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Was Brave & Bold #60 the true 1st appearance of the Teen Titans?

Started by boomtown,

20 posts in this topic

boomtown

boomtown

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Was just reading through an old DC comic where the Answer Man discusses the 1st appearance of The Teen Titans. The 2 issues in question are Brave & Bold #54 & #60. Brave & Bold 54 gets the Overstreet nod as first appearance even though the name Teen Titans is never mentioned on the cover or the book, it's just a team-up of Robin, Kid Flash & Aqualad. It books for over double what B & B #60 does, even though #60 is the first book where the term Teen Titans is used.

 

Similar situation to Sub-Mariner #35, which has the first team up of Namor, Hulk & Silver Surfer & is considered a prelude to the Defenders. In this case the prelude story only books for about half of what the first appearance (Marvel Feature #1) does.

 

I realize this is an Overstreet situation that will never be corrected, but really, isn't Brave & Bold #60 the real first appearance that should be the key?

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steveinthecity

steveinthecity

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I would think the first appearance of already existing characters being part of a team is when the team name is mentioned. The Defenders weren't "The Defenders" until they were referred to by that name. Same with Teen Titans.

 

I would say an appearance by a new character or group can be named much later, but the original appearance of the character or team should be considered the "first".

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bronze johnny

bronze johnny

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Interesting observation boomtown.

Since I never read BB 54, I would ask this: Are there references in the story to the characters identified as working together as a team and are there any indications that this was the beginning of the team and that this was there first of many adventures? This might help better define the intent of the artistic team that did BB 54.

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boomtown

boomtown

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If we want to get even more into it, #60 is no different of a line up since the new member was a screw up and didnt really exist (IIRC- wasnt Wonder Girl really just Wonder Woman as a child?)

 

It's listed as the first appearance of Donna Troy, although I don't have a copy to see whether she is introduced in the story that way.

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Silver

Silver

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An idea I have long held....B&B 54 is a Teen Titans tryout (possibly even just a one off that did well sales wise) and B&B 60 is the true first appearance. But wait....Overstreet says it's 54, so it has to be, right? Ask the war guys what they say is the first appearance of SGT Rock...I have other examples, but you get the point. Just because OS says it, doesn't make it so...

 

The Wonder Girl thing a screw up? I don't know, and maybe it doesn't matter. Wonder Girl in the Wonder Woman comics was Wonder Woman as a kid (and there was a Wonder Tot too). Anyways, it worked in B&B 60 and then again in Showcase 59, so screwup or not, Wonder Girl was born.

 

In my mind, B&B 54 is a Teen Titans tryout and B&B 60 is the first appearance of the Teen Titans AND Wonder Girl...which makes it a pretty big key.

 

bb54.jpg

 

bb60.jpg

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Hepcat

Hepcat

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Are there references in the story to the characters identified as working together as a team and are there any indications that this was the beginning of the team and that this was there first of many adventures?

 

There are none.

 

If we want to get even more into it, #60 is no different of a line up since the new member was a screw up and didnt really exist (IIRC- wasnt Wonder Girl really just Wonder Woman as a child?)

 

But that mistake created the team!

 

It's listed as the first appearance of Donna Troy, although I don't have a copy to see whether she is introduced in the story that way.

 

She wasn't "introduced" in any way. She was just there. I'm not even sure when her secret identity of Donna Troy was introduced.

 

In my mind, B&B 54 is a Teen Titans tryout and B&B 60 is the first appearance of the Teen Titans AND Wonder Girl...which makes it a pretty big key.

 

I agree. No Wonder Girl, no Teen Titans! Donna Troy was the necessary addition that created the Teen Titans.

 

:preach:

 

 

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Zonker

Zonker

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Are there references in the story to the characters identified as working together as a team and are there any indications that this was the beginning of the team and that this was there first of many adventures?

 

There are none.

 

If we want to get even more into it, #60 is no different of a line up since the new member was a screw up and didnt really exist (IIRC- wasnt Wonder Girl really just Wonder Woman as a child?)

 

But that mistake created the team!

 

It's listed as the first appearance of Donna Troy, although I don't have a copy to see whether she is introduced in the story that way.

 

She wasn't "introduced" in any way. She was just there. I'm not even sure when her secret identity of Donna Troy was introduced.

 

In my mind, B&B 54 is a Teen Titans tryout and B&B 60 is the first appearance of the Teen Titans AND Wonder Girl...which makes it a pretty big key.

 

I agree. No Wonder Girl, no Teen Titans! Donna Troy was the necessary addition that created the Teen Titans.

 

:preach:

 

 

Scripter Bob Haney and his editors never really cared about continuity. It was years before Wonder Girl's Donna Troy ID was ret-conned in by the next generation of comics fans-turned-pros: Marv Wolfman & Len Wein. The same issue that changed her costume from the WW one to the classic all-red body suit also revealed the first of many Donna Troy back-stories-- I think that was TT #22.

 

BTW, has there ever been a character with as convoluted and ever-changing a back story as the Donna Troy Wonder Girl character? I don't think even Phoenix, Power Girl or Hawkman come close!

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kimik

kimik

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Check out the mug shot of Wonder Girl on the left side of the cover to B&B #60. Looks like DC had a "drug issue" out well before the GL #85/86 and ASM #96-98 storylines.........

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Hepcat

Hepcat

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Check out the mug shot of Wonder Girl on the left side of the cover to B&B #60. Looks like DC had a "drug issue" out well before the GL #85/86 and ASM #96-98 storylines....

 

Despite filling out her top better in Brave & the Bold 60, Wonder Girl looked more adult in the Wonder Woman comic of the time:

 

16-06-2011101148PM.jpg

 

(shrug)

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Hepcat

Hepcat

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Scripter Bob Haney and his editors never really cared about continuity.

 

Robert Kanigher was the editor of "Wonder Woman" at the time in 1965. He must have thought that Wonder Girl had real potential as a character because Wonder Girl was not only the cover feature of "Wonder Woman" 150-153 but "Wonder Girl" was emblazoned on the covers of #152 and #153 in larger letters than "Wonder Woman".

 

Meanwhile, the editor of both "Brave & the Bold" and "Showcase" in 1965 was George Kashdan so he must shoulder the blame for borrowing a character who didn't actually exist - yet. DC though must have been pleased with the job he did because he was also given the job of editor of the "Teen Titans" book.

 

:juggle:

 

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

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An idea I have long held....B&B 54 is a Teen Titans tryout (possibly even just a one off that did well sales wise) and B&B 60 is the true first appearance. But wait....Overstreet says it's 54, so it has to be, right? Ask the war guys what they say is the first appearance of SGT Rock...I have other examples, but you get the point. Just because OS says it, doesn't make it so...

 

I immediately thought of that example. B&B 54 sounds like a tryout or prototype to me.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

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Check out the mug shot of Wonder Girl on the left side of the cover to B&B #60. Looks like DC had a "drug issue" out well before the GL #85/86 and ASM #96-98 storylines.........

 

yeah, I've always loved the meth'd out WG head shot... ;)

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Hepcat

Hepcat

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Yes, B&B #60 is the first real appearance of the Teen Titans. #54 is properly considered a prototype. It's just a team up of three characters.

 

I agree. Here are scans of my Teen Titans prequel issue and first two proper appearances:

 

03-08-2011112427PM.jpg

 

03-08-2011112434PM.jpg

 

03-08-2011112437PM.jpg

 

:juggle:

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