Help Resolving Forum Transaction

[FlyingDonut]

File a police report for theft and then file an insurance claim on the building since they took responsibility for packages being delivered. It will at least get some attention.

 

This is pretty easy. Do this. The backup concierge stole it. Both parties will stipulate that it was (1) sent (2) paid for (3) signed for and (4) gone, so file the police report and be done with it.

[troydivision1]

What about security footage?

Any building that has a concierge should have a few dollars for a low cost security camera.

[mikenyc]

Well I am a board lawyer. However, it's not really an issue of legal liability because in this case, the problem is, nobody has any real proof except that the package was delivered. There's a million variances with carelessness -- as in the package is set down after being delivered and someone else walks off with it. Inadvertently goes somewhere else, logged in improperly etc.

 

The case would never go anywhere substantive.

 

With that said, consider these other factors:

 

1)that the concierge has been with the building 30 years

 

2)The postman was to discuss the matter with the concierge but has to date never addressed the missing package or spoken to anyone in the building.

 

 

Now I admit my legal knowledge is derived from obssesive Judge Judy viewing but doesn't the testimony of the two Postal employees carry weight in a civil suit. Where does the burden of proof lie?

 

What possible gain, other than the assumption of impropriety, would the two workers have for fabricating a story? This can't be a unique situation, how do they normally play out?

 

 

[lizards2]

Brian -

 

It is still unclear to me - did the P.O. follow its own policies and procedures?

[BlowUpTheMoon]

File a police report for theft and then file an insurance claim on the building since they took responsibility for packages being delivered. It will at least get some attention.

(thumbs u

 

After reading the entire thread to this point, I agree with the above. And also agree with what FD said a couple of posts back.

[thirdgreenham]

Well I am a board lawyer. However, it's not really an issue of legal liability because in this case, the problem is, nobody has any real proof except that the package was delivered. There's a million variances with carelessness -- as in the package is set down after being delivered and someone else walks off with it. Inadvertently goes somewhere else, logged in improperly etc.

 

The case would never go anywhere substantive.

 

With that said, consider these other factors:

 

1)that the concierge has been with the building 30 years

 

2)The postman was to discuss the matter with the concierge but has to date never addressed the missing package or spoken to anyone in the building.

 

 

I don't know if the package has been found yet or not, but I don't see the "proof" in this delivery confirmation. . I mean, what's to say the postie didn't scan the book and just say it was delivered? Or make up a name and say it was signed for?

 

 

[seank]

I think if the book was delivered exactly as the agreement stated - delivery confirmation, pony express, signature, whatever - that once the book is delivered, then the seller's responsibility ends. The seller can't be responsible if the buyer lives in a bad neighborhood or has a kleptomaniac concierge. If the buyer is in some kind of situation where disappearance of the book is likely, he or she should request additional security measures from the seller such as signature confirmation or mailing to a work address.

 

I say the seller is off the hook. I also agree with Cheetah and Donut on this.

[Ghost Town]

I think if the book was delivered exactly as the agreement stated - delivery confirmation, pony express, signature, whatever - that once the book is delivered, then the seller's responsibility ends. The seller can't be responsible if the buyer lives in a bad neighborhood or has a kleptomaniac concierge. If the buyer is in some kind of situation where disappearance of the book is likely, he or she should request additional security measures from the seller such as signature confirmation or mailing to a work address.

 

I say the seller is off the hook. I also agree with Cheetah and Donut on this.

I recently had a situation where CGC sent some books back to me via FedEx. FedEx said the package was signed for by my doorman. My doorman said FedEx had only delivered two packages with that delivery, and my box wasn't among them. I called FedEx and they put out a trace. It turned out my box was still on the FedEx truck. Unfortunately, a signature doesn't always mean a lot. Delivery confirmation probably means even less.

[comix4fun]

Once you get the information from the post office about if the signature was gained because of the insurance you will have another important piece to the puzzle.

 

If they don't have a signature on file, or no signature was attained by the delivery person it is entirely possible the package is still at the post office.

 

I have had this happen before. The delivery confirmation is simply proof that they scanned the bar code on the package intending to deliver it, NOT that it was actually delivered.

 

I have seen this happen over a half dozen times where an insured packaged is scanned for delivery and, when they can't attain a signature for insurance purposes the package is brought back to the local PO and a notice is supposed to be left for pickup (but may not have been left).

 

Everyone panics, the postal carrier can't remember what he did because of the volume of deliveries, but a trip to the local PO may end with the package sitting in their storage area.

[CKB]

I just have a few things to add.

 

You are straight out gambling if you put something in the mail worth $800 and do not REGISTER it. Period, end of story. You guys who throw big money books around the mail like candy at a parade really are asking for it.

 

It doens't matter how many time everything went fine, the next time will be the one where it all falls apart.

 

Lastly, I think you are giving up too easily on the postal insurance. Someone needs to go sit down with the postmaster. The USPS cannot just deliver insured items to any random person. It's right out of a episode of Seinfeld.

[mysterio]

The USPS cannot just deliver insured items to any random person. It's right out of a episode of Seinfeld.

 

I get insured items delivered to my campus address all the time and it is no problem for one of our secretaries to sign for it. I always go the campus route with my books, because there is always someone to sign for them and they are guaranteed to be indoors and not left on my porch. But I have never had the delivery person refuse to leave a package because I did not sign for it myself.

[skypinkblu]

Does the Seller have private insurance on their collection? If so, I'd contact that insurance company, it usually covers mailing.

 

It's too late now, but USPS has a new signature confirmation thingy...where they actually make sure an adult signs the delivery slip, I find that one scary.

 

My postman (who is a nice guy) is always signing my name to the signature confirmations, despite the fact that I ask him not to...he's always trying to save himself and me a trip to the PO.

 

I had a package go missing when he was off, so I had to contact the inspector general's office...this link might help from the PO end...http://www.uspsoig.gov/contact.htm

 

Personally, if it was someone I knew well and I trusted that they did not get it, I'd split it with them. I know I would not HAVE to, but I'd feel better...especially if I didn't think to add the signature confirmation on my own.

[oakman29]

I just have a few things to add.

 

You are straight out gambling if you put something in the mail worth $800 and do not REGISTER it. Period, end of story. You guys who throw big money books around the mail like candy at a parade really are asking for it.

 

It doens't matter how many time everything went fine, the next time will be the one where it all falls apart.

 

Lastly, I think you are giving up too easily on the postal insurance. Someone needs to go sit down with the postmaster. The USPS cannot just deliver insured items to any random person. It's right out of a episode of Seinfeld.

 

Agreed 100% When I purchase big dollar books I meet up with the dealer at a Con,safe for both.Seller has his money in hand directly,buyer gets his book in hand directly.

[mysterio]

I just have a few things to add.

 

You are straight out gambling if you put something in the mail worth $800 and do not REGISTER it. Period, end of story. You guys who throw big money books around the mail like candy at a parade really are asking for it.

 

It doens't matter how many time everything went fine, the next time will be the one where it all falls apart.

 

Lastly, I think you are giving up too easily on the postal insurance. Someone needs to go sit down with the postmaster. The USPS cannot just deliver insured items to any random person. It's right out of a episode of Seinfeld.

 

Agreed 100% When I purchase big dollar books I meet up with the dealer at a Con,safe for both.Seller has his money in hand directly,buyer gets his book in hand directly.

 

Of course this is the absolute best way to go in a perfect world, but for those of us in flyover country that isn't always feasible...

[G.A.tor]

insurance for more than 250 requires a signature, according to the PO policy...a signature confirmation is redundant and is not nec. if insured for 800...so, that point is moot... file a claim with the PO, requiring them to provide the "proof" of delivery which is the electronic signature or the slip signature with the ins # listed...

 

the PO was paid to insure the delivery, they are responsible for proving that, otherwise, the PO should pay the claim...

 

my guess is that I have shipped more parcels over the years than anyone on these boards, so I hope I have provided a constructive response

[8milemax]

Like I said I will check when I get to work tomorrow to see if there is a sig "I work for the post office" I have the tracking number and I will make copies if there is a sig and send them to Brian.

[Ze-man]

The buyer has a right to be upset, but is he entitled to compensation from the seller? Is the seller right that he did everything he could, and so no further action need to be taken on his end?

 

 

Post Office investigations aside for a second.

 

Is the buyer entitled to compensation? No, Delivery Conf. and Insurance were provided.

 

After failure of delivery it falls to instigating Post Office investigations, or police reports to determine who signed for the book. I would say both parties should bear the burden of this investigation process.

 

While unfortunate, and highly frustrating I cannot see the buyer being entitled to a refund unless the seller does so out of good will.

 

And even then I would hold off on providing a partial refund until all resources were exhausted in trying to determine wtf happened to the book.

 

 

[G.A.tor]

Like I said I will check when I get to work tomorrow to see if there is a sig "I work for the post office" I have the tracking number and I will make copies if there is a sig and send them to Brian.

Both the sender and proposed recipient can get their local po to give them this info if they inquire. Part of the postmasters job I would think... I have access to my local po's internal system and I have seen clerks give that info to customers on request

[Silver Surfer]

File a police report for theft and then file an insurance claim on the building since they took responsibility for packages being delivered. It will at least get some attention.

 

I think this is the only way to go at the moment because the Post Office will put heat on Building Management to investigate/explain this further. Looks like something fishy went on so to not investigate it would be a shame.

[Tsimanga]

I used to have stuff like this happen quite often when I lived in my last apartment. The lost package was always eventually found... sometimes it just took 3/4 times looking for it and bugging the mail carrier.

 

 

 

BTW - I might actually vote for the buyer taking the hit on this one. It's not the sellers fault that the buyers receiving depot is unreliable, screwed up, lost the package or what have you. They are authorized to accept by the buyer.

 

I mean if we reverse things and the seller gives the package to his wife to deliver and it gets lost in transit or stolen on the way to the post office, would the buyer reimburse 50% then?

 

I believe the seller did everything he needed to do and has confirmation of such... of course he could be cool about it and help out with a little $ for the loss, but I really don't think it's his problem anymore. It's really no different than if it was delivered to a house and your little brother stole it or lost it... who's faults that?