Pedigree status or higher grade

[TheLiamSturgess]

www.comicbookpedigrees.com

[Justin Case]

Since we don't know the pedigree, I will make this comment. If it's a Mohawk Valley,Savannah, or any of the other drek pedigrees he probably did everyone a favor. However, if it's one of the 'real' pedigrees this is a selfish, stupid act.

 

Actually it was more of the Silver /Bronze age pedigrees like Pacific Coast(my personal favourite), Oakland, Curator, Bethlehem and a few others. When i told him what he was doing was wrong he said he knew others who were doing it AND from a financial point of view collectors would always pay more for a 9.6 than a pedigree 9.4 so it was the grade rather than the pedigree status that was more important for the collector. Is he right on both counts? Does anybody else know anyone who is doing this? And does grade count for more rather than the pedigree as to how much you would pay for a book?

[jkrk]

I'll try and explain this as clearly as i can but i dont want to give myself away to the parties involved so i cant give the exact details. A friend of mine introduced me to a friend of his who is also a comic collector. I went through his collection and was impressed with the range and the amount of high grade comics that he had. He told me that most had been pressed which was an honest admission but what he told me next shocked me. He said that several of them were pedigree copies and he deliberately did not send the original label in because he thought that CGC would just assign the same grade they gave it the first time round and that collectors were more likely to pay more for a comic that was say now a 9.6 against a pedigree comic with a grade of 9.4. Does anybody agree with this statement and does anybody know how common this is. If this is rife then some of our pedigree copies are going to be lost forever although he seems to think that collectors are not too concerned with this. Thoughts?

 

 

If I had a pedigree 9.4 and could turn it into a 9.6 if I lost the Pedigree I would do so with no hesitation. If I could hold onto the designation I would but not at the expense of a lower grade.

 

Unfortunately, the hobby is mainly about money/investments (given the prices the books are selling for) versus the love of comics. perhaps, if prices collapse then the purists will be back in control?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Since we don't know the pedigree, I will make this comment. If it's a Mohawk Valley,Savannah, or any of the other drek pedigrees he probably did everyone a favor. However, if it's one of the 'real' pedigrees this is a selfish, stupid act.

 

Actually it was more of the Silver /Bronze age pedigrees like Pacific Coast(my personal favourite), Oakland, Curator, Bethlehem and a few others. When i told him what he was doing was wrong he said he knew others who were doing it AND from a financial point of view collectors would always pay more for a 9.6 than a pedigree 9.4 so it was the grade rather than the pedigree status that was more important for the collector. Is he right on both counts? Does anybody else know anyone who is doing this? And does grade count for more rather than the pedigree as to how much you would pay for a book?

 

He's talking utter bollocks.

 

As has been pointed out already, he could have had the 9.6 and the Pedigree designation. The CGC graders don't know what the book was previously graded at.

[Green]

Since we don't know the pedigree, I will make this comment. If it's a Mohawk Valley,Savannah, or any of the other drek pedigrees he probably did everyone a favor. However, if it's one of the 'real' pedigrees this is a selfish, stupid act.

 

Actually it was more of the Silver /Bronze age pedigrees like Pacific Coast(my personal favourite), Oakland, Curator, Bethlehem and a few others. When i told him what he was doing was wrong he said he knew others who were doing it AND from a financial point of view collectors would always pay more for a 9.6 than a pedigree 9.4 so it was the grade rather than the pedigree status that was more important for the collector. Is he right on both counts? Does anybody else know anyone who is doing this? And does grade count for more rather than the pedigree as to how much you would pay for a book?

 

The point is, he can get the grade bump and keep the pedigree status. One has absolutely no bearing on the other. Your question of which is better is irrelevant since the answer is the best move financially is to get the grade bump and keep the pedigree. This whole thread, and your friend disgust me.

 

 

[Justin Case]

Since we don't know the pedigree, I will make this comment. If it's a Mohawk Valley,Savannah, or any of the other drek pedigrees he probably did everyone a favor. However, if it's one of the 'real' pedigrees this is a selfish, stupid act.

 

Actually it was more of the Silver /Bronze age pedigrees like Pacific Coast(my personal favourite), Oakland, Curator, Bethlehem and a few others. When i told him what he was doing was wrong he said he knew others who were doing it AND from a financial point of view collectors would always pay more for a 9.6 than a pedigree 9.4 so it was the grade rather than the pedigree status that was more important for the collector. Is he right on both counts? Does anybody else know anyone who is doing this? And does grade count for more rather than the pedigree as to how much you would pay for a book?

 

The point is, he can get the grade bump and keep the pedigree status. One has absolutely no bearing on the other. Your question of which is better is irrelevant since the answer is the best move financially is to get the grade bump and keep the pedigree. This whole thread, and your friend disgust me.

 

 

First of all he is NOT my friend. I stated in my first post it is a friend of a friend. Secondly why would this thread disgust you. One poster has already said he would lose the pedigree status if he knew he would get a grade bump so its left me wondering how many others are doing this and who feels the same way. I personally was shocked when he told me what he was doing and i think this is something worth discussing.

[Foolkiller]

I'm not sure anyone does it with a routine practice, but I'm fairly certain I've heard examples where Lauterbach does this (someone who looks at books only as a commodity) and others who don't care about the history, just the value. If this was your only concern, then whether or not the book is a "pedigree" is irrelevant.

 

There also a lot of folks who think the whole "pedigree" distinction is nonsense, so they don't bother to track it if they upgrade books.

 

I think this is a shame -- and when books become commodities only... this is bound to happen. Widgets are widgets.

[paperheart]

Since we don't know the pedigree, I will make this comment. If it's a Mohawk Valley,Savannah, or any of the other drek pedigrees he probably did everyone a favor. However, if it's one of the 'real' pedigrees this is a selfish, stupid act.

 

Actually it was more of the Silver /Bronze age pedigrees like Pacific Coast(my personal favourite), Oakland, Curator, Bethlehem and a few others. When i told him what he was doing was wrong he said he knew others who were doing it AND from a financial point of view collectors would always pay more for a 9.6 than a pedigree 9.4 so it was the grade rather than the pedigree status that was more important for the collector. Is he right on both counts? Does anybody else know anyone who is doing this? And does grade count for more rather than the pedigree as to how much you would pay for a book?

 

He's talking utter bollocks.

 

As has been pointed out already, he could have had the 9.6 and the Pedigree designation. The CGC graders don't know what the book was previously graded at.

 

+1 and English curses

[DrWatson]

Since we don't know the pedigree, I will make this comment. If it's a Mohawk Valley,Savannah, or any of the other drek pedigrees he probably did everyone a favor. However, if it's one of the 'real' pedigrees this is a selfish, stupid act.

 

Actually it was more of the Silver /Bronze age pedigrees like Pacific Coast(my personal favourite), Oakland, Curator, Bethlehem and a few others. When i told him what he was doing was wrong he said he knew others who were doing it AND from a financial point of view collectors would always pay more for a 9.6 than a pedigree 9.4 so it was the grade rather than the pedigree status that was more important for the collector. Is he right on both counts? Does anybody else know anyone who is doing this? And does grade count for more rather than the pedigree as to how much you would pay for a book?

 

The point is, he can get the grade bump and keep the pedigree status. One has absolutely no bearing on the other. Your question of which is better is irrelevant since the answer is the best move financially is to get the grade bump and keep the pedigree. This whole thread, and your friend disgust me.

 

I concur.

[Ted Knight]

Actually it was more of the Silver /Bronze age pedigrees like Pacific Coast(my personal favourite), Oakland, Curator, Bethlehem and a few others. When i told him what he was doing was wrong he said he knew others who were doing it AND from a financial point of view collectors would always pay more for a 9.6 than a pedigree 9.4 so it was the grade rather than the pedigree status that was more important for the collector. Is he right on both counts? Does anybody else know anyone who is doing this? And does grade count for more rather than the pedigree as to how much you would pay for a book?

 

He doesn't know what he's talking about and is thinking about only a small percentage of the market. Yes, some people buy only the number on the label (generally speculators and very inexperienced collectors). In my experience, the majority of collectors (the ones that know what they're doing) have learned to look carefully at the book. CGC grading varies as we all know. Just because a copy of Hulk 181 says 9.9 on the label, doesn't mean it is a 9.9 right now (or perhaps ever was). Pedigrees are generally good indicators about the intangible, non-structural qualities of books (i.e. page quality, gloss, color). For many collectors, these intangibles have great value. People pay multiples of guide for Church books because they are white, glossy, fresh despite 70+ years of aging. Other pedigrees are avoided because of poor page quality due to excessive heat exposure (which unfortunately, happened to the Savannah books).

[Sal]

Your friend's friend is an idiot. A superhuman one. If stupidity was money, this guy could buy out Warren Buffett and the Sultan of Brunei.

 

 

Not considering the "right" and "wrong" of what he's doing, there's no angle from which this activity isn't utterly moronic on a Galactic scale. The guy obviously cares more about the value of his books than any other consideration, yet managed to cost himself thousands of dollars in liquidity, perhaps much more, depending on the books.

 

 

The only reason to not send in the label with a pedigree book that makes any sense - albeit an underhanded and quasi-fraudulent one - is that one would want to hide the book's potential grade bump due to concerns about disclosure

[MR SigS]

www.comicbookpedigrees.com

Seems like the logical place to start. Thanks (thumbs u

[Bomber-Bob]

 

If I had a pedigree 9.4 and could turn it into a 9.6 if I lost the Pedigree I would do so with no hesitation. If I could hold onto the designation I would but not at the expense of a lower grade.

 

 

I wish you were kidding but you made this statement with such pride.

It's too bad you are choosing to be part of the problem rather than the solution.

Suggestion: Trade stocks or options to get your greed fix, it's much more liquid.

[MR SigS]

He's talking utter bollocks.

 

As has been pointed out already, he could have had the 9.6 and the Pedigree designation. The CGC graders don't know what the book was previously graded at.

This is one of the aspects of CGC that I first burned into my memory. Them not knowing the history of any book is what keeps them unbiased.

Your friends friend blew it

By history, I mean past grade

[MR SigS]

If I had a pedigree 9.4 and could turn it into a 9.6 if I lost the Pedigree I would do so with no hesitation. If I could hold onto the designation I would but not at the expense of a lower grade.

 

Unfortunately, the hobby is mainly about money/investments (given the prices the books are selling for) versus the love of comics. perhaps, if prices collapse then the purists will be back in control?

Unless I'm missing your point, I find it odd that on one hand you say you wouldn't hesitate to bump a book up even at the loss of a Pedigree, but on the other hand you say, "Unfortunately, the hobby is mainly about money/investments."

If you contribute to it, why do you feel it's unfortunate?

[Monkeyman]

 

If I had a pedigree 9.4 and could turn it into a 9.6 if I lost the Pedigree I would do so with no hesitation. If I could hold onto the designation I would but not at the expense of a lower grade.

 

 

I wish you were kidding but you made this statement with such pride.

It's too bad you are choosing to be part of the problem rather than the solution.

Suggestion: Trade stocks or options to get your greed fix, it's much more liquid.

 

+1

[Monkeyman]

If I had a pedigree 9.4 and could turn it into a 9.6 if I lost the Pedigree I would do so with no hesitation. If I could hold onto the designation I would but not at the expense of a lower grade.

 

Unfortunately, the hobby is mainly about money/investments (given the prices the books are selling for) versus the love of comics. perhaps, if prices collapse then the purists will be back in control?

Unless I'm missing your point, I find it odd that on one hand you say you wouldn't hesitate to bump a book up even at the loss of a Pedigree, but on the other hand you say, "Unfortunately, the hobby is mainly about money/investments."

If you contribute to it, why do you feel it's unfortunate?

 

+1

[Monkeyman]

he doesn't sound like a collector to me, he's ruining the history of the pedigrees. i pray that none were pac coast.

 

Yep im afraid that collection was mentioned.

 

I think it's pretty well known that the Pacific Coast books have mostly been pressed. He probably lost the designation while having them pressed a second time.

[solm4st3r]

I'm too poor to own pedigree books ( I have just one and it's a Savannah). But I think the guy has a right to do whatever he wants with his books. If he wants to lose the designation, so be it. It's his loss since those books remain in his collection.

[TheWatcher]

I'm too poor to own pedigree books ( I have just one and it's a Savannah). But I think the guy has a right to do whatever he wants with his books. If he wants to lose the designation, so be it. It's his loss since those books remain in his collection.

 

It's every collector that cares about pedigrees loss, actually