Buying key books graded - raw vs CGC

[Dr. Balls]

I tried to do a search, assuming this topic was probably discussed before - but I couldn't find anything. But, if there is, Blowie will tell me.

 

This year, I'm trying to focus on getting some Big Boy key books (JIM 83, X-Men 1, etc) and I've been going back and forth, wondering if I should try to buy raw or continue buying them slabbed in the grades I can afford.

 

The issue that concerns me is buying a raw, sending it in and getting the dreaded PLOD/GLOD because there is something wrong with the book that wasn't disclosed, or I didn't catch. Or, I buy a 3.0 raw, and it comes back as a 2.0, etc. Personally, I have had good experiences buying my key books slabbed, and I like the idea of buying an exact grade. The part I struggle with is the potential of buying a higher grade raw book, getting it slabbed and ending up with a better book than I could have originally afforded slabbed.

 

I know the upside to buying raw is that it's cheaper than buying it slabbed. The downside to buying raw is that there is an element of risk to buying the book.

 

The upside to buying it slabbed is that you get what is advertised. The downside is that you're paying the value of the book and the fees associated with slabbing.

 

I guess I'm looking to boardies for insight or personal philosophies in how they consider purchasing expensive books, and if they prefer one over the other.

[oakman29]

Let me tell you my friend,when you deal with the big boy keys you should get them already graded.Or deal with someone who is VERY trust worthy,no ebay BS.Only deal with reliable board members Flaming Telepath,GAtor,Dale,Bob Storms etc.you know who they are.I buy graded because I don't like to deal with the BS of getting a book graded and God forbid it comes back a PLOD,then dealing with getting a refund........

[Dr. Balls]

Let me tell you my friend,when you deal with the big boy keys you should get them already graded.Or deal with someone who is VERY trust worthy,no ebay BS.Only deal with reliable board members Flaming Telepath,GAtor,Dale,Bob Storms etc.you know who they are.I buy graded because I don't like to deal with the BS of getting a book graded and God forbid it comes back a PLOD,then dealing with getting a refund........

 

(thumbs u

[Green]

I tried to do a search, assuming this topic was probably discussed before - but I couldn't find anything. But, if there is, Blowie will tell me.

 

This year, I'm trying to focus on getting some Big Boy key books (JIM 83, X-Men 1, etc) and I've been going back and forth, wondering if I should try to buy raw or continue buying them slabbed in the grades I can afford.

 

The issue that concerns me is buying a raw, sending it in and getting the dreaded PLOD/GLOD because there is something wrong with the book that wasn't disclosed, or I didn't catch. Or, I buy a 3.0 raw, and it comes back as a 2.0, etc. Personally, I have had good experiences buying my key books slabbed, and I like the idea of buying an exact grade. The part I struggle with is the potential of buying a higher grade raw book, getting it slabbed and ending up with a better book than I could have originally afforded slabbed.

 

I know the upside to buying raw is that it's cheaper than buying it slabbed. The downside to buying raw is that there is an element of risk to buying the book.

 

The upside to buying it slabbed is that you get what is advertised. The downside is that you're paying the value of the book and the fees associated with slabbing.

 

I guess I'm looking to boardies for insight or personal philosophies in how they consider purchasing expensive books, and if they prefer one over the other.

 

Unless you are extremely confident in your own resto detection and grading, i would suggest sticking to certified.

[Jeffro.]

 

I guess I'm looking to boardies for insight or personal philosophies in how they consider purchasing expensive books, and if they prefer one over the other.

 

As a general rule, I would always seek to buy books raw. I have nothing against the slabbing of books and I fully understand the value of the restoration check but in general, you will pay more for a slabbed book then you would a raw book in the same grade.

 

If you're concerned about buying a book that's over graded and/or has resto, there are any number of reputable dealers that grade tightly and can spot resto. of course, nothing is 100% and even CGC has missed resto on occasion.

[Spiderphill]

You ONLY buy raw if your resto detection skills are insane. That includes married page/covers/replaced staples. Since I suck in that field, I purchase everything slabbed. Though it does cost more $$ than buying raw. The risk of purchasing a raw big key coming back a plod/glod is pretty much an automatic loss of $, unless you purchase from a reputable dealer who will refund your money because they didn't catch the restoration.

[chrisco37]

The biggest key I own is FF#5. I bought it raw at a show (B'more Con).

 

I told the dealer that I was planning on submitting it to CGC for the resto check. He agreed that if it came back PLOD, he'd refund my money.

 

Of course, I had Steve B with me at the time (who thought it looked resto-free). I also had Matt Nelson look at the book right after I bought it and he thought it looked resto-free.

 

There are dealers who will come to that sort of arrangement. I doubt they would do it as far as CGC grade is concerned. Lower grade books are tougher to grade than UHG, IMO. So, it's kind of a carpshoot there. But, the book came back the grade I figured it at, so maybe I'm not that terrible (or wasn't that day).

 

I'd have no problem buying raw keys from a number of dealers (Storms, Dale, Ted, Rich Evans, Joe V, et al). I would avoid buying these kind of books from an "unknown" on eBay or even at a show.

[miraclemet]

I guess my thinking is (since Im relatively new to the High Grade/CGC hobby) while it costs more to buy pre-certified slabs of key vs some better "raw" deals, it just takes being "stuck" with one PLOD to blow that money you saved by buying raw....

 

You spend $5k on three slabs that are certified for condition and resto-free you have $5k in value (or maybe a little more if you find some decent deals).

 

You spend $5k on raw, thinking you can turn a 20-30% value profit (not even meaning you sell them, just that the books you have are worth more than what you paid). ONE PLOD on a 2k book (Say An ASM #8 that looked NM-) that comes back 1/2 a grade lower and PLOD and your 2k book is now a $500 book with a much smaller resell market. And thus your 5k spend that you thought might have a $6-7k value is now more like $4k....

 

Its that scenario that makes me limit my raw purchases to trusted boardies who have an eye for these things (and disclose them when they find them) or dealers who have a written agreement to refund me if a book comes back PLOD (and those dealers are few and far between).

 

Im not going to say DONT buy raw (cause I do both) but I think raw purchases require some more diligence and should be limited to certain sellers when you are talking about big ticket books.

[Dr. Balls]

Thanks for the input, guys. I can grade a book as much as the next guy - but I wouldn't be comfortable buying a $2k book based solely on my grading skills, that's for sure. I feel a little more confident knowing that I share the same outlook on buying slabs as other people.

[Columbia Comics]

I concur with the group that when dealing with high grade/high value books, a slab is the way to go. And if worse comes to worse, you can crack the slab and keep the book raw. In that instance, you know what you have and could reslab it if necessary.

 

I also believe that when dealing over the internet with faceless people (not an insult), you can never be too careful. CGC has made the comic book industry more like a commodity exchange. And while I realize that not all 5.0 books are exactly the same (like wheat is) they're so close that generally the market for a book at the 5.0 range is consistent for one book vs. another.

 

Of course I'm talking about blue labels...

[Bomber-Bob]

 

There are dealers who will come to that sort of arrangement. I doubt they would do it as far as CGC grade is concerned.

 

A very good point to consider when purchasing raw books, even from a reputable dealer. The dealer may stand behind the resto issue but not on the grade. When dealing with Big Boy books a .5 difference may mean thousands of dollars. I feel safer buying an already slabbed book, period.

[Jeffreykli]

Interesting thread and responses. I'm actually somewhat divided. I'm ok buying a big book raw, if it's in the relatively low grades (below Fine). I'm somewhat confident with my resto detection skills, although by no means an expert.

 

Also, if I know and trust the seller, I'm fine with buying raw regardless of grade.

 

Sure, it's definitely riskier, but if you're willing to take the risk, you also get to reap the rewards if/when slabbed. Also, I've been able to find some original owner collections, and if you know the backstory about a collection, you can feel pretty confident that there has been no resto.

 

With CGC and the internet, though, finding raw big books frankly is getting harder and harder. For example, if you're in the market for an AF #15, you're far more likely to find them graded than raw. I haven't been looking that hard for one, but that's my sense. I also recently got a Human Torch #12, and the only copies I could find were graded.

[chrisco37]

 

There are dealers who will come to that sort of arrangement. I doubt they would do it as far as CGC grade is concerned.

 

A very good point to consider when purchasing raw books, even from a reputable dealer. The dealer may stand behind the resto issue but not on the grade. When dealing with Big Boy books a .5 difference may mean thousands of dollars. I feel safer buying an already slabbed book, period.

 

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find a dealer that would offer a guarantee of CGC grade (do they even exist?).

 

And, why would they offer that? It would be foolish as there isn't any collector that is going to pay them additional juice if the guaranteed grade came back higher than advertised.

[MagnetoWasRight]

I learned this lesson a year or so ago...I only buy big keys already graded. I spend over 1k on a book, bought it raw and it came back a PLOD and it took me 6 months to have it fixed. In the end, it does cost a bit more but the hastle of having it fixed or being stuck with a PLOD makes it worth it to me to buy already graded.

[Dr. Balls]

I learned this lesson a year or so ago...I only buy big keys already graded. I spend over 1k on a book, bought it raw and it came back a PLOD and it took me 6 months to have it fixed. In the end, it does cost a bit more but the hastle of having it fixed or being stuck with a PLOD makes it worth it to me to buy already graded.

 

That's the cautionary tale I was looking for. Granted, even if guy got lucky and had a dealer "make it right" - you still have to go through all the hassle and stress of having to get your book straightened out.

 

BTW, I love your sig line. That's damn near the same book lineup I'm going for. (thumbs u

[Waylander]

I learned this lesson a year or so ago...I only buy big keys already graded. I spend over 1k on a book, bought it raw and it came back a PLOD and it took me 6 months to have it fixed. In the end, it does cost a bit more but the hastle of having it fixed or being stuck with a PLOD makes it worth it to me to buy already graded.

 

That's the cautionary tale I was looking for. Granted, even if guy got lucky and had a dealer "make it right" - you still have to go through all the hassle and stress of having to get your book straightened out.

 

BTW, I love your sig line. That's damn near the same book lineup I'm going for. (thumbs u

 

I've bought 'Big Boy' books raw but I must admit that now, I would probably either buy my such books from a dealer I know like Flaming Telepath or buy a slabbed book and break that puppy out so I can read it.

 

Oh, one note of caution - I purchased a slabbed key silver aged comic (7.5) - happy with the grade and as usual broke that book out of the slab so I could read it. I opened the first page and there was someone's name written in ink (big bold letters). If the book was raw, I would have looked through it, seen the writing and would have rejected it - but as I broke the slab to read it - I did not think it reasonable to seek a refund from the dealer - especially as they were NOT the person who had the comic slabbed. So not everything is perfect...

 

 

[Jeffro.]

 

There are dealers who will come to that sort of arrangement. I doubt they would do it as far as CGC grade is concerned.

 

A very good point to consider when purchasing raw books, even from a reputable dealer. The dealer may stand behind the resto issue but not on the grade. When dealing with Big Boy books a .5 difference may mean thousands of dollars. I feel safer buying an already slabbed book, period.

 

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find a dealer that would offer a guarantee of CGC grade (do they even exist?).

 

And, why would they offer that? It would be foolish as there isn't any collector that is going to pay them additional juice if the guaranteed grade came back higher than advertised.

 

I can't imagine any dealer doing that either.

[MagnetoWasRight]

I learned this lesson a year or so ago...I only buy big keys already graded. I spend over 1k on a book, bought it raw and it came back a PLOD and it took me 6 months to have it fixed. In the end, it does cost a bit more but the hastle of having it fixed or being stuck with a PLOD makes it worth it to me to buy already graded.

 

That's the cautionary tale I was looking for. Granted, even if guy got lucky and had a dealer "make it right" - you still have to go through all the hassle and stress of having to get your book straightened out.

 

BTW, I love your sig line. That's damn near the same book lineup I'm going for. (thumbs u

 

Thanks! I've been having fun slowly tracking down low grade copies of the big Marvel keys. Once I am lucky to own them all, I may upgrade a few of them. The Raw vs CGC question is a tough one...I see an argument for both sides but for me, after what I went through with one key I bought, I'll go slabbed from now on unless its a book that I don't plan on having graded.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

My take is simple.

 

Buy graded. Why? I've purchased 6 big keys raw in my life and 3 ended up being restored. Of those 3, 2 were from the boards, but I was able to work it out with the 2 board members. Even the big players on here make mistakes.

 

I'll gladly pay more for a certified book because of the certainty of what I am buying. Raw copies sell for less because of the gamble in doing so, especially on-line where you are unable to closely inspect a book until you've purchased it.

 

Opt for raw if you're confident in your restoration detection skills and can inspect a book in person. 4 of the 5 I bought in person were unrestored, and the one that was retored was obvious to me when I bought it, but the problem is that it was restored a heck of a lot more than I thoguht it was.... (hey, I finally used the new emoticon!!!)

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

And ultimately, I can live with slight resto of a certain sort on a big key book. A bit of glue or a spot of colour touch isn't the end of the world. It's a shame ALL purple labels act as such a stigma.