Dark days for the CGC Highly dissappointed....

[DougC]

While this post is in all likely hood nothing more than mean spirited rabble rousing, logically speaking If CGC were as dirty as you believe then they would have every reason to giver your book a bump as a first time submitter. That way you have reason to keep submitting books.

 

Don't get me wrong for a long time I hated CGC for in my perception of what they "did" to the comic book community and would add my belief to them being less than honest with degrees of grading. For everyone that is new or has questions, they really need to start by understanding "how" they learned to grade. For me it was at my LCS from an 60+ year old gentlemen who pressed, cleaned, and did minor color touches to books (back in the 80's) called them VF+ and was very popular with local collectors for his great prices.

 

I still have an X-Men #4 (my first "big" purchase) that was graded as VG and I look at it today and have a good laugh, it might be in the 1.0 range on a good day after a couple beers. So the beginning of my Grading experience was from someone who was loose with the grades but good with prices. Over the years it has tightened up abit and with CGC a single set preference standard is probably a good thing for everyone.

 

One thing I would like to see is a CGC grading classes at large shows with basic steps, examples, and timely Q&A.

[Aces]

I submitted a JLA #7 which was a sure 9.4 or above. Nice corners flat glossy clean and tight! It is really a beautiful representation of this comic! I saw when it was finally graded it was 9.0. I paused and my heart was broken, I called the office and asked them for the grading notes and they said the only thing they found was the 3 tiny creases which are barley noticeable on the bottom left corner (see the picture)! This is ridiculous!! That flaw was the only reason why it was a 9.0, I have seen books that look worse than this that get 9.4's even 9.6's!! CGC is bias and only looks to benefit itself and the companies it works with. I shake my head in disgust at the level of consideration for people who are just regular comic book collectors and how unfairly they are treated compared to the people who make money for CGC.

 

Still only one post I see even though I'm late to this thread.

 

This sort of post is useless without a good scan. How can we judge your remarks?

 

I've submitted personally over 30 books (and with a group of buds a combined effort of nearly 100) in the last few months and a few books got killed, a few books did better than expected (gift grades) but most were in the "ball park".

 

This is the problem when you submit just one book... If it doesn't go well it's the end of the CGC...

[Eddy707]

While this post is in all likely hood nothing more than mean spirited rabble rousing, logically speaking If CGC were as dirty as you believe then they would have every reason to giver your book a bump as a first time submitter. That way you have reason to keep submitting books.

 

Don't get me wrong for a long time I hated CGC for in my perception of what they "did" to the comic book community and would add my belief to them being less than honest with degrees of grading. For everyone that is new or has questions, they really need to start by understanding "how" they learned to grade. For me it was at my LCS from an 60+ year old gentlemen who pressed, cleaned, and did minor color touches to books (back in the 80's) called them VF+ and was very popular with local collectors for his great prices.

 

I still have an X-Men #4 (my first "big" purchase) that was graded as VG and I look at it today and have a good laugh, it might be in the 1.0 range on a good day after a couple beers. So the beginning of my Grading experience was from someone who was loose with the grades but good with prices. Over the years it has tightened up abit and with CGC a single set preference standard is probably a good thing for everyone.

 

One thing I would like to see is a CGC grading classes at large shows with basic steps, examples, and timely Q&A.

 

+1, why is it always the people that rant about CGC it is their first time posting on the boards?

[faster friends]

Another important detail that people forget is that the CGC grade is just an opinion. It does not make it Gospel truth.

[VintageComics]

One thing I would like to see is a CGC grading classes at large shows with basic steps, examples, and timely Q&A.

 

The grading contests on these boards are a terrific way to sharpen up quickly.

 

Like anything else, it all comes down to experience. Most people learn to grade through reading up in the subject and dealing with comics over time.

 

 

[mintcollector]

One thing I would like to see is a CGC grading classes at large shows with basic steps, examples, and timely Q&A.

 

The grading contests on these boards are a terrific way to sharpen up quickly.

 

Like anything else, it all comes down to experience. Most people learn to grade through reading up in the subject and dealing with comics over time.

 

 

I would agree. However, in other collecting fields (i.e. currency and coins) they do have seminars on grading. I do not think it would be a bad idea for the comic collecting field to ever 'evolve' in this matter.

 

 

[50 CENT LONG BOX]

Another important detail that people forget is that the CGC grade is just an opinion. It does not make it Gospel truth.

 

The light shines on the TRUTH!!

and it will set you free brother.

[VintageComics]

One thing I would like to see is a CGC grading classes at large shows with basic steps, examples, and timely Q&A.

 

The grading contests on these boards are a terrific way to sharpen up quickly.

 

Like anything else, it all comes down to experience. Most people learn to grade through reading up in the subject and dealing with comics over time.

 

 

I would agree. However, in other collecting fields (i.e. currency and coins) they do have seminars on grading. I do not think it would be a bad idea for the comic collecting field to ever 'evolve' in this matter.

 

 

CGC does not divulge their grading criteria.

 

Additionally, currency and coin hobbies are much higher evolved as currencies have been around for as long as mankind has been

 

Comics are only a relatively recent hobby spanning a a century (give or take a few decades, depending on your POV).

 

 

[PovertyRow]

 

Comics are only a relatively recent hobby spanning a a century (give or take a few decades, depending on your POV).

 

 

[latony007-migration]

i think they undergrade some too, its like gymastics, there is no 10 so they start at 9.8. What i really hate is that they dont supply you with what the book was marked down for. I even think they should put it on the back of the label so when your buying one you can see what it was dinged for.

[mintcollector]

One thing I would like to see is a CGC grading classes at large shows with basic steps, examples, and timely Q&A.

 

The grading contests on these boards are a terrific way to sharpen up quickly.

 

Like anything else, it all comes down to experience. Most people learn to grade through reading up in the subject and dealing with comics over time.

 

 

I would agree. However, in other collecting fields (i.e. currency and coins) they do have seminars on grading. I do not think it would be a bad idea for the comic collecting field to ever 'evolve' in this matter.

 

 

CGC does not divulge their grading criteria.

 

Additionally, currency and coin hobbies are much higher evolved as currencies have been around for as long as mankind has been

 

Comics are only a relatively recent hobby spanning a a century (give or take a few decades, depending on your POV).

 

 

Yes, but Overstreet does. Why not teach collectors how to grade using the Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide?

 

Personally, I would love to attend a class held by a dealer on this topic! Especially a reputable dealer like yourself!

 

Sincerely,

 

'mint'

[VintageComics]

One thing I would like to see is a CGC grading classes at large shows with basic steps, examples, and timely Q&A.

 

The grading contests on these boards are a terrific way to sharpen up quickly.

 

Like anything else, it all comes down to experience. Most people learn to grade through reading up in the subject and dealing with comics over time.

 

 

I would agree. However, in other collecting fields (i.e. currency and coins) they do have seminars on grading. I do not think it would be a bad idea for the comic collecting field to ever 'evolve' in this matter.

 

 

CGC does not divulge their grading criteria.

 

Additionally, currency and coin hobbies are much higher evolved as currencies have been around for as long as mankind has been

 

Comics are only a relatively recent hobby spanning a a century (give or take a few decades, depending on your POV).

 

 

Yes, but Overstreet does. Why not teach collectors how to grade using the Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide?

 

Personally, I would love to attend a class held by a dealer on this topic! Especially a reputable dealer like yourself!

 

Sincerely,

 

'mint'

 

I think the grading of coins and currency is a much easier thing to narrow down than comics, which consist of many pages and therefore many possibilities of variations and combinations of defects.

 

Overstreet is a terrific starting point, but even Overstreet did not foresee comics becoming multi-million dollar hobby when those grading standars were originally written and as they evolved.

 

That large swing in price creates the need for a very specialized grading system so that

 

a) books are not done a disservice by undergrading books

b) collectors are not done a disservice by overgrading books

 

I don't have the OSPG in front of me but I do know that rules like a specific defect dropping a book into a VG range might do a book a disservice if the rest of the book is NM/M.

 

You don't want to overgrade or undergrade the book. You want a "correct" grade for that book.

 

I think in that regard CGC has veered away from Overstreet standards.

 

Unfortunately, because there are a few different schools of thought as to what a properly graded book is, and because those schools tend to disagree with each other you'll probably never have a uniform system.

 

I don't know much about coins or currency. Do grading standards vary on those items?

 

 

[mintcollector]

"I don't know much about coins or currency. Do grading standards vary on those items?"

-VintageComics

 

In currency, you can teach the basics, but as expected; differences among the two big grading companies (PMG and PCGS) do exist. That being said, courses are still taught because it is the basics that matter.

 

Coins do have an adpoted standard via the 'Sheldon Grading Scale' (i.e. 1-70) Currency is garded on a 1-70 scale as well. With coins however, eye appeal can impact grading. This is why I think coins are VERY hard to grade overall. It is not just about counting contact marks and looking for evidence of overt cleaning or artificial toning. As such, courses are taught on this subject matter. This is why I cannot figure out why at comic conventions, they do not do offer some sort of education on the grading of comic books.

 

I do agree that coin and currency collecting are more evolved collecting hobbies. This is true. Still, I think with some comic books now selling in the million dollar range; it is time that the industry matured and adopted more professional associations in which we can all benefit from. In fact, this is paramount for the hobby to continue to thrive and evolve in a positive manner.

 

Of course, this is just my opinion and my opinion plus sixty-nine cents; will get you a cup of coffee at McDonald's...provided they are still running the promotion.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

 

 

[smegofna]

If you are a member/dealer every time you submit any comics with the special submission form there is a number on the form that automatically links to your account that you have with them. It is a way for them to know where to navigate the updates and tracking information. There are big dealers out there that are linked with CGC like Heritage Auctions... HA submits thousands of comics to CGC and makes huge profits because grading is a little more lenient on that specific company.

[Aces]

If you are a member/dealer every time you submit any comics with the special submission form there is a number on the form that automatically links to your account that you have with them. It is a way for them to know where to navigate the updates and tracking information. There are big dealers out there that are linked with CGC like Heritage Auctions... HA submits thousands of comics to CGC and makes huge profits because grading is a little more lenient on that specific company.

 

I'm pretty sure they make huge profits because of volume... You know like Walmart.

 

You really can't pay the rent for long with a couple of gift grades. You need volume.

 

 

 

[50 CENT LONG BOX]

If you are a member/dealer every time you submit any comics with the special submission form there is a number on the form that automatically links to your account that you have with them. It is a way for them to know where to navigate the updates and tracking information. There are big dealers out there that are linked with CGC like Heritage Auctions... HA submits thousands of comics to CGC and makes huge profits because grading is a little more lenient on that specific company.

 

[comicdonna]

If you are a member/dealer every time you submit any comics with the special submission form there is a number on the form that automatically links to your account that you have with them. It is a way for them to know where to navigate the updates and tracking information. There are big dealers out there that are linked with CGC like Heritage Auctions... HA submits thousands of comics to CGC and makes huge profits because grading is a little more lenient on that specific company.

[VintageComics]

If you are a member/dealer every time you submit any comics with the special submission form there is a number on the form that automatically links to your account that you have with them. It is a way for them to know where to navigate the updates and tracking information. There are big dealers out there that are linked with CGC like Heritage Auctions... HA submits thousands of comics to CGC and makes huge profits because grading is a little more lenient on that specific company.

 

Well of course they need to know who's books they are grading. They want to make sure that they ship the books back to the correct people.

 

Regardless, only the administrative staff know who's book they are grading because they are the one processing the orders.

 

The graders themselves don't have any sort of information linking the books to their current owners or submitters as far as I know. All books are identified by a bar code sticker from the time that they are unpackaged, during the time that they are on a conveyor to be graded and until the time that they are encapsulated.

 

The only exception to this would be if a book that was recognized was placed in front of them...like for example the Church copy of Marvel Comics #1. In this case, most people know who owns the book and it can't be hidden.

 

Ultimately, though, as was already mentioned they make their money on volume...not by pushing grading fee prices through everyone's nose.

 

Yes, they do vary on grades from time to time but they are human and nobody is perfect.

 

The majority of the time they are consistent.

[mintcollector]

If you are a member/dealer every time you submit any comics with the special submission form there is a number on the form that automatically links to your account that you have with them. It is a way for them to know where to navigate the updates and tracking information. There are big dealers out there that are linked with CGC like Heritage Auctions... HA submits thousands of comics to CGC and makes huge profits because grading is a little more lenient on that specific company.

 

Before going an further with statements like these, I would strongly urge you to present evidence or proof of this claim. Keep in mind that you are coming onto a well respected forum making statements with no evidence, simply because your book came back at a lower grade than expected. Personally, I am glad CGC graded your book with the same exact scrutiny as any other book they have graded over the years. Yes, it is true that grading anything (i.e. coins, currency, or toys); is an art as well as a science. That being said, this does not give you a right to make false claims because you believe you understand grading better than a company that has graded well over one million comic books. The reason why CGC graded comic books carry a premium is because collectors put their trust in the company and have no reason not to.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

[johnshabrock]

even overstreets grading definitions say that at 9.2 you can't have a crease. You mentioned 3 creases.

now is Overstreet and CGC the same on grading? I doubt it. but could it be close? probably.

you probably got lucky with a 9.0