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Ultimate Fantastic Four #1 - CGC 10.0

Started by mitol,

82 posts in this topic

lighthouse

lighthouse

Posted
Posted
Obviously the ultra-high CGC grades are done with artificial scarcity in mind, and like I've stated before, it's just good business.

 

Why is it artificial? Since I've never held a book that didn't have defects visible to the naked eye, the scarcity of a book with NO defect seems obvious to me.

 

I don't know how popular this reply will be... but that hasn't stopped me before...

 

I have found flaws on every 10 I have received... and flaws on every 9.9... and that's with the naked eye... I am not saying the flaws are huge, but anyone who owns a 10 can stare at it for 20 minutes and find subtle things that could be better.

 

10s are not flawless books... which may explain part of why it took so long before CGC gave a book a 10 when they started. The way I look at it, 10s are at a certain percentile level among books without handling damage. If you take 1000 copies that all have no handling damage whatsoever (only production imperfections), a certain number of those will get a 10, maybe it's 15 of them. And another number of them will get a 9.9, maybe 45-50 of them. The rest get 9.8s (assuming they don't have catastrophic production imperfections).

 

Out of those 15 that got a 10, there will be a best book and a worst book... so there certainly are 10s that are "better" than other 10s. I had two copies of 1602 #5 in CGC 10, and one of the copies looked ever-so-slightly better to me. But both of those copies were better than the 3 copies I got in 9.9. And all five of those were better than my 9.8s...

 

I have never heard this from CGC... but I have to assume that the standard for 10 and 9.9 is based on where this copy would rank among all the copies of all the comics out there... And as they grade more and more books, those rankings become easier to determine. A 10 doesn't have to a perfect book, or a flawless book. It has to be comparable to the hundreds of books that have already received a 10... Ultimately that's all that matters when you are talking about third-party grading. Is this 9.9 comparable to the other books sporting a 9.9 label? Is this 5.5 better than the books sporting a 5.0?...

 

And I agree that the scarcity isn't artificial... the dividing line may be artificial... but 9.9s and 10s are beautiful books, plain and simple. Better than the vast majority of books any collector will ever see...

 

And personally... I don't think $800-1000 is an excessive price for this book... I think there is room in the marketplace for 10 copies to sell above $300, and that lends to a higher price for the one or two copies likely to appear...

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lighthouse

lighthouse

Posted
Posted
Can you list the type and severity (in fractions of an inch, if you like) of the defects you can recall seeing on 10.0s? 893crossfingers-thumb.gif

 

This is going to sound unbelievably crass... and there just isn't any way around that...

 

I could... but it's not really in my best interests to do so... confused-smiley-013.gif

 

While I am actively screening moderns and selling them, it wouldn't be in my best interests to disclose any insights I have about what makes a 9.9 or a 10... If down the road I move away from doing so, and I don't expect to begin again, then I might talk about what I have seen...

 

The one suggestion I might make is to buy a few inexpensive 10s and spend some time looking them over. Realistically you are not going to lose money (other than shipping) unless the bottom falls out during the week after you bought them. Go buy some random CGC 10 for $140, take lots of notes and pictures, then resell it. Most you will likely lose is a few bucks plus shipping costs. Given how seriously you take the science of grading I am frankly surprised you haven't already done it. You could probably cycle through 5 CGC 10s and 5 CGC 9.9s and be out a total of $100...

 

Just a thought...

'House

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
The one suggestion I might make is to buy a few inexpensive 10s and spend some time looking them over. Realistically you are not going to lose money (other than shipping) unless the bottom falls out during the week after you bought them. Go buy some random CGC 10 for $140, take lots of notes and pictures, then resell it. Most you will likely lose is a few bucks plus shipping costs. Given how seriously you take the science of grading I am frankly surprised you haven't already done it. You could probably cycle through 5 CGC 10s and 5 CGC 9.9s and be out a total of $100...

 

Haven't bought one because I think they're mostly overpriced, because I haven't seen any 10.0 issues I was particularly interested in, because I've got plenty to learn about the REST of the scale to keep me busy (particularly low grade), and because I've never sold any comics, so the buy-just-to-study-and-reflip option hadn't even occurred to me. foreheadslap.gif I'll have to try it.

 

I'd be interestd in one of the Silver Age 9.9s, but I keep hearing they're either overgraded or were damaged by rough handling in the slab. Just rumors, I'm sure!!! gossip.gif

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lighthouse

lighthouse

Posted
Posted
The one suggestion I might make is to buy a few inexpensive 10s and spend some time looking them over. Realistically you are not going to lose money (other than shipping) unless the bottom falls out during the week after you bought them. Go buy some random CGC 10 for $140, take lots of notes and pictures, then resell it. Most you will likely lose is a few bucks plus shipping costs. Given how seriously you take the science of grading I am frankly surprised you haven't already done it. You could probably cycle through 5 CGC 10s and 5 CGC 9.9s and be out a total of $100...

 

Haven't bought one because I think they're mostly overpriced, because I haven't seen any 10.0 issues I was particularly interested in, because I've got plenty to learn about the REST of the scale to keep me busy (particularly low grade), and because I've never sold any comics, so the buy-just-to-study-and-reflip option hadn't even occurred to me. foreheadslap.gif I'll have to try it.

 

And actually, if you'd like... I could loan you a 10 and a couple 9.9s you could study... I have a few that are books I don't care about selling right away. Cover the shipping and insurance both ways, and I could let you have some to look at for a week... I wouldn't make that offer to just anyone (we all know what Darth would do to my 9.9 Emma Frost 1... *shudder*)... If I were you though, I would try to have at least three 10s at the same time, so you are not trying to compare from memory...

 

'House

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Illiterati-migration

Illiterati-migration

Posted
Posted
lol BO, that's a concept that people like FF will never understand. thumbsup2.gif

 

The only reason I feel a need to respond to your idiotically arrogant, trolling comments is because I'm never sure whether newer forum members realize them for what they are. So, this goes out to anyone with doubts--Khaos's comments are idiotically arrogant and trolling. I've studied grading as much as I possibly can, including the history which led up to the inception of CGC. Your allusions to my being CGC-biased started back with your Methuselah and Hammer shills, and they continue straight up to the present day with these Khaos-shills! It's amazing how you continue to weave the fiction far beyond the obviousness of its fallacy. foreheadslap.gif

 

I would just ask you to stop being a jackarse...but hey, I realize by now that people usually can't change their core personality, so I won't bother. crazy.gif

 

Dear insufficiently_thoughtful_person,

 

Please PM Arch immediately and ask him if I am, in fact, a shill for ANYONE other than Clark Khaos... a joke that (not surprisingly) went soaring over your pointed little head.

 

Oh, and feel free to actually REFUTE my claim if you can. 27_laughing.gif

I love that you had to IMMEDIATELY resort to base insults and the "You're Hammer! You're Meth!" screed.

 

Again, ask Arch. Do it. Do it now. 27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif

 

Eternally better than you,

Khaos

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Illiterati-migration

Illiterati-migration

Posted
Posted
The one suggestion I might make is to buy a few inexpensive 10s and spend some time looking them over. Realistically you are not going to lose money (other than shipping) unless the bottom falls out during the week after you bought them. Go buy some random CGC 10 for $140, take lots of notes and pictures, then resell it. Most you will likely lose is a few bucks plus shipping costs. Given how seriously you take the science of grading I am frankly surprised you haven't already done it. You could probably cycle through 5 CGC 10s and 5 CGC 9.9s and be out a total of $100...

 

Haven't bought one because I think they're mostly overpriced, because I haven't seen any 10.0 issues I was particularly interested in, because I've got plenty to learn about the REST of the scale to keep me busy (particularly low grade), and because I've never sold any comics, so the buy-just-to-study-and-reflip option hadn't even occurred to me. foreheadslap.gif I'll have to try it.

 

I'd be interestd in one of the Silver Age 9.9s, but I keep hearing they're either overgraded or were damaged by rough handling in the slab. Just rumors, I'm sure!!! gossip.gif

 

You've been arguing about something you haven't even SEEN with your own two beady eyes, Jamie???? Knock me down with a feather.

 

27_laughing.gif

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jimm94

jimm94

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the insight, 'House. I hadn't considered the perspective that 10.0's are not necessarily perfect copies, only "better than" all the others. Good stuff!

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted
I have found flaws on every 10 I have received... and flaws on every 9.9... and that's with the naked eye... I am not saying the flaws are huge, but anyone who owns a 10 can stare at it for 20 minutes and find subtle things that could be better.

 

10s are not flawless books... which may explain part of why it took so long before CGC gave a book a 10 when they started. The way I look at it, 10s are at a certain percentile level among books without handling damage.

 

Since I have no plans to sell my CGC 10.0(s)...

 

I'll let you guys scrutinize a pretty big scan of the Rai 0...

You will notice a slight miswrap. On the CGC 10.0. A slight miswrap.

(The "black edge" should begin at the staples, since the back cover is black.)

 

According to the new Overstreet Grading Guide...

the ONLY defect allowed on a Gem Mint 10.0 book is:

"only the slightest, most imperceptible bindery/printing defects"

 

They've graded 69 copies of Rai #0... all others are 9.8 or lower.

 

(Don't you just love those corners, though?) thumbsup2.gif

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blowout

blowout

Posted
Posted

I hadn't considered the perspective that 10.0's are not necessarily perfect copies

 

Do you think the buyers laying down big bucks for them realise this? What exactly ARE they paying a premium for? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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FlyingDonut

FlyingDonut

Posted
Posted
I hadn't considered the perspective that 10.0's are not necessarily perfect copies

 

Do you think the buyers laying down big bucks for them realise this? What exactly ARE they paying a premium for? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

That great big gold

10

on the top of the plastic slab. Please. "Buy the book, not the label." Yeah right. 27_laughing.gif "Mine is bigger than yours!"
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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
And actually, if you'd like... I could loan you a 10 and a couple 9.9s you could study... I have a few that are books I don't care about selling right away. Cover the shipping and insurance both ways, and I could let you have some to look at for a week... I wouldn't make that offer to just anyone (we all know what Darth would do to my 9.9 Emma Frost 1... *shudder*)... If I were you though, I would try to have at least three 10s at the same time, so you are not trying to compare from memory...

 

I'd definitely love to examine some of your 9.9s or 10.0s, and I'd cover shipping both ways. I could probably also buy some other stuff from you at the same time. Check your PMs.

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted
It's obviously 80,000 times nicer than this copy

 

Fair Market Value?

 

Maybe somebody should email the purchaser a copy of this auction so he get in contact with the seller and dollar cost average down his investment. 27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif

 

Why do people ignore shipping?

That $0.01 auction is really a $4.01 auction for a $2.25 book.

No one's getting anything for $0.01. 893naughty-thumb.gifgrin.gif

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rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted

True, Valiantman, but the link was meant to illustrate the absurdity of paying $800 for any copy of the book, not to indicate that no one was willing to pay a penny for it.

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blowout

blowout

Posted
Posted

True, Valiantman, but the link was meant to illustrate the absurdity of paying $800 for any copy of the book, not to indicate that no one was willing to pay a penny for it.

 

I think he was being sarcastic. gossip.gif

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