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Sketch Covers vs Original Art Debate

Started by jonjesper,

117 posts in this topic

Terry Doyle

Terry Doyle

Posted
Posted
Please chime in, or at the very least give a read through. Interesting topic and one that clearly has sides drawn...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5097578&fpart=1

 

I got as far as page 2 on that thread.

 

Then I read some joker say,

 

"in my opinion at some point sketch covers with their certification will kill the oa market"

 

. . . and I gave the thread up as a bad joke.

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Weird Paper

Weird Paper

Posted
Posted
Please chime in, or at the very least give a read through. Interesting topic and one that clearly has sides drawn...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5097578&fpart=1

 

I got as far as page 2 on that thread.

 

Then I read some joker say,

 

"in my opinion at some point sketch covers with their certification will kill the oa market"

 

. . . and I gave the thread up as a bad joke.

Wow, I had to go back and read that... wow... That's gotta be one of the spooniest spooning, spoon-spoon things I've ever seen anyone spooning post.

Spoon... just spoon.

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SC in SC

SC in SC

Posted
Posted

It was always going toward that because you just can't compare sketch covers to published art. They are two very different types of art. It's like comparing etchings to oil paintings. You can do it, but they are very different pieces of art.

 

Sketch Covers vs Commissions are more similar (the same thing I would say, since sketch covers ARE commissioned).

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seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted
I see some the "louder" elements have changed their tone and are now talking about Sketch covers vs commissions instead of Sketch covers vs Oa. hm

 

That is the only way there can be any meaningful discussion. Sketch covers are a type of commission. Published covers, splashes and panel pages were, are and always will be the gold standard of OA. No one needs to pound their chest about it. It is what it is.

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
I see some the "louder" elements have changed their tone and are now talking about Sketch covers vs commissions instead of Sketch covers vs Oa. hm

 

That is the only way there can be any meaningful discussion. Sketch covers are a type of commission. Published covers, splashes and panel pages were, are and always will be the gold standard of OA. No one needs to pound their chest about it. It is what it is.

 

 

True,

I think Bill just overstated/misstated/mistak-o-stated his position when he put sketch covers on one side and "OA" on the other.

 

It's actually an interesting discussion when the parameters are set logically.

 

 

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Pirate

Pirate

Posted
Posted

Now he has moved onto the insults and he has friends who forgot more than we know blah blah blah instead of admitting he was wrong. I'm just glad the sketchies are doing their thing and leaving the regular OA alone. More for me.

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Weird Paper

Weird Paper

Posted
Posted
I see some the "louder" elements have changed their tone and are now talking about Sketch covers vs commissions instead of Sketch covers vs Oa. hm

 

That is the only way there can be any meaningful discussion. Sketch covers are a type of commission. Published covers, splashes and panel pages were, are and always will be the gold standard of OA. No one needs to pound their chest about it. It is what it is.

It doesn't have to be a debate. It's like arguing over whose favorite football team is better. (Of course one person is arguing for the KC Chiefs and the other for the Patriots.) But the idea that by virtue of the authentication process, sketch covers are going to run published OA out of town is just absurd. There's an enormous amount of original comic art out there in the hobby, and I'd feel confident saying that very little of it is likely forged or fakes. Not every seller is the Gallery on Baum. Even if we reach a day when forgeries become a major issue in the hobby, we'll get authentication services before we get a mass exodus from printed OA.
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innocuous

innocuous

Posted
Posted

Or, there are sketchies who dabble in the OA market as well. :hi:

 

I think someone made a point about sketches being a stepping stone to published pieces. That is certainly the case with me. You can't help but flip through the portfolios while waiting to speak with an artist. Sooner or later, you stop and ask, "how much?"

 

Funny thing, I could never get on the commission list for Darwyn Cooke at a convention, so I ended up buying a cover instead. It's the only piece hanging in the house NOT hidden away in the comic room or kids room.

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Pirate

Pirate

Posted
Posted
Or, there are sketchies who dabble in the OA market as well. :hi:

 

I think someone made a point about sketches being a stepping stone to published pieces. That is certainly the case with me. You can't help but flip through the portfolios while waiting to speak with an artist. Sooner or later, you stop and ask, "how much?"

 

Funny thing, I could never get on the commission list for Darwyn Cooke at a convention, so I ended up buying a cover instead. It's the only piece hanging in the house NOT hidden away in the comic room or kids room.

 

and I'm going to assume you are on the OA collectors side of the fence. Sketchies are the ones who don't have any OA but cover sketches that are barking about sketches being the best.

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Terry Doyle

Terry Doyle

Posted
Posted
Please chime in, or at the very least give a read through. Interesting topic and one that clearly has sides drawn...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5097578&fpart=1

 

I got as far as page 2 on that thread.

 

Then I read some joker say,

 

"in my opinion at some point sketch covers with their certification will kill the oa market"

 

. . . and I gave the thread up as a bad joke.

Wow, I had to go back and read that... wow... That's gotta be one of the spooniest spooning, spoon-spoon things I've ever seen anyone spooning post.

Spoon... just spoon.

 

Maybe he posted that stuff after a heavy night on the moonshine triple-x? (shrug)

 

t5rfyb.jpg

 

 

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AKA Rick

AKA Rick

Posted
Posted

I personally believe there's a far greater chance of an unscrupulous CGC witness / authenticator to let forgeries pass through, than the odds of an uncertified published (not commissions or sketches) piece of original art being forged and fake.

 

I thought I heard of some CGC grading integrity issues before of graders missing trimming on some major books. I also see how the CGC witness system works at conventions for those yellow labels. When you place a human being into a system, inherently the system is exposed to flaws of neglect as well as opportunistic exploitation, abuse and even fraud. I'm not even sure who or how witnesses are actually selected. Is there a certification process and background check on individuals? Are there contracts with criminal penalties for engaging in purposeful wrong-doing?

 

So, those who unconditionally tout the good name of CGC (even 'tho this is a CGC board) as being the "be all end all" with iron clad certification and are concerned with potential issues within the published original art arena might want to look closer at their own homes before evaluating their neighbors I guess. CGC is great, but it's not perfect. Even the grading system is a tad subjective, and using different standards based on the age of a book versus a flat single standard baffles me, just as charging a higher rate to grade a book of more value. Grading should be based on page counts if anything, not the value. Value has nothing to do with evaluating and that process.

 

It's been my experience that the hobbiests within the published original art marketplace generally has high integrity (where else does, when theft of a piece of art occur do strangers within the community help each other out alert others - case in point with the recent Brent Anderson postings). Published art (again, as opposed to commissions and sketches) are truly one-of-a-kind and if there were any forgeries of major pieces (after all, I don't think anyone would take the time to forge "Peter Porker, The Spectacular Spider-Man Issue #14 Page #4") entering the market (short of private sales which fraud happens within any industry) for the most part, the buyer would more likely be experienced and also, if put on auction, the original owner or thsoe knowing the history of the piece would raise any red flags.

 

So... yeah... Sketch Covers are nice and a great bridge for comic book collectors to also indulge in original artwork, so I like that part of the hobby still since it generates interest and makes people happy. As for the prices and values, everything will follow the supply/demand chain and the customers golden rule is, "if you don't like the price, don't buy it"

 

That's my opinion at least...

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gooch

gooch

Posted
Posted

Wow.

 

Read both sides on this thread. I'm mainly a commissioner of 11 by 17 images with the occasional page here and there. I can see where the appeal of sketch cover come from. Smaller size with the Logo on it where you can make your own comic book cover. Really cool.

 

What i'm not really feeling is that the feeling it has to be "cgc" to be an authentic sketch by some collectors.

 

And at times to me, it seems the grade of the book is better than the actual sketch on the book. Maybe the artist made a ding or dent in it. I could care less especially if the artwork is fine.

 

Usually with my big commissions it's on 11 by 17 board. I like the size and feel of the briston. Have a bunch of mine framed in my home office.

 

The smaller or less detailed commissions/sketches are in my sketchbook. I've had the book for many years and just by looking at the cover and back it's been pretty beaten up from being mailed and other assorted travels. However I've got some nice art in there frooom Jim Lee, Steve Mcniven etc etc. The corners have dings on it but It doesn't effect the art so I really don't care.

 

My two cents

Mike

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=157

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innocuous

innocuous

Posted
Posted
Or, there are sketchies who dabble in the OA market as well. :hi:

 

I think someone made a point about sketches being a stepping stone to published pieces. That is certainly the case with me. You can't help but flip through the portfolios while waiting to speak with an artist. Sooner or later, you stop and ask, "how much?"

 

Funny thing, I could never get on the commission list for Darwyn Cooke at a convention, so I ended up buying a cover instead. It's the only piece hanging in the house NOT hidden away in the comic room or kids room.

 

and I'm going to assume you are on the OA collectors side of the fence. Sketchies are the ones who don't have any OA but cover sketches that are barking about sketches being the best.

By definition, both are OA.

 

But, to answer the question, I do NOT own any sketch covers. But, I do own a number of commissioned sketches on backing boards, of which most are certified by CGC.

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