My post was more to inform others as to the circumstances involved in such signings and to state the obvious which is there are no gaurantees.

 

Hech we all know we take a chance with grades anytime we crack a book out. Believe me when I say that I can not emphasize that enough to people when they call me and say "I have a 9.8 book, now I want to get it signed and I expect it to come back 9.8". At that point I explain everything to them and I simply say if you expect your book to return the same grade then don't bother submitting it to us. We do the best job we can but since we are only a small part of the overall process and we can not control every facet of the process, I will not make any guanratees PERIOD!

 

But then you guys know this and we all are trying to do the same thing. Give a quality product with quality service at a reasonable price. And for that we thank you guys for any support.

[Pirate]

defensive much?

[HaydenTO]

I am sure DWC handles every book they crack as gently as possible. Personally I worry more about the people they pass them on to (the handlers and artists) than anything else. I would also guess that sometimes things are caught on 2nd grading that were somehow missed the first time.

 

I have had some pre-signature graded books come back both higher and lower although I have not investigated grading notes just yet.

 

So like the title says:

You win some...

Avengers 1 CGC 5.5 to CGC SS 6.0 Stan Lee

 

You lose some...

ASM 50 CGC 9.2 to CGC SS 9.0 Stan Lee & John Romita Sr

 

It's the risk you take but as Chandler pointed out in the case of the IH 181 9.8 it can sometimes work in your favour!

[Comixroc]

agreed:

 

You win some:

 

Superman #75 polybag 9.6 Universal to 9.8 SS Dan Jurgens

 

You lose some:

 

Ultimatum #1 Variant 9.8 Universal to 9.6 SS Finch

 

Although i've learned a drop in grade is not really a loss and is just part of the hobby. To me, a 9.8 is the same as a 9.6. Why do you think the grades flip so often? I think the difference is simply wiggle room for the graders. I once had a 9.6 re-subed to come back a 9.8 only to have it re-subed for a sig and come back a 9.6 again! (not complaining, just stating the fact).

 

Even in my line of work (Workers' Comp) we have some wiggle room. There are basic laws i have to follow, but some decisions are simply based on how i'm feeling that day.

 

Now a drop say from a 9.6 to 9.0,....that would hurt and i would like to see graders notes on that.

 

Bottom line is when you re-sub a book your are taking a risk. Your best bet is to prep your books yourself. Let's be honest, nobody is gonna handle your books as gentle as you would (unless it's an SS your subing for another sig. In that case you have no choice).

 

HUGE thanks to all on the boards who accept my subs for signings!!!

[lscomics]

This was a 7.0 old label when I submitted it for SS. I didn't even give a second thought to a possible grade bump or drop.

 

This was originally a 9.2 when it came back from CGC after being signed by Ayers and came back 9.4 after being cracked and re-subbed for Trimpe and Friedrich.

[Rich_Henn]

I am sure DWC handles every book they crack as gently as possible. Personally I worry more about the people they pass them on to (the handlers and artists) than anything else.

 

No doubts there. I've seen artists use their fingers as "props" the lean a book against when they sign. I have NO idea why (several) creators sign books but lifting them up off the table and siging. Maybe it's an artist thing? I just don't see why the book needs to come up off the table. Other creators will pinch the spine then they hand it back to you. That God there are top loaders to prevent all that.

 

In my case, what I do is add 2 or 3 full backs in my backing board/bag to give it the rigidity it needs to prevent damage. I've also gone the extent now of adding another backing board as a flap with tape on the top edge, to flip over the face of the book to A) protect the book that much more, no squeezed spines and B) protect the open area of the comic from the window bag so no dirt or anything can soil the face.

 

This is especially helpful in mail aways, since you have ZERO control over the condition of the book once it leaves your hands and sits at a creators house for long periods of time.

 

I had to do about 75 silver age slabs a year ago for someone, half of which were yellow label s/s already. Most held the grade, but about 10 books went up a grade, three went down a grade.

[Turtle]

The flap on the front works pretty well, but I wouldn't recommend it for sketches as there is some extra movement in the book as they're working. Works like a charm for single sigs, though.

[AbsoluteCarnage]

Looks like it sustained some damage when it was cracked. Particularly on the upper and lower right corners.

 

Agreed especially on the upper right. However this book could have been banged around from a few different ppl before the SS ing. I don't know the history nor have I read more than the 1st or 2nd post.

 

 

 

RIch

 

Nice book either way!!!!!!!! ;-)