Missing stats on original art

[Tony S]

What is the consensus in the community about missing stats - like cover logos or blurbs? What about missing word ballons? I am speaking of ones that are "missing" . That is they were removed and discarded or lost. Does this affect the value of the art?

 

I am talking of vintage art where these logos, blurbs and word ballons were removed or fell off. Not modern art that never had them to begin with and were instead added digitally later in the process.

 

Sometimes - removing the pasted up stats reveals underlying art that is otherwise unseen. Does this offset the loss of the original stat? Often times a stain is left - and sometimes the services of a conservator removes those stains. So what's the collecting communities opinions on all this?

 

To start - I think one collects OA because you want to own the art that was used to print the book. Those logos, blurbs and word ballons were part of the original image used to produce the printed page. If they are removed and lost forever you are missing that part of the art.

 

But what do more experienced collectors or dealers think?

 

 

[AvengersFan]

I have had word balloons fall off of my pages and used my wifes' archival double sided tape she uses for scrapbooking to hook them back on. They are tiny pieces about 1x2 cm. Works nice and poses little to no danger to the page.

[Terry Doyle]

Ideally, I'd prefer it if all the stats were present on any piece of artwork I bought.

 

However, it's not a major issue to me if I bought a piece of artwork I really wanted that had (for example) a missing logo.

 

A missing logo can be re-created - it's the artwork that I focus on.

 

Here's a 1957 cover I own:

 

 

Here's the comic-book version:

 

 

As you will see, the original artwork is missing the caption box paste-up from the bottom right corner.

 

Does that matter to me?

 

Not in the slightest.

 

If I want to, I could have that caption box paste-up recreated.

 

But as there's artwork under that missing caption box, the image looks more complete.

 

 

[Mephisto]

I just got in a Kaluta cover that is missing a very small stat but don't think it's really worth having it replaced and putting it back in the postal system a few more times.

[AKA Rick]

Value for one-of-a-kind items like original comic book artwork is impacted by the fluctuating laws of supply and demand. There are price guides (meaning providing sales precedent and guidance, not rules) but at any given time, as seen with the auction models, pieces sell for a wide spectrum of final hammer pricing.

 

With that, rather than say "does it impact the value of the art", I'd say "does it impact the appeal of art"

 

Personally, when I see a piece with any flaws, it does impact my personal opinion of what I'm willing to pay, but it doesn't stop me from making an offer or buying a piece.

 

If I'm on the fence on a piece, then where perceived bargain pricing can be the "deal maker", flaws can become my personal "deal breaker" to which I decide not so pursue a piece.

 

Just like how certain comic book collectors don't mind specific flaws where others do mind such as signatures on a book, tanning, restoration, tears, etc. - - I think with original comic art, different collectors don't like certain modifications.

 

Here's what I generally dislike or would rather do without:

 

* Autographed/Signatures within the artwork (as opposed to in the border areas outside of the art.

 

* Personalization in the signatures.

 

* Aftermarket stamping or writing. I notice a lot of art dealers like to get a black rubber stamp and put their name on the back of orignal artwork and others like to (luckily use pencil which can be erased) write the price on the pages themselves either on the upper right corner or on the back.

 

* Inking of penciled piece done in post-publication. This is especially more relevant and prevelant with today's artwork where some artists pencil the art only, then it's either digitally inked and colored. I've not seen this much, but I did recently turn down a piece after I found out it was original pencils, but then inked by an artist who had nothing to do with the published version, so in my mind essentially turned a published piece into a commisioned piece, with less appeal to me. One artist told me that he sold his preliminary layout pieces, which collector's took and had inked over, then tried to sell as original art after it was tightened up. I can't buy into those pieces personally, and prefer the original rough layouts as loose as they may be, it's part of the artistic conceptual and creative process to get to the final design.

 

* Coloring artwork in post-production. I think I saw some of the mid-80's Marvel artwork colored by Steve Oliff, I'm not sure if it was done for the production of the piece or not 'tho, I speculate an owner of the original artwork brought him the art and commissioned recoloring onto the actual B&W page. I'm not sure of the facts behind those pieces I see 'tho. I've had commissions colored before, and that's always nice, but I'd never get a published piece hand colored.

 

* Word balloons, text boxes missing. I'd rather have them missing than replaced or even re-glued. I'd say get an overlay with the replacements for aesthetics, but never impacting or touching the original. I've had word balloons glue dry out and fall off my art, which I just use those "penny sleeves" used for trading cards and store them separately from the art, but with the artwork to keep it together, but not try to re-paste 'em up myself. I don't like restoration in any form, such as taping up a tear or re-coloring or touching up inks or if white-out was used and chipping, any re-application of new white-out. Generally speaking, I like my artwork as close to the "as is" original condition it was used as for the actual production of the publication. To that point, I don't like, but don't mind when the corners are clipped or when the publisher has their stamp on the back or the CCA (comic code authority) has their stamp either (as opposed to the samping I was describing above)

 

I'm not fond of, but it doesn't bother me so much if a piece has small minor bends, folds and creases that don't impact the artwork itself in a major way, if it's in the borders, side, minor surface wear and was just the product of handling through the business process of the artist mailing the artwork to the inker and publisher.

 

I personally don't like bluelines of pencils that are inked over, as a separate entity. If given a choice between the same piece, one sold by the penciling artist of the piece, pencils only; and the other sold by the inking artist, which is an inked over bluelined pencils version, which is closer to what the original published version is in actuality - I'd ideally like both - - but to me, in my opinion, the penciled version is of greater value - - the ony exception is if the inking artist has bigger starpower name (such as a Neal Adams, Adam Hughes, etc.) over the penciling artist and really embellished the piece over the bluelines.

 

So that's my opinion on the pieces. But I'm an oddity as a collector sometimes - I don't like DPS (double page splash) that are taped together, nor do I like pieces generally that are over the 11" x 17" size (unless it's the twice-up silver age stuff) when artists use smaller or larger sized paper for the original artwork either.

[Tony S]

Thanks everyone for good advice and insight

[Ponyboy]

I'm curious, does anyone know anyone in restoration who recreates lost word balloons?

 

I just recently bought a Batman Returns page by Jose Luis Garcia Lopez and Steve Erwin and it's missing one word balloon (with a single word!) Oh, the luck, eh? But I'd like it to be as complete as possible.

[Verbow]

Robert Dennis is great

 

http://www.agraphicstateofmind.com/comic_art_restoration_service.html

 

I've never used James Pascoe, but he frequently advertises on CAF

 

http://www.jamespascoe.net/site/Restoration_Galleries.html

[Ponyboy]

Thanks Verbow!

[MedicAR]

How about other restoration? I have what appears to be a coffee with warping on a page. Is that something that can be done or is it better to leave it alone?

[delekkerste]

For getting replacement stats, how do the logistics work? Does one typically send the original art to the person recreating the stats? Or do you send a copy? Or are people able to figure out the necessary dimensions and such without having the art in hand?

[malvin]

The one time I had stats replaced I sent the art to the restorer recreating it.

 

Malvin

[Terry Doyle]

For getting replacement stats, how do you the logistics work? Does one typically send the original art to the person recreating the stats? Or do you send a copy? Or are people able to figure out the necessary dimensions and such without having the art in hand?

 

You might want to consider the fact that replacement stats work better if colour-matched (or as close to) to blend with the physical artwork.

 

I've always found it jarring to look at white replacement stats on a creamy-coloured art board.

 

 

[alxjhnsn]

I sent my OA to Chris Ivy so he'd have the right size.

[georgefhagenauer]

Get the comic scan the balloon clean it in paint and print it on a good stock at the right size

Not hard to do don't need a restorer to do a lot of simple fixes to pages like word balloon or state replacement .

If you want it relettered take a 100% size photocopy of the original art and a copy of the printed version and mail that not the art to the letterer- saves money and reduces chance of loss or damage in transit

[J.Sid]

Best way is of course to have the art in hand.

 

Equally good and a lot less risky on high-end items is with a 100%-sized photocopy. The trick though, is that the copier needs to be LARGER than the board. You need to be able to see the space that is beyond the board so that you can be sure the art will fit exactly over it. If just one of the edges gets clipped a bit in the photocopying process, it can throw it all off.

 

3rd way is to just use a scan and have the owner measure the board. This is very tricky/risky, especially if there are any parts of the artwork overlapping the logo. Need to have someone very skilled to pull these off without having the artwork in-hand.