Raw Books on Ebay....I'm done!!!

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok, I have received 3 raw books purchased on Ebay from three separate sellers in the past 2-days.

 

I purchased:

 

A Tales of Suspense #59 rated at a 6.0

 

A Shanna The She-devil #1 rated at an 8.5

 

and an Uncanny X-men #107 rated at an 8.0.

 

To say that I was less than thrilled with the grading would be an understatement. All 3 sellers had near perfect or perfect feedback, but the scans were not super-size high res pictures so I had to put a little bit of faith in the integrity of the sellers........ What a joke!!!!

 

I am not a tough grader by any means and when I purchased books I typically don't expect the book to grade out via CGC standards, but I would like it to be close.

 

Now a little bit about the condition of the books I received.....

 

Tales of Suspense #59 6.0- The book had so much water damage that their was actually a sediment line on the back cover as if part of the book had sat in water and a line of dirt stuck to the cover. The top edge of the pages was completely black with some type of mold....6.0....... it may have come back a green Label for being a qualified POS

 

Shanna The She-devil #1 8.5- 16 traverse stress lines on the spine, (2) 1 1/2 inch color breaking crease on the lower right cover, a 1/8 inch crease on the URC, Upper Left Corner blunted, and a spot of water damage on the back cover the size of a silver dollar. I can't image this book even grading out to a 6.0. The dealer is refunding my money and stated grading is very subjective....are you bleeping kidding me, my 9 year old daughter can grade better than that

 

Uncanny X-men #107 8.0- 11 traverse stress lines on spine with many of them intersecting like a triangle, 1 small notch out of the spine with paper loss, major scuffing on top edge of front cover, kind of like the book was caught in a zipper, greasy palm print on back cover (light but it soaked through to the inside of the back cover).

 

 

So I don't think I am being even remotely picking on my grading, I just can't find anyone selling accurately graded raw books, so I guess I am going to have to fork out the extra dough for CGC copies of everything. What a bummer!!!!

 

The worst part is I am out time, money and gas on each one of these books even if I do get refunds. No one is willing to pay total bid, plus shipping, plus return shipping not to mention it cost me money to drive to the post office etc.

 

Please tell me there are still folks selling on Ebay that know how to grade books?

[davidking623]

I really feel your pain!

 

Davidking623

[Pickey_Grader-migration]

I,ve had a coupe of bad experiences like that on Ebay too but I was lucky enough that the seller refunded the money. When soemthing like that happens I leave a neutral feedback. It is the only way to tell people about the shaddy grading.

 

[Ron_Nasty]

Could you post a link to those auctions?

[kryptonitecomics]

I am posting these links as a lesson to those that shop Ebay, a lot can be hidden on a small scan. Each of these sellers has offered to refund the total + original shipping, so I don't want to turn this into a flame the sellers thread. I do want others to know that a great feedback rating does not assure you of a great book or accurate grading.

 

 

Tales Of Suspense #59

 

Shanna the She-devil #1

 

 

X-men #107

[supapimp]

did you ever ask for a bigger scan?

[kryptonitecomics]

No. I typically don't on lower dollar books when the sellers feedback is good. Besides in most cases I surf the auctions that are just ending so there in no time to get additional scans.

[joemad]

Ok, I have received 3 raw books purchased on Ebay from three separate sellers in the past 2-days.

 

I purchased:

 

A Tales of Suspense #59 rated at a 6.0

 

A Shanna The She-devil #1 rated at an 8.5

 

and an Uncanny X-men #107 rated at an 8.0.

 

To say that I was less than thrilled with the grading would be an understatement. All 3 sellers had near perfect or perfect feedback, but the scans were not super-size high res pictures so I had to put a little bit of faith in the integrity of the sellers........ What a joke!!!!

 

I am not a tough grader by any means and when I purchased books I typically don't expect the book to grade out via CGC standards, but I would like it to be close.

 

Now a little bit about the condition of the books I received.....

 

Tales of Suspense #59 6.0- The book had so much water damage that their was actually a sediment line on the back cover as if part of the book had sat in water and a line of dirt stuck to the cover. The top edge of the pages was completely black with some type of mold....6.0....... it may have come back a green Label for being a qualified POS

 

Shanna The She-devil #1 8.5- 16 traverse stress lines on the spine, (2) 1 1/2 inch color breaking crease on the lower right cover, a 1/8 inch crease on the URC, Upper Left Corner blunted, and a spot of water damage on the back cover the size of a silver dollar. I can't image this book even grading out to a 6.0. The dealer is refunding my money and stated grading is very subjective....are you bleeping kidding me, my 9 year old daughter can grade better than that

 

Uncanny X-men #107 8.0- 11 traverse stress lines on spine with many of them intersecting like a triangle, 1 small notch out of the spine with paper loss, major scuffing on top edge of front cover, kind of like the book was caught in a zipper, greasy palm print on back cover (light but it soaked through to the inside of the back cover).

 

 

So I don't think I am being even remotely picking on my grading, I just can't find anyone selling accurately graded raw books, so I guess I am going to have to fork out the extra dough for CGC copies of everything. What a bummer!!!!

 

The worst part is I am out time, money and gas on each one of these books even if I do get refunds. No one is willing to pay total bid, plus shipping, plus return shipping not to mention it cost me money to drive to the post office etc.

 

Please tell me there are still folks selling on Ebay that know how to grade books?

 

just leave negative feedback, the seller clearly deserves it

 

this cant possibly be the first time a thing like this happens with this seller, he's probably just managed so far to keep people from giving negs by offereing refunds

 

so he/she maintains a great feedback profile and buyers like you are suckered into bidding on overgraded copies, and getting ripped off either the value of shipping and related expenses if they return it or the value or the book if they choose not to bother

 

i've had so many experiences like the one you described i dont even bother with ebay...of the 10-15 transaction i've had on there probably about 2 were satisfactory, the rest being huge disapointments, so screw [!@#%^&^] ebay sellers

[sterlingcomics]

Krypto, sorry about that, but I'm afraid your experience has been the norm for me--thus I either only buy CGC books or buy from sellers who have consistently provided good product and service--which I can count on one hand.

[divad]

Krypto, sorry about that, but I'm afraid your experience has been the norm for me--thus I either only buy CGC books or buy from sellers who have consistently provided good product and service--which I can count on one hand.

 

Uh, why don't you guys buy from reputable sellers like me, who give you both huge high res scans of both the front and back covers, a thorough description, AND a full unconditional money-back guarantee???

 

Que pasa?

 

- divadrabnud

 

My eBay Auctions

 

There's a reason my feedback ratio is 2 to 1 - everybody comes back for more!

 

[batman_fan]

I have to agree. My success rate is about 10% for non CGC books. I am now at a point where if I don't get it at a VG price when advertised in VFN/NM, I don't bid. Way too many people out there over grading because they know people don't send back the books and on the cheaper books, a big chunk of the profits can be in the over charges for shipping. The only problem is a lot of people are heading this way so it is getting tough to pick up anything at a reasonable price so I just wait, patiently watching, every ready to jump on those key books I want (need?) for my collection.

[Aces]

Please tell me there are still folks selling on Ebay that know how to grade books?

 

 

 

 

Don't give up completely. Some of us can grade!

[Calamerica]

This is why I scaled my purchases WAY down from what I used to spend on raw comics on eBay. Bad grading, misleading info( see that post about NeatstuffCollectibles's ASM # 10 I got hosed on) and just outright carelessness and disregard for buyers of Comic Books. I have been on eBay for over 4 years, and I must state here that the quality of Sellers' comic book auctions are at the all-time low, at least for me. If I bid a VF, I am almost certain to get a F or less. Some Sellers don't think water stains lowers a comic's grade!

 

However, SOME, not all, of my disputes over a graded comic did lead to a Seller giving me a free comic to compensate( Superworld did this for me) and a few partial refunds and keep the comic( they knew I was a spending customer and they also knew I was telling the truth), and sometimes had to return the comic for full refund. I try not to ever return a comic book that I feel was overgraded - it has to be WAY off base before I send it back. A few Sellers fight back against me, but most do not.Two of the 4 negative feedbacks I have were directly related to a disagreement of comics I bought from( one had a perfect rating at the time but is now permanently NARU'd - the other is detailed on my website to stay for a long, long time!).

 

I am also not one of the guys who thinks that the available supply of NM stuff has been "scarfed up"; I am in the camp that there will always be plenty of NM stuff to go around. Comics are like stocks - limitd supply but a constant changing of hands. I also think that Silver Age is plentiful. Now some Golden Age is probably a different story, but VG+ is not impossible to get. Platinum Age is relatively scarce, but patience usually wins out.

 

To the point: eBay has far more Sellers right now and I think that there are TWO large factors that come into play here: The economy IS bad, and thus leading to more Sellers trying to wring out a few extra bucks, and the level of the public's perception of what the values of old comic books are worth has "caught up" with the knowledgeable hobbysists. Why do I state this? How can I prove this last factor? For ME, the last 10( 10), yes, 10 deals I tried to secure to add to my storage rooms only was successful ONCE. That has never happened to me before. Ever. And I pay good, just ask those who I bought from. Something I heard this year that I did not hear in years past was " I know these old beat-up comics are going to increase in value - the Movies out today AND I heard about Nick Cage...". Like it or not, the public got a taste of a mainstream Star selling those Golden Age keys for princely sums. People remember that. And almost everyone knows about the Marvel movies and Batman/Superman too. Sure, these Sellers I speak of probably have no clue about the difference between ASM and PPSSM. But nevertheless when people think they have stumbled on something like comic books, cards, depression glass and they discover that there are "collectors" that sort of "specialize" in that "hobby" and pay large sums for items, the human factor of the Dollar signs light up in their heads. Another point of proof : More Comic listings than ever before on eBay right now. Sellers that never sold comics before are venturing in the hobby, and it is probably good for the comics hobby in the long run, but time will tell the final tale. I already pointed out here before that more and more Sellers are "copycatting" from others' listings, and besides the "borrowing" of photos, the descriptors of VF and NM are used much more loosely than before and let all Buyers beware. The CGC usage to attract searches is at an all-time high as far as I can tell - this is abuse that seems like not a big deal, but nonetheless, it is wrong IMO.

 

Sure, some overgrading is unintentional, but Buyers are not mind readers. We cannot possibly know who is "overgrading" a bit for financial gain, or some raw "rookie" entrant into the comics hobby. Remember, just because an eBayer may have a perfect feedback of 500 does not mean as much now as it did in the past - several of my comic purchases that ended up in a substantial grading disagreement also had the following eMail attached: " Dear Sir, I am new to comics and don't really know how to grade - a friend did them for me" or words close to that effect. More and more listings have the same lame disclaimer: " I am not a professional grader - so please take a good look at the comic" and MOST of the time the digital picture looks good enough to take the "bait". It takes time and lots of trial and error to get it down just to be "close-to-the-mark" for high-grade comic book collectors.

 

Well, that's all for now. I hope this info has been helpful and understandable for all you comic book collectors out there. Remember that man on Hill Stree Blues used to say after the opening briefings? " Be careful out there!".

 

Caveat Emptor: Let the Buyer beware.

 

CAL

[kahml]

Yes, some of us can - and do - grade accurately.

 

I had an experience with a new seller earlier this year. I slam-dunked a half-dozen Neal Adams Green Lantern reader copies from him.

 

His description of each book was accurate; however, the condition of each book was about 2 points lower than what he said. He simply didn't understand some grading distinctions. Because the books were inexpensive, I really wasn't going to hassle him, and I really wanted the readers.

 

I let him know that he was going to go out of business if he kept this up. I politely told him where to look on the Internet to get more information and passed along some grading and selling tips.

 

Two weeks later I got a copy of GL 19 (cover detached) along with a "Thank you!" note.

 

There are all kinds of sellers in this eBay world...

 

Larry

[burntboy]

I am posting these links as a lesson to those that shop Ebay, a lot can be hidden on a small scan. Each of these sellers has offered to refund the total + original shipping, so I don't want to turn this into a flame the sellers thread. I do want others to know that a great feedback rating does not assure you of a great book or accurate grading.

 

 

Tales Of Suspense #59

 

Shanna the She-devil #1

 

 

X-men #107

 

 

 

despite my checkered past on some big deals with Comic-Keys, Comix32 and Venus7074, i've been pretty fortunate on e-bay. out of 300 distinctive purchases, i've only truly been ripped off on the three auctions mentioned above.

 

i've had a handful of grading disputes (mostly ending with the sellers issuing a partial refund), but for the most part, i haven't had the kind of experience you share here. of course, my expectations are always set at a full grade below what is being advertised and then i only bid at some percentage of guide for the lower grade.

 

but what you describe is so typical of what can happen. i've been generally lucky and have run into a whole host of decent sellers. keep in mind that when you're winning at guide minus 60% for a SA key (TOS 59), there's probably a reason.

 

glad to hear that all 3 sellers are refunding your money.

[kryptonitecomics]

There are some great response to my original post so thank you all for taking the time to post. I do agree with your assessment Burntboy that if the price seems to good to be true it probably is. On the other hand I have gotten some fantastic deals on Ebay, but it seem clear that it is getting worse.

 

The funny thing is that in a lot of these cases I was looking for a grade point not a price, so it's natural that I would gravitate to the cheapest price level for the grade. I would have and could have spent more on the books had they not been appearantly available in the grades I desired and for reasonable or low prices.

 

So I guess the moral to this story is stick with sellers that I have dealt with in the past, don't take a chance on small scans, If I get an undergraded book, but the price was fair, I may just have to accept that I got what I paid for

 

 

As a side note I would like to state for the record that I have traded and purchased books from Mephisto44 and he is a fantastic grader!!!

[uclapeterg]

 

I always include BIG front and back cover scans and respond to any questions or requests. My feedback lately people are mentioning how strict a grader I am.

 

Ebay ID: Discountcomics

[kryptonitecomics]

Just got a raw Green Lantern #61 that was graded a VF/NM by the seller. It won't grade higher than a 7.5, but I am stll going to keep it since I got a good price on it. I left positive feedback, but stated Book overgraded, but still a good deal.

 

 

On the flip side I got the following books and all were accurately graded:

 

Bronze Age

Kazar #1

The Shadow #1

 

Silver Age

Strange Tales #133

Strange Tales #143

Tales To Astonish #61

Tales To Astonish #68

Tales To Astonish #71

Tales To Astonish #75

Tales To Astonish #78

Tales Of Suspense #67

Tales Of Suspense #70

Tales Of Suspense #71

Tales Of Suspense #79

Tales Of Suspense #81

Tales Of Suspense #84

Tales Of Suspense #85

Tales Of Suspense #86

Tales Of Suspense #92

Tales Of Suspense #93

Tales Of Suspense #94

Tales Of Suspense #99

 

 

So my faith is restored a little bit.

[BachelorOfComix]

Please tell me there are still folks selling on Ebay that know how to grade books?

Methinks we need a "Good Ebay Grader" Thread or have we ever had one?

[kryptonitecomics]

Please tell me there are still folks selling on Ebay that know how to grade books?

Methinks we need a "Good Ebay Grader" Thread or have we ever had one?

 

 

I think we have, but I agree that it would be nice to have a list of seller that grade accurately!!

 

66uncle66 is who I bought the Tales Of Suspense and Tales to Astonish from and I agreed with all of his grades. I also bought some books from Neatstuff and again I think his grading was above average, which means he was within a half a grade up or down from my grading criteria.