Buying key books graded - raw vs CGC

[maloney414]

I've spent the last few years buying key books in low grade, so this has been my focus too. Hopefully what follows is helpful. (thumbs u

 

It's been my experience that for low grades CGC is more strict than most dealers. They pay close attention to structural damage, and there are no bumps for eye appeal.

 

Remember, grading is an opinion. Not all dealers grade the same way CGC does, and many DO give bumps for eye appeal. This can lead to higher prices on raw books, while the same book graded creates a ceiling of monetary value.

 

It is a myth that you can always buy cheaper raw. A low grade book with nice eye appeal will sell higher raw. Especially the big keys. (Unless it's on eBay with a 5 feedback seller or some other red flag.)

 

I own several Marvel SA keys in low grade, and all of them have nice eye appeal for their grades (AF 15, FF 1, Hulk 1, DD 1, & X-Men 1). I truely believe if they had been raw instead of slabbed their asking prices would have been higher than the prices I paid for them.

 

For example here is my Hulk #1:

 

What do you think most dealers would grade this book raw? Be honest and go with "most" dealers. Not your favorite elite honest guy you trust and always buy from dealer. Think "most" dealers on the convention floor. (I won't keep you in suspense, the CGC grade is in the spoiler tag.)

 

 

 

It's a CGC 1.5. This book could easily be graded as a 2.0 or 2.5 by a dealer, and there is a big price difference between a 1.5 and a 2.0.

 

 

 

 

Another point that was made was to buy raw only from reputatable dealers. However, reputatable dealers that give full refunds for PLOD grades and specific CGC grade ranges are few and far between. They are out there, and several were mentioned already, but the REALITY is that when you go to buy a specific book like an AF #15 in X to Y grade range those 1/2 dozen dealers may not have it in their inventory.

 

If you've been saving for that book, the last thing you want to do is buy an X-Men #1 instead simply because that's what Bob Storms currently has in his inventory. Buying a slabbed book increases your range of safer places to buy.

 

I'm not saying you should never buy raw, but you need to do your research before you buy. Grade the book yourself by it's structure, not eye appeal. And only buy raw from reputable dealers that accept returns no questions asked for PLOD grades. (thumbs u

[oakman29]

Without looking at the spoiler.I would say 2.5

[DR.X]

Without looking at the spoiler.I would say 2.5

 

+1

 

Without seeing the back I have to agree with 2.5.

[etanick]

I don't know what most dealers would grade in all honesty but I think it is sitting in a 2.0 slab

[maloney414]

Without looking at the spoiler.I would say 2.5

 

+1

 

Without seeing the back I have to agree with 2.5.

 

I don't know what most dealers would grade in all honesty but I think it is sitting in a 2.0 slab

 

Exactly my point!

 

Which is why a low grade book with nice eye appeal will sell higher raw.

 

Remember: for low grades CGC is more strict than most dealers. They pay close attention to structural damage, and there are no bumps for eye appeal. (thumbs u

 

[divad]

No way anyone should grade that book 2.0 or better.

 

No offense . . .

[Dr. Balls]

I figured it was a 1.5 in the slab, and a 2.5 dealer graded. But, I will admit - I'm no expert, and I've been studying 1.0, 1.5 and 1.8s exclusively for the past month as I'm looking for specific books in those grades.

 

I agree, CGC does not bump for eye appeal - which is why I am carefully picking the 1.5s and 1.8s that look better than the others. To me, this is a little like buying the label AND the book. I can only afford lower grade big key books, but I'm going to find the one that looks the best to me.

[Gatsby77]

Without looking at the spoiler, that looked like a 2.0 to me. But (seriously) did you call for notes for hidden damage? Might have a piece out, etc.

 

I see your point, but part of the reason I trust CGC is for a resto check and hidden damage. "Eye appeal" (i.e., grading by the front cover alone) does not a grade make.

[maloney414]

I figured it was a 1.5 in the slab, and a 2.5 dealer graded. But, I will admit - I'm no expert, and I've been studying 1.0, 1.5 and 1.8s exclusively for the past month as I'm looking for specific books in those grades.

 

I agree, CGC does not bump for eye appeal - which is why I am carefully picking the 1.5s and 1.8s that look better than the others. To me, this is a little like buying the label AND the book. I can only afford lower grade big key books, but I'm going to find the one that looks the best to me.

 

You're doing it the right way. (thumbs u

[MagnetoWasRight]

I figured it was a 1.5 in the slab, and a 2.5 dealer graded. But, I will admit - I'm no expert, and I've been studying 1.0, 1.5 and 1.8s exclusively for the past month as I'm looking for specific books in those grades.

 

I agree, CGC does not bump for eye appeal - which is why I am carefully picking the 1.5s and 1.8s that look better than the others. To me, this is a little like buying the label AND the book. I can only afford lower grade big key books, but I'm going to find the one that looks the best to me.

 

Sounds like you and I have the same great taste in keys. I've been trying to do the same thing myself. IMHO, the low grade books are tougher to grade...I guess to me, its trying to add up all the defects that drop the grade of a book. A lot of the time a 1.5, 1.8 or a 2.0 look the same to me unless there's a huge defect staring right out at me. I'm doing my best to find presentable books in those low grades.

[maloney414]

Without looking at the spoiler, that looked like a 2.0 to me. But (seriously) did you call for notes for hidden damage? Might have a piece out, etc.

 

I see your point, but part of the reason I trust CGC is for a resto check and hidden damage. "Eye appeal" (i.e., grading by the front cover alone) does not a grade make.

 

No pieces missing and nothing major on the back either. At one point someone added staples to the book, but they were removed. So there are some very tiny holes in the book. Hard to see, but they are there. Again, structure damage. (thumbs u

 

Once you get a lot of experience with these low grade books, this books grade is actually consistent with the way CGC grades them. It's definitely a CGC 1.5/1.8. (It did have a grade of 1.8 from one grader.)

 

Which is my point I'm trying to share. CGC is more strict than most dealers at this level, and buying raw is NOT always cheaper.

 

I'm coming at this from a buyer perspective. And sometimes a slabbed book in this range is the better buy. Negotiations are in your favor for a book with good eye appeal if you can say "hey this book is in a 1.5 slab, so let's look at GPA for 1.5 and talk about price," than to deal with a dealer who is looking at 2.0 GPA prices, and you have to convince him CGC would grade it lower. (thumbs u

 

Most of my keys I've bought were already slabbed. In addition to the peace of mind with the resto, I think I got better prices for them as well because they do have nice eye appeal for their grades.

[MagnetoWasRight]

Without looking at the spoiler, that looked like a 2.0 to me. But (seriously) did you call for notes for hidden damage? Might have a piece out, etc.

 

I see your point, but part of the reason I trust CGC is for a resto check and hidden damage. "Eye appeal" (i.e., grading by the front cover alone) does not a grade make.

 

No pieces missing and nothing major on the back either. At one point someone added staples to the book, but they were removed. So there are some very tiny holes in the book. Hard to see, but they are there. Again, structure damage. (thumbs u

 

Once you get a lot of experience with these low grade books, this books grade is actually consistent with the way CGC grades them. It's definitely a CGC 1.5/1.8. (It did have a grade of 1.8 from one grader.)

 

Which is my point I'm trying to share. CGC is more strict than most dealers at this level, and buying raw is NOT always cheaper.

 

I'm coming at this from a buyer perspective. And sometimes a slabbed book in this range is the better buy. Negotiations are in your favor for a book with good eye appeal if you can say "hey this book is in a 1.5 slab, so let's look at GPA for 1.5 and talk about price," than to deal with a dealer who is looking at 2.0 GPA prices, and you have to convince him CGC would grade it lower. (thumbs u

 

Most of my keys I've bought were already slabbed. In addition to the peace of mind with the resto, I think I got better prices for them as well because they do have nice eye appeal for their grades.

 

I agree...most of my keys were bought graded. I learned my lesson with the resto and I do agree it makes buying a key at those grades easier. A 1.5 could easily look like a 2.5 raw if the cover is very presentable.

[Dr. Balls]

And sometimes a slabbed book in this range is the better buy. Negotiations are in your favor for a book with good eye appeal if you can say "hey this book is in a 1.5 slab, so let's look at GPA for 1.5 and talk about price," than to deal with a dealer who is looking at 2.0 GPA prices, and you have to convince him CGC would grade it lower.

 

The biggest buying point for me that I've taken from this thread is that you get what you pay for in the slab. I don't mind gambling on a $50 raw book, but for a big key book - my opinion has pretty much been solidified that slabbed is the way to go for me, and my collection.

[Tony S]

If you can get a decent deal on a raw key from a dealer/seller that will take it back shoud it come back graded restored or qualified I say go for it. I think it's unreasonable - and don't know any dealers that would - take it back if it grades lower than expected. Unless you have agreed to pay them more if comes back nicer...

 

Well now you do...

 

Returns/partial refunds are available if a book is graded by CGC up to one year after purchase and is assessed at more than one point below the grade stated by Comicana Direct at the time of sale. In these circumstances, return shipping will also be refunded.

 

I stand corrected on the "I don't know any dealer..." Comment. Thanks. Be a bit more usefult to me personally if you weren't across the big pond in the UK, but still it is an admirable policy.

 

I have some mail order customers from the UK myself (www.comicsinaflash.com) . Given CGC's policy of Fedex only on return shipping to other countries, my take was that most collectors in the UK buy their CGC books already slabbed. Because shipping them to CGC in the US to be slabbed, paying for the return shipping to the UK after slabbed and the gamble of insurance coverage just overwhelmed the cost/benefit ratio. I've sold a number of slabbed comics to the UK collectors on my mailing list - and I have a few times sent in raw books that they purchased from me and then shipped those to them once graded and slabbed. Because I willl ship via the post office insured. It is those collectors that explained the huge costs of getting books graded/slabbed dealing with CGC directly from the UK. BTW, I've not had anything so far - knock on wood - come back more than 1/2 point off.

 

A year is a long time on returns. How do you make sure you are getting back the book you sold? Or are there no hustlers on the collector side of the equation in England?

_________________________

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

If you can get a decent deal on a raw key from a dealer/seller that will take it back shoud it come back graded restored or qualified I say go for it. I think it's unreasonable - and don't know any dealers that would - take it back if it grades lower than expected. Unless you have agreed to pay them more if comes back nicer...

 

Well now you do...

 

Returns/partial refunds are available if a book is graded by CGC up to one year after purchase and is assessed at more than one point below the grade stated by Comicana Direct at the time of sale. In these circumstances, return shipping will also be refunded.

 

I stand corrected on the "I don't know any dealer..." Comment. Thanks. Be a bit more usefult to me personally if you weren't across the big pond in the UK, but still it is an admirable policy.

 

I have some mail order customers from the UK myself (www.comicsinaflash.com) . Given CGC's policy of Fedex only on return shipping to other countries, my take was that most collectors in the UK buy their CGC books already slabbed. Because shipping them to CGC in the US to be slabbed, paying for the return shipping to the UK after slabbed and the gamble of insurance coverage just overwhelmed the cost/benefit ratio. I've sold a number of slabbed comics to the UK collectors on my mailing list - and I have a few times sent in raw books that they purchased from me and then shipped those to them once graded and slabbed. Because I willl ship via the post office insured. It is those collectors that explained the huge costs of getting books graded/slabbed dealing with CGC directly from the UK. BTW, I've not had anything so far - knock on wood - come back more than 1/2 point off.

 

A year is a long time on returns. How do you make sure you are getting back the book you sold? Or are there no hustlers on the collector side of the equation in England?

_________________________

 

I'm sure there are, but we archive book scans - 6-7mg scans - so we can identify whether they are the same book and whether there's been any post-sale damage. (thumbs u

[ComicConnoisseur]

I tried to do a search, assuming this topic was probably discussed before - but I couldn't find anything. But, if there is, Blowie will tell me.

 

This year, I'm trying to focus on getting some Big Boy key books (JIM 83, X-Men 1, etc) and I've been going back and forth, wondering if I should try to buy raw or continue buying them slabbed in the grades I can afford.

 

The issue that concerns me is buying a raw, sending it in and getting the dreaded PLOD/GLOD because there is something wrong with the book that wasn't disclosed, or I didn't catch. Or, I buy a 3.0 raw, and it comes back as a 2.0, etc. Personally, I have had good experiences buying my key books slabbed, and I like the idea of buying an exact grade. The part I struggle with is the potential of buying a higher grade raw book, getting it slabbed and ending up with a better book than I could have originally afforded slabbed.

 

I know the upside to buying raw is that it's cheaper than buying it slabbed. The downside to buying raw is that there is an element of risk to buying the book.

 

The upside to buying it slabbed is that you get what is advertised. The downside is that you're paying the value of the book and the fees associated with slabbing.

 

I guess I'm looking to boardies for insight or personal philosophies in how they consider purchasing expensive books, and if they prefer one over the other.

Start with slabbed then when your comfortable raw. Kinda like when you rode your first bike slow n steady.

[Ryan.]

I was very comfortable with buying low grade raws on the keys because they generally (though certainly not always) can be bought a little cheaper than slabbed. However, having just 2 days ago learned that my X-Men 1 is getting the PLOD I suddenly find myself wanting to avoid raws like grim death. Of course the best thing I can probably do for myself is to start learning more about resto detection, which right now is basically nil. Sigh.

[thehumantorch]

I was very comfortable with buying low grade raws on the keys because they generally (though certainly not always) can be bought a little cheaper than slabbed. However, having just 2 days ago learned that my X-Men 1 is getting the PLOD I suddenly find myself wanting to avoid raws like grim death. Of course the best thing I can probably do for myself is to start learning more about resto detection, which right now is basically nil. Sigh.

 

Sorry to hear it. Buying a raw, high $ book is pure gamble. There are guys on ebay buying

restored, CGC graded books, cracking them out and flipping them on ebay as unrestored.

You may get lucky and pick up an under-graded or under-priced book but more likely you

will buy a headache.

[Dr. Balls]

I was very comfortable with buying low grade raws on the keys because they generally (though certainly not always) can be bought a little cheaper than slabbed. However, having just 2 days ago learned that my X-Men 1 is getting the PLOD I suddenly find myself wanting to avoid raws like grim death. Of course the best thing I can probably do for myself is to start learning more about resto detection, which right now is basically nil. Sigh.

 

That is such a heart-breaker. All it takes is one big book to learn that lesson. And believe me, after you told me about this - I've had to pass up a big book I really wanted, but it was raw and I just want to stick to buying slabbed key books for that very reason.

[Ryan.]

I was very comfortable with buying low grade raws on the keys because they generally (though certainly not always) can be bought a little cheaper than slabbed. However, having just 2 days ago learned that my X-Men 1 is getting the PLOD I suddenly find myself wanting to avoid raws like grim death. Of course the best thing I can probably do for myself is to start learning more about resto detection, which right now is basically nil. Sigh.

 

Sorry to hear it. Buying a raw, high $ book is pure gamble. There are guys on ebay buying

restored, CGC graded books, cracking them out and flipping them on ebay as unrestored.

You may get lucky and pick up an under-graded or under-priced book but more likely you

will buy a headache.

 

That's such a scummy thing to do yet it's not surprising at all.