What's The Next Logical Step?

[dupont2005]

Okay, from a consumer perspective I was at a Toys R Us buying stuff for the kiddo recently and I see these little cards for $9.99 each that will allow me to get all the digital comics I want from Marvel for one full month. That's substantially lower than what I spend on Marvels at the LCS in the same given time frame.

 

I fully want to support my LCS, I will often sell books there on consignment instead of posting them on ebay...or here on the boards. However, the guy running the shop and I don't blame him at all, sees no upside for him on this digital format. Says it's pretty much cutting his own throat by supporting the digital format.

 

I've been thinking about this quite a bit, especially with 52 new number 1's coming from DC. I think it might be just another way to sell the product and not necessarily cutting one's own throat. Same store sells TPBs, so why not sell the $9.99 digital cards?

 

I would think that this might actually be a good time to evolve a little, sell the digiital product. Even if the LCS's do not get on board with the digital offerings, people that want the digital books are still going to buy them.

 

I'm thinking the purist collectors are still going to want floppies. The floppy is the first print original and everything else is just a reprint right?

 

I mean it's not going cause the publishers (key word being they are in the business to publish) to stop publishing floppies.

 

I don't know...anyone else want to chime in on this topic. I'm sure I'm not exactly cohesive in my presentation, but I think you kind of get my argument.

 

Now keep in mind, every month I read The Walking Dead preview online and still buy 3-5 copies of the floppy. (depending on my mood)

 

If monthly floppy readers switch to digital comic shops will go out of business en masse. Why would Marvel, et al. pay a middleman to distribute digital when they can sell the downloads directly or maybe through amazon and give amazon a smaller % of the price than a shop gets. the % of monthly buyers who really care about "1st print" or 9.8s on what is likely to be worth less as a back issue in 6 months is pretty small nowadays. I see folks picking up their monthly pile and they don't care about condition...I've seen plenty of people turn down the free bag and board my shops give with each book...they're going to read them and toss them in a box. they aren't collectors looking for re-sale. some of these people will want to stick with the 'feel" of comics, but some just want the stories, and if they can pay $9.99 for a month of marvel vs. $300 for Marvel's floppies, they will do it in a heartbeat. Unless readership goes up 3000% there is no way the comic shops can break even under that scenario.

It doesn't matter though. With the internet I think brick and mortar shops are dinosaurs waiting for a meteor to strike them down. Don't get me wrong, I like being able to talk comics in person with someone, I like bargain bins, and I like getting my supplies without paying astronomical shipping charges, but that alone will not support a comic shop either. Realistically, even for floppy readers and collectors of current and back issues, the deals are better online, message board forums have provided me with more information and conversation about comics than any shop could ever, and we're not stuck with what's on the limited shelf space of the shack downtown anymore. Comic dealers can cut overhead and continue to sell online but the physical comic store as we know it is dead with or without digital download. The monthly comic itself may not be far behind.

[conditionfreak]

Space is a huge thing to collectors that have large collections. Especially in this economy.

 

I know there are lots of collectors here that have small to medium size collections. But there are many here that have very large collections. For those of us with 10-20 thousand books (and figures, statues, toys, etc), space is a big factor. I personally have one large room filled with comic stuff and another half filled with comic stuff. In addition to my hardback book collection that is on various bookshelfs around the entire house.

 

Additionally, in this economy, many young adults are staying with mom and dad far beyond the ages that were traditionally when they left the "nest". Making space an even bigger concern. Not to mention how many collectors there are in New York, with comics jammed into closets and under their beds.

 

Digital helps with space concerns tremendously. Will digital affect the buying/collecting habits of those in New York or apartments anywhere? I don't know. I would assume (I know, I know, assuming is a big mistake on these here boards), that the "true" collectors have more than just one or two hundred books. So maybe those with small collections will be the first to convert to digital.

 

(I threw that "true collector" thing in there, in homage to mmedhy, and to induce debate)

[cd4ever]

i will never buy a digital download of a comic book. never.

 

 

Would you read it for free?

 

no. if floppies go away there's a back issue library of thousands and thousands of terrific comics, more than i'd ever be able to read in this lifetime, availabe for dirt cheap; that's how i'd get my fix. won't be of much help to my LCS tho. a digital comic and I will never become acquainted.

 

I think I'm pretty much the same. I've tried to read comics on my computer but I don't like it...I like the way comics look printed on paper, I like the way they smell and feel. My wife on the other hand absolutely LOVES reading Manga on her Kindle

Manga on a kindle?? Hmm, I need to look into that.

[Logan510]

i will never buy a digital download of a comic book. never.

 

 

Would you read it for free?

 

no. if floppies go away there's a back issue library of thousands and thousands of terrific comics, more than i'd ever be able to read in this lifetime, availabe for dirt cheap; that's how i'd get my fix. won't be of much help to my LCS tho. a digital comic and I will never become acquainted.

 

I think I'm pretty much the same. I've tried to read comics on my computer but I don't like it...I like the way comics look printed on paper, I like the way they smell and feel. My wife on the other hand absolutely LOVES reading Manga on her Kindle

Manga on a kindle?? Hmm, I need to look into that.

 

She loves it. He commute to work is a little over an hour on the train each way, so she gets a lot of reading done every day (thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

Digital comics are a waste of my time.

 

Haven't ever bought one, never will.

 

I buy digital music, and it annoys me. YES, YES, I can make backups, but the reality is this: if I buy a physical copy, I have a physical copy. If my computer explodes, or is totally hacked, I will still have a physical copy. All that digital stuff blinks out of existence, and is gone.

 

That's why I still have paper copies of my bills sent to me, despite the idjits demanding I go "paperless." If I want to look up what I bought back in 1999, I still have my check register. Online? My bank account goes back 18 months. Gee, that's useful. And I SERIOUSLY doubt that BOFA's systems are backed up to triple redundancy, gov't style.

 

[dupont2005]

Digital comics are a waste of my time.

 

Haven't ever bought one, never will.

 

I buy digital music, and it annoys me. YES, YES, I can make backups, but the reality is this: if I buy a physical copy, I have a physical copy. If my computer explodes, or is totally hacked, I will still have a physical copy. All that digital stuff blinks out of existence, and is gone.

 

That's why I still have paper copies of my bills sent to me, despite the idjits demanding I go "paperless." If I want to look up what I bought back in 1999, I still have my check register. Online? My bank account goes back 18 months. Gee, that's useful. And I SERIOUSLY doubt that BOFA's systems are backed up to triple redundancy, gov't style.

 

What if you weren't buying single downloads to store on your computer, but instead paying for access to a huge cloud based library that worked on any device you owned?

[the blob]

Space is a huge thing to collectors that have large collections. Especially in this economy.

 

I know there are lots of collectors here that have small to medium size collections. But there are many here that have very large collections. For those of us with 10-20 thousand books (and figures, statues, toys, etc), space is a big factor. I personally have one large room filled with comic stuff and another half filled with comic stuff. In addition to my hardback book collection that is on various bookshelfs around the entire house.

 

Additionally, in this economy, many young adults are staying with mom and dad far beyond the ages that were traditionally when they left the "nest". Making space an even bigger concern. Not to mention how many collectors there are in New York, with comics jammed into closets and under their beds.

 

Digital helps with space concerns tremendously. Will digital affect the buying/collecting habits of those in New York or apartments anywhere? I don't know. I would assume (I know, I know, assuming is a big mistake on these here boards), that the "true" collectors have more than just one or two hundred books. So maybe those with small collections will be the first to convert to digital.

 

(I threw that "true collector" thing in there, in homage to mmedhy, and to induce debate)

 

Now has never been a better time to buy a big house to store those comics in with all of that glut of housing around the country. I wish I had some money, though I already have the big house (in NYC to boot).

[the blob]

Space is a huge thing to collectors that have large collections. Especially in this economy.

 

I know there are lots of collectors here that have small to medium size collections. But there are many here that have very large collections. For those of us with 10-20 thousand books (and figures, statues, toys, etc), space is a big factor. I personally have one large room filled with comic stuff and another half filled with comic stuff. In addition to my hardback book collection that is on various bookshelfs around the entire house.

 

Additionally, in this economy, many young adults are staying with mom and dad far beyond the ages that were traditionally when they left the "nest". Making space an even bigger concern. Not to mention how many collectors there are in New York, with comics jammed into closets and under their beds.

 

Digital helps with space concerns tremendously. Will digital affect the buying/collecting habits of those in New York or apartments anywhere? I don't know. I would assume (I know, I know, assuming is a big mistake on these here boards), that the "true" collectors have more than just one or two hundred books. So maybe those with small collections will be the first to convert to digital.

 

(I threw that "true collector" thing in there, in homage to mmedhy, and to induce debate)

 

if they are "collectors", then I'm guessing they aren't so interested in digital either.

 

with that said, i don't understand this argument. a long box fits roughly 20 (TWENTY) years worth of your favorite title, bagged and boarded. take out the boards, etc. and it's 25 years, perhaps more, including annuals.

 

if you buy 25 titles a month I guess you fill up a long box a year, roughly. yes, it adds up over a lifetime.

 

it's only if you''re a box hunter like me and wind up bargain binning 20-200 back issues a week do you fill up your little house pretty quickly, and clearly I'm doing that as some sort of mentally disturbed "collector", so digital downloads don't mean much.

 

mind you, i'm not saying i don't understand the appeal. if marvel is really stupid enough to offer all of its monthly titles for $9.99/mo, then plenty of people will go that route. i just don't see how that's going to be viable for them unless they cut down to 5 or 6 monthly titles. they still need to pay people to produce them.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Digital comics are a waste of my time.

 

Haven't ever bought one, never will.

 

I buy digital music, and it annoys me. YES, YES, I can make backups, but the reality is this: if I buy a physical copy, I have a physical copy. If my computer explodes, or is totally hacked, I will still have a physical copy. All that digital stuff blinks out of existence, and is gone.

 

That's why I still have paper copies of my bills sent to me, despite the idjits demanding I go "paperless." If I want to look up what I bought back in 1999, I still have my check register. Online? My bank account goes back 18 months. Gee, that's useful. And I SERIOUSLY doubt that BOFA's systems are backed up to triple redundancy, gov't style.

 

What if you weren't buying single downloads to store on your computer, but instead paying for access to a huge cloud based library that worked on any device you owned?

 

Because I don't trust what I cannot control.

 

What's to stop the "cloud" from failing? What's to stop the controllers of the "cloud" from targeting your personal information?

 

With hard copies, I am in complete control. If my copy breaks, I can go buy another. If my device breaks, I can go buy another. I cannot "make" a digital service work if it chooses not to.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Besides...my eyesight is already going; I don't need to be squinting at my monitor to read the latest "comic book."

 

"But there's Kindle!"

 

Yes, and if I sit on that, I've just wasted $130.

 

If I sit on a $4 copy of Spidey. I have wasted nothing. In fact, I can sit on it for hours, bounce up and down on it, stomp on it, toss around the front yard for a while...still got the story, right there.

 

[the blob]

Okay, from a consumer perspective I was at a Toys R Us buying stuff for the kiddo recently and I see these little cards for $9.99 each that will allow me to get all the digital comics I want from Marvel for one full month. That's substantially lower than what I spend on Marvels at the LCS in the same given time frame.

 

I fully want to support my LCS, I will often sell books there on consignment instead of posting them on ebay...or here on the boards. However, the guy running the shop and I don't blame him at all, sees no upside for him on this digital format. Says it's pretty much cutting his own throat by supporting the digital format.

 

I've been thinking about this quite a bit, especially with 52 new number 1's coming from DC. I think it might be just another way to sell the product and not necessarily cutting one's own throat. Same store sells TPBs, so why not sell the $9.99 digital cards?

 

I would think that this might actually be a good time to evolve a little, sell the digiital product. Even if the LCS's do not get on board with the digital offerings, people that want the digital books are still going to buy them.

 

I'm thinking the purist collectors are still going to want floppies. The floppy is the first print original and everything else is just a reprint right?

 

I mean it's not going cause the publishers (key word being they are in the business to publish) to stop publishing floppies.

 

I don't know...anyone else want to chime in on this topic. I'm sure I'm not exactly cohesive in my presentation, but I think you kind of get my argument.

 

Now keep in mind, every month I read The Walking Dead preview online and still buy 3-5 copies of the floppy. (depending on my mood)

 

If monthly floppy readers switch to digital comic shops will go out of business en masse. Why would Marvel, et al. pay a middleman to distribute digital when they can sell the downloads directly or maybe through amazon and give amazon a smaller % of the price than a shop gets. the % of monthly buyers who really care about "1st print" or 9.8s on what is likely to be worth less as a back issue in 6 months is pretty small nowadays. I see folks picking up their monthly pile and they don't care about condition...I've seen plenty of people turn down the free bag and board my shops give with each book...they're going to read them and toss them in a box. they aren't collectors looking for re-sale. some of these people will want to stick with the 'feel" of comics, but some just want the stories, and if they can pay $9.99 for a month of marvel vs. $300 for Marvel's floppies, they will do it in a heartbeat. Unless readership goes up 3000% there is no way the comic shops can break even under that scenario.

It doesn't matter though. With the internet I think brick and mortar shops are dinosaurs waiting for a meteor to strike them down. Don't get me wrong, I like being able to talk comics in person with someone, I like bargain bins, and I like getting my supplies without paying astronomical shipping charges, but that alone will not support a comic shop either. Realistically, even for floppy readers and collectors of current and back issues, the deals are better online, message board forums have provided me with more information and conversation about comics than any shop could ever, and we're not stuck with what's on the limited shelf space of the shack downtown anymore. Comic dealers can cut overhead and continue to sell online but the physical comic store as we know it is dead with or without digital download. The monthly comic itself may not be far behind.

 

Comic shops have survived 12 years of the interweb (they closed en masse in 1999/2000 because new comic sales tanked, with another burst of closings occuring because ebay hurt their back issue sales, but i think that was a long time ago). Ebay might even be taking a step back as the place folks buy back issues. I don't think ebay is cutting into back issue sales at the B&M any more than it did 5 or 6 years ago. In fact, I prefer to buy live at a shop or a show more than I did 5-10 years ago. Digital comics nibbling at the edges, a lousy economy, $3-$5 cover prices and comic publishers' near total failure to create long-term collectors/readers among kids born after 1988 or so (I'm not talking about a lot...if they had created 30,000 out of that group it would be enough to replace baby boomers who might be keeling over early) have done it.

[dupont2005]

Every comic shop within an 80 mile radius of me closed down. I don't know about surviving, maybe just taking a really long time to breathe it's last breath.

[the blob]

I'm saying I don't think it's the internet that's doing it at this point. There are other factors in play. let's face it, the economy is terrible. I have been pretty sheltered, but I got hit with a COLA freeze and in the last 4 years it has cost me over $30K, but I guess I should be happy to have a job.

 

And how terrible is the economy around you? Aren't you in a part of CA with huge foreclosure problems being a semi "ex-urb" of LA or something. let's face it, $3-$5 comics are luxuries as are $2 comic downloads if they ultimately try to sell them per issue at only a bit less than a hard copy.

[The Troll King]

My concern with digital comics is that the art will most likely all become digital also.

 

This is already starting to happen with some of them. This will eventually eliminate many comic artists who would be replaced with digital artists.

 

Once you eliminate the "hand-drawn" comic art you also eliminate another aspect of collecting that I enjoy, collecting comic art!

 

With nothing "hard" to sell artists will be making less money which will result in less new artists coming into the field which will further result in even less artists available to produce the books. This could have a downward spiral effect until there is no one producing comics in any format, digital or otherwise.

 

With the drawing pads and such now easily available and at a much cheaper price point than they were even 4 years ago I fear this is what will become of comics.

 

Keep in mind, less artists, less comics, less new readers, less vintage collectors as we all die off, and gone is the hobby the way of stamp collecting or bottle cap collecting.

[dupont2005]

I don't see why the art would change. Hand drawn comic art is already scanned into a computer before it's printed on paper. Seems like it would be the same except instead of printing on paper they'll just upload it to a site.

[dupont2005]

And how terrible is the economy around you? Aren't you in a part of CA with huge foreclosure problems being a semi "ex-urb" of LA or something. let's face it, $3-$5 comics are luxuries as are $2 comic downloads if they ultimately try to sell them per issue at only a bit less than a hard copy.

Sure, things got bad and are still recovering. The economy going to is fairly recent, all my childhood LCS's closing up shop has been a long going gradual trend.

[combiner1]

one would also argue...why hire an artist at all. why not just hire a writer and just start writing stories about spidey, supes, bats...etc.....

 

i see a trends where a famous comics artist is trying to write stories, Tony Daniel, Ethan Van Sciver, as well as famous names like Todd MacFarlene and Neil Adams, I think even George Perez at one time tried writing

[ComicConnoisseur]

People wanting to buy digital comics are used to get access and pay for the content online. There is no way that they would: 1) get into their car and drive to the store to 2) buy a digital access code card so that 3) they can download content into their machines. And I am sure that publishers know that. In order to satisfy this market, access has to be instant and I am afraid that it will mostly leave the retailer out. Given this, there is no reason why they shouldn't offer those cards as a small wait to participate in the new channel but I fear they are not going to see any of the benefits.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Okay, from a consumer perspective I was at a Toys R Us buying stuff for the kiddo recently and I see these little cards for $9.99 each that will allow me to get all the digital comics I want from Marvel for one full month. That's substantially lower than what I spend on Marvels at the LCS in the same given time frame.

 

I fully want to support my LCS, I will often sell books there on consignment instead of posting them on ebay...or here on the boards. However, the guy running the shop and I don't blame him at all, sees no upside for him on this digital format. Says it's pretty much cutting his own throat by supporting the digital format.

 

I've been thinking about this quite a bit, especially with 52 new number 1's coming from DC. I think it might be just another way to sell the product and not necessarily cutting one's own throat. Same store sells TPBs, so why not sell the $9.99 digital cards?

 

I would think that this might actually be a good time to evolve a little, sell the digiital product. Even if the LCS's do not get on board with the digital offerings, people that want the digital books are still going to buy them.

 

I'm thinking the purist collectors are still going to want floppies. The floppy is the first print original and everything else is just a reprint right?

 

I mean it's not going cause the publishers (key word being they are in the business to publish) to stop publishing floppies.

 

I don't know...anyone else want to chime in on this topic. I'm sure I'm not exactly cohesive in my presentation, but I think you kind of get my argument.

 

Now keep in mind, every month I read The Walking Dead preview online and still buy 3-5 copies of the floppy. (depending on my mood)

 

If monthly floppy readers switch to digital comic shops will go out of business en masse. Why would Marvel, et al. pay a middleman to distribute digital when they can sell the downloads directly or maybe through amazon and give amazon a smaller % of the price than a shop gets. the % of monthly buyers who really care about "1st print" or 9.8s on what is likely to be worth less as a back issue in 6 months is pretty small nowadays. I see folks picking up their monthly pile and they don't care about condition...I've seen plenty of people turn down the free bag and board my shops give with each book...they're going to read them and toss them in a box. they aren't collectors looking for re-sale. some of these people will want to stick with the 'feel" of comics, but some just want the stories, and if they can pay $9.99 for a month of marvel vs. $300 for Marvel's floppies, they will do it in a heartbeat. Unless readership goes up 3000% there is no way the comic shops can break even under that scenario.

It doesn't matter though. With the internet I think brick and mortar shops are dinosaurs waiting for a meteor to strike them down. Don't get me wrong, I like being able to talk comics in person with someone, I like bargain bins, and I like getting my supplies without paying astronomical shipping charges, but that alone will not support a comic shop either. Realistically, even for floppy readers and collectors of current and back issues, the deals are better online, message board forums have provided me with more information and conversation about comics than any shop could ever, and we're not stuck with what's on the limited shelf space of the shack downtown anymore. Comic dealers can cut overhead and continue to sell online but the physical comic store as we know it is dead with or without digital download. The monthly comic itself may not be far behind.

 

Comic shops have survived 12 years of the interweb (they closed en masse in 1999/2000 because new comic sales tanked, with another burst of closings occuring because ebay hurt their back issue sales, but i think that was a long time ago). Ebay might even be taking a step back as the place folks buy back issues. I don't think ebay is cutting into back issue sales at the B&M any more than it did 5 or 6 years ago. In fact, I prefer to buy live at a shop or a show more than I did 5-10 years ago. Digital comics nibbling at the edges, a lousy economy, $3-$5 cover prices and comic publishers' near total failure to create long-term collectors/readers among kids born after 1988 or so (I'm not talking about a lot...if they had created 30,000 out of that group it would be enough to replace baby boomers who might be keeling over early) have done it.

I remember being a big time dvd collector 5 years ago and mentioning that dvds would be replaced by streaming videos,and most people over at dvd talk disagreed with me. Here we are 5 years later, and dvds are going the way of cds. It`s going to happen to the monthly comic as well. It might take a little longer, but eventually the downloading of comics books will be the major way to read them. Of course I don`t like it ,but just as I saw the writing on the wall with dvds I see the writing on wall with monthly floppies. Believe me when I brought this up years ago on dvd talk most of the members over there thought I was too optimistic about streaming dvd`s, and they gave me all the same arguments such as how there wasn`t enough bandwidth to download instantly,how I rather own the dvd and hold it in my possession,how I spent thousands on my dvd collection and there is no way I am switching to download streaming, and the most important how Dvd`s are much too popular and ingrained in pop culture so they are immune to change. Well we all know what happened.

[dupont2005]

I used to think I would never switch to digital for movies or music, now I avoid DVD and CD physical copies like the plague. If Netflix doesn't carry something I'll go buy it if I have to see it. I have very few keeper DVD's. If there is a CD I want that iTunes doesn't carry I'll buy it, rip it, and sell it on eBay. I actually get pissed off and send angry e-mails to music artists who don't have their stuff on iTunes

 

I still really love collecting comics. I wouldn't go all digital ever, but I do see a good chunk of my mainstream stuff being dropped for digital if it became more convenient for me. Pretty much just Usagi Yojimbo and Love And Rockets, maybe Walking Dead in print and the rest digital. I would still continue with my Copper Age collecting though.