cgc & comic shops

[goldust40]

why do you consider them to be good because they don't know about or deal with cgc books ?

 

Because it was the advent of CGC and slabbing that drove me out of collecting and still, IMHO, ruins most of the fun that it used to be. I realize not everyone agrees. But it's nice to be in a place where you actually, y'know, touch the comic books. And make up your own mind about what grade something might be.

 

The slabs look cool though.

 

If the dealer doesn't even know about slabs, though, that's not exactly a confidence builder.

 

CGC books probably represent less than 1% volume of books being sold in the larger market. They are extremely niche. We tend to forget that here in our little enclave.

 

Perhaps, but anything of genuine quality, expense or scarcity will end up in a slab. That 1% may be of the population, but it's a much higher percentage of market turnover.

[kelholt]

Yeah, in all my travels, I've seen CGC books in very few LCSs. Mostly, the comments are negative towards slabs. Most of it sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

+1

 

[stroszek]

My friend has run my LCS for over 30 years now and he admits he has lost his passion for collecting and back issue sales because of CGC. He will sell slabs on commission from his customers, but he has never sent a book in to them nor will he (I imagine he would change his tune if he somehow got his hands on a cheap AF15, of course.) He only occasionally gets in raw books that would be valuable/high grade enough to send in to CGC and prices them according from the guide and according to his own grading standards. I wish more (all) stores were like that.

 

 

 

 

I don't think the negative sentiment towards slabs is sour grapes - it's towards the whole concept of slabbing. When I bought my issue of FF 1 long ago, I took it home that day and read it very carefully. It was a tremendous pleasure leafing through a copy of the book that launched Marvel's Silver Age, a copy that was actually on the shelf that day and still a mighty nice-lookin' copy at that. I have indeed slabbed it and when I take it out, I wonder "What's the point? It's just sitting there in a slab?" It is not practical to just take it out and then pay again to have it reslabbed if I need to resell it later.

 

 

Also I think CGC is directly responsible (because of "definitive" grading) for the insane price differences between high grades on key books. A 9.4 going for 3 times a 9.2, a 9.6 going for double that. Etc. That has ruined the fun and practicality of collecting for a lot of folks who liked to collect high grade stuff.

 

The reliability is a big plus, I grant.

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

I don't think the negative sentiment towards slabs is sour grapes - it's towards the whole concept of slabbing. When I bought my issue of FF 1 long ago, I took it home that day and read it very carefully. It was a tremendous pleasure leafing through a copy of the book that launched Marvel's Silver Age, a copy that was actually on the shelf that day and still a mighty nice-lookin' copy at that. I have indeed slabbed it and when I take it out, I wonder "What's the point? It's just sitting there in a slab?" It is not practical to just take it out and then pay again to have it reslabbed if I need to resell it later.

 

I only have a few books CGC'd - but this actually makes me think I'd better go home and leaf through my FF48 and other books of that era. I don't mind slabs, I think they are cool and I love how they are accurately graded and protected.

 

I knew a guy that would bend books as he flipped through people's collections, trying to give spine damage on purpose (by pulling up the book halfway, then bending it back just enough to bend the spine, but not crease the backer board). Every time I think of showing my valuable key books to someone, I think of that guy and I am quite pleased that CGC is around. I am totally ok slabbing a pricey key book and when the desire comes to read it, I'll grab me a copy of The Essential ... Marvel TPB. The tangible appreciation for me is owning it, not necessarily reading it.

[valiantman]

"Comics are meant to be read"

"Coins are meant to be spent"

"Stamps are meant to be mailed"

 

If you're collecting ANY of these, and you care about the monetary factors, you're not reading, spending, or mailing any item with significant value.

 

If you don't care about the monetary factors, read, spend, and mail away.

 

The problem is that EVERYTHING in an LCS has a monetary factor, but somehow "comics are meant to be read" is supposed to override that (at least until you leave the store)?

 

Imagine a used car dealer who refuses to let anyone who's certified (and doesn't work for him) inspect a car before you buy it.

[stroszek]

 

The problem is that EVERYTHING in an LCS has a monetary factor, but somehow "comics are meant to be read" is supposed to override that (at least until you leave the store)?

 

Imagine a used car dealer who refuses to let anyone who's certified (and doesn't work for him) inspect a car before you buy it.

 

That analogy only holds out if you think CGC is the definitive inspector, that they're the only "certified" inspectors. And the hobby has determined that they are. I prefer my LCS owner's grading standards to theirs. CGC hammers a book for a tiny BC stain, but permits multiple spine tics in high grade. One clearly visible spine tic and you're maxing out at NM- for me, but CGC says differently and therefore it is so and the entire hobby's pricing standards are determined by it.

 

I like the idea of an "inspector" to check for restoration, absolutely. That's the biggest plus. For grading? Not so much.

[USArmyParatrooper]

why do you consider them to be good because they don't know about or deal with cgc books ?

 

Because it was the advent of CGC and slabbing that drove me out of collecting and still, IMHO, ruins most of the fun that it used to be. I realize not everyone agrees. But it's nice to be in a place where you actually, y'know, touch the comic books. And make up your own mind about what grade something might be.

 

The slabs look cool though.

 

If the dealer doesn't even know about slabs, though, that's not exactly a confidence builder.

 

CGC books probably represent less than 1% volume of books being sold in the larger market. They are extremely niche. We tend to forget that here in our little enclave.

 

Mmmmm maybe when you include stacks and stacks of new comics hitting the shelf every week. They really aren't that niche. I can see a casual comic collector not knowing, but If a freaking dealer doesn't know about CGC there's something seriously wrong.

 

 

[oakman29]

 

The problem is that EVERYTHING in an LCS has a monetary factor, but somehow "comics are meant to be read" is supposed to override that (at least until you leave the store)?

 

Imagine a used car dealer who refuses to let anyone who's certified (and doesn't work for him) inspect a car before you buy it.

 

That analogy only holds out if you think CGC is the definitive inspector, that they're the only "certified" inspectors. And the hobby has determined that they are. I prefer my LCS owner's grading standards to theirs. CGC hammers a book for a tiny BC stain, but permits multiple spine tics in high grade. One clearly visible spine tic and you're maxing out at NM- for me, but CGC says differently and therefore it is so and the entire hobby's pricing standards are determined by it.

 

I like the idea of an "inspector" to check for restoration, absolutely. That's the biggest plus. For grading? Not so much.

Then maybe this forum isn't for you,here's one that hates CGC'd books.You might be happy there.

http://www.comiccollectorlive.com/

[stroszek]

I didn't realize there was an "official" pro-CGC position here though I guess considering how I found the board, I should assume it.

 

I don't hate CGC, but I also don't like a lot of what's happened to the hobby since they started. I also really like the boards so far, so I think I'll stick for a while.

 

 

[The Amazing Chump]

I only have a few books CGC'd - but this actually makes me think I'd better go home and leaf through my FF48 and other books of that era. I don't mind slabs, I think they are cool and I love how they are accurately graded and protected.

 

I knew a guy that would bend books as he flipped through people's collections, trying to give spine damage on purpose (by pulling up the book halfway, then bending it back just enough to bend the spine, but not crease the backer board). Every time I think of showing my valuable key books to someone, I think of that guy and I am quite pleased that CGC is around. I am totally ok slabbing a pricey key book and when the desire comes to read it, I'll grab me a copy of The Essential ... Marvel TPB. The tangible appreciation for me is owning it, not necessarily reading it.

 

Ever get an explanation as to why? Just a personality flaw, didn't want others to have nice things, or did he have a justification (even if it only makes sense to him) for being a shnozzle?

[Dr. Balls]

Ever get an explanation as to why? Just a personality flaw, didn't want others to have nice things, or did he have a justification (even if it only makes sense to him) for being a shnozzle?

 

I think secretly he didn't want others to have nice books, so he damaged them in a passive aggressive way. The two times I saw him do it, the owner of the books wasn't looking at him while he did it - I was the only person to see him do it. I actually knew both of them, so I really didn't know what to say or do. So I just filed it in my brain for future reference!

[Cat-Man_America]

I didn't realize there was an "official" pro-CGC position here though I guess considering how I found the board, I should assume it.

 

Ya think?

 

 

 

I don't hate CGC, but I also don't like a lot of what's happened to the hobby since they started. I also really like the boards so far, so I think I'll stick for a while.

 

 

Good for you, and WTTB! ...I hope you stick around, share your views and learn from others.

 

Just a heads-up. You'll probably get a bit more empathy for your anti-slabbing position here in General than in the Gold and Silver Age forums (after all, General is CGC's Monkey House forum and around here folks here just luv controversy).

 

Getting back on point though, my experience has been just the opposite of yours. If it hadn't been for CGC holders and certification I might not have gotten back into collecting comics at all.

 

My take on CGC slabbed versus raw books:

 

Most experienced collectors can grade their raw comics just fine, but having cross referenced, unbiased grading provides an added level of trust and legitimacy to the hobby. CGC makes it clear up front that their grading standards are still opinions, but having multi-grader checking provides a level of certified consistency to the comic collector. Finally, the holders offer a fair degree of protection and stabilization for books.

 

I do own raw books as well, but yes, I'm a fan of CGC slabs. (thumbs u

[thehumantorch]

 

The problem is that EVERYTHING in an LCS has a monetary factor, but somehow "comics are meant to be read" is supposed to override that (at least until you leave the store)?

 

Imagine a used car dealer who refuses to let anyone who's certified (and doesn't work for him) inspect a car before you buy it.

 

That analogy only holds out if you think CGC is the definitive inspector, that they're the only "certified" inspectors. And the hobby has determined that they are. I prefer my LCS owner's grading standards to theirs. CGC hammers a book for a tiny BC stain, but permits multiple spine tics in high grade. One clearly visible spine tic and you're maxing out at NM- for me, but CGC says differently and therefore it is so and the entire hobby's pricing standards are determined by it.

 

I like the idea of an "inspector" to check for restoration, absolutely. That's the biggest plus. For grading? Not so much.

 

Your opinion of CGC graded books is very common. I shared it until I found this place.

 

I can tell you that selling undislosed restored comics on ebay and some LCS

and at comic shows is a cottage industry. I have at least 3 high grade trimmed

books bought locally to prove it.

 

If you do some searching here you will find oddles of threads devoted to dishonest ebay sellers who buy restored CGC books and sell them raw

without declaring the restoration and bumping the grade up. And they sell

them to people who don't like CGC or people gambling on a steal of a deal.

 

Bottom line, people who frown on CGC and buy expensive comics are almost

certainly buying their fair share of overgraded restored books.

 

Your LCS may be very good graders but many aren't. It's fair to ask who

appointed CGC as the definative inspector. Many old school dealers have

resisted CGC stating they know how to grade. CGC isn't perfect but when

someone is selling a big book CGC is the trusted opinion.

[oakman29]

 

The problem is that EVERYTHING in an LCS has a monetary factor, but somehow "comics are meant to be read" is supposed to override that (at least until you leave the store)?

 

Imagine a used car dealer who refuses to let anyone who's certified (and doesn't work for him) inspect a car before you buy it.

 

That analogy only holds out if you think CGC is the definitive inspector, that they're the only "certified" inspectors. And the hobby has determined that they are. I prefer my LCS owner's grading standards to theirs. CGC hammers a book for a tiny BC stain, but permits multiple spine tics in high grade. One clearly visible spine tic and you're maxing out at NM- for me, but CGC says differently and therefore it is so and the entire hobby's pricing standards are determined by it.

 

I like the idea of an "inspector" to check for restoration, absolutely. That's the biggest plus. For grading? Not so much.

 

Your opinion of CGC graded books is very common. I shared it until I found this place.

 

I can tell you that selling undislosed restored comics on ebay and some LCS

and at comic shows is a cottage industry. I have at least 3 high grade trimmed

books bought locally to prove it.

 

If you do some searching here you will find oddles of threads devoted to dishonest ebay sellers who buy restored CGC books and sell them raw

without declaring the restoration and bumping the grade up. And they sell

them to people who don't like CGC or people gambling on a steal of a deal.

 

Bottom line, people who frown on CGC and buy expensive comics are almost

certainly buying their fair share of overgraded restored books.

 

Your LCS may be very good graders but many aren't. It's fair to ask who

appointed CGC as the definative inspector. Many old school dealers have

resisted CGC stating they know how to grade. CGC isn't perfect but when

someone is selling a big book CGC is the trusted opinion.

 

Well said David.

[zuulioso]

Ever get an explanation as to why? Just a personality flaw, didn't want others to have nice things, or did he have a justification (even if it only makes sense to him) for being a shnozzle?

 

I think secretly he didn't want others to have nice books, so he damaged them in a passive aggressive way. The two times I saw him do it, the owner of the books wasn't looking at him while he did it - I was the only person to see him do it. I actually knew both of them, so I really didn't know what to say or do. So I just filed it in my brain for future reference!

 

I think I would have had to say something. "Dude! WTF?! Be careful, you just bent that spine!"

 

At least calls him out and lets the owner know without being accusatory.

[Kal-El]

A recent topic here with a guy having problems with submitting books through his lcs & having problems with it has made me wonder if anyone else has ever had any other similar type of problems with subbing through a lcs ?.. anyone ?

 

The thread has sort of moved away from the original post but I'll address most of what I've read in relation to my experience. In regards to being against CGC or not wanting to get books graded that is never been an issues at my LCS (Bedrock City), I’ve had a bunch of books submitted through them and I’ve always only paid for what CGC charges for the books and they actually cover shipping cost. About grading and restoration issues, most of the books I submitted I originally purchased from the store and they’ve always come back the grade that I purchased them at or better (one time even 2-3 grades higher then what I purchased the book at ). When I first started collecting I visited many stores and there is a store here in Houston that is just terrible at customer service and interacted with me as if I wanted to rob them every time I went in there (people in Houston know which store I’m talking about) but it would be inappropriate to vilify them in this forum so they shall remain nameless. I just wanted to make clear that, yes, there are bad LCS’ out there but at the same time there are excellent ones as well.

[Flaming_Telepath]

why do you consider them to be good because they don't know about or deal with cgc books ?

 

Because it was the advent of CGC and slabbing that drove me out of collecting and still, IMHO, ruins most of the fun that it used to be. I realize not everyone agrees. But it's nice to be in a place where you actually, y'know, touch the comic books. And make up your own mind about what grade something might be.

 

The slabs look cool though.

 

If the dealer doesn't even know about slabs, though, that's not exactly a confidence builder.

 

CGC books probably represent less than 1% volume of books being sold in the larger market. They are extremely niche. We tend to forget that here in our little enclave.

 

Perhaps, but anything of genuine quality, expense or scarcity will end up in a slab. That 1% may be of the population, but it's a much higher percentage of market turnover.

 

Yea verily.

 

However, the average LCS has moved away from back issues in general, BA and older specifically. They've very much moved away from high value items. This is the arena where CGC really comes to the fore.

 

I'm not saying it's right that a LCS owner is fairly oblivious to CGC, but I can understand why that's the case.