Will TPBs eventually increase in value?

[jimm94]

I also disagree with the idea that monthly comics will become a thing of the past in favor of TPBs. Ad revenue and sales of monthlies is what allows TPBs to be possible, and more importantly, profitable. Marvel's EIC, Joe Quesada, has repeatedly commented that it would cost an enormous amount of money to produce OGN/TPB. Also, sales of monthly comics are increasing.

[OldGuy]

FWIW, I don't take great care when reading a TPB, but on the other hand I do store them in bags in my comic boxes when I'm done reading them.

[lighthouse]

1st printing hardcovers: magic 8-ball says all signs point to yes

1st printing softcover trades: magic 8-ball says: ask again later

maybe I need a new 8-ball

 

But seriously, i dont foresee tbps being an investment in the same sense as we see comics but anything is possible

 

And part of what makes the future murky is that you have no way of knowing which trades are printed to order and which ones were printed in huge quantity... A couple years back there was a Sgt Fury trade that came out and was immediately selling for 2x cover price, because Marvel didn't print enough of them... But the 1st printing of some other trade that comes out this week may have 5,000 identical twins sitting in Memphis waiting to be sold...

 

Right now, a set of six Onslaught trades will set you back about $300... Even when I bought mine in 1999, they were going for about 1.5x cover... Will Marvel ever reprint them? Who knows? I doubt it... But I didn't buy mine in 1999 as an "investment". And I am not selling them now...

[FFB]

I don't "know" this to be true. In fact, I disagree with the basic premise.

 

OK, monthly comics may not disappear, but you get the idea. Most retailers will tell you that sales of trades are on fire, and monthly comics are declining (in total).

 

The question is, do you think trades will someday be worth money (more than cover price)?

 

Marvel's monthly comic sales (non-TPB) have been steadily increasing every quarter since before Spider-Man 1 came out. Granted, that could change, but right now it's not happening. I think that improved story quality has had a lot to do with this.

 

As for the TPB question, I have to go with Lighthouse on this. If he says that some first-print TPBs are worth more than cover, then yes. If TPBs ever take over regular comics, then yes, I think there will be a market for them.

[supapimp]

i'm still waiting for my enemy ace HC by george pratt to go up in value.

[wormboy]

And part of what makes the future murky is that you have no way of knowing which trades are printed to order and which ones were printed in huge quantity... A couple years back there was a Sgt Fury trade that came out and was immediately selling for 2x cover price, because Marvel didn't print enough of them... But the 1st printing of some other trade that comes out this week may have 5,000 identical twins sitting in Memphis waiting to be sold...

 

I agree. I personally think there will be a market for first print TPBs, but, just like comics, you'll need to pick and chose wisely. Obviously, not every trade will increase, just like 90% of monthly comics are [!@#%^&^] and will never be worth anything.

 

I look for trades like 'Walking Dead' and 'Invincible' by Kirkman. Books that went unnoticed when the comics came out. The trades have already been printed, and now everyone is hearing about the stories, so the monthly comics are going for loot . The trades have already been out, so the publisher can't bump up the first printing.

[shiverbones]

i think there will certainly be a market for them, its practically inevitable. There are tons of obscure trades made all the time for things that will likely never have demand for a second printing but involve popular characters, Thor Vikings for example. The analogy for paperbacks is incorrect because most paperbacks aren't collected. Now take a paperback title that involves a collected author or character & its a whole different story. How many times has a book like ozma of oz, red nails, the lion, witch & the wardrobe or the hobbit been reprinted? Even more extreme, 1st paperbacks of things by Edward Gorey or maurice Sendak go crazy high. all 1st editions bring premiums if there is demand for the material. These are books now, there are people who will want a nice bookcase full of attractive first editions.

[sckao]

 

One of the best examples of a TPB going up in value are the Miracleman series of trades and hardcovers. With the rights tied up and no reprints in sight, they easily go for many times cover.

[delekkerste]

One of the best examples of a TPB going up in value are the Miracleman series of trades and hardcovers. With the rights tied up and no reprints in sight, they easily go for many times cover.

 

That's the exception that proves the rule.

[Aces]

Will TPBs eventually increase in value?

 

Only if CGC starts grading them and those pretty labels with 9.8s and 9.9s and 10s show up on eBay.

[mrwoogieman]

Will TPBs eventually increase in value?

 

Only if CGC starts grading them and those pretty labels with 9.8s and 9.9s and 10s show up on eBay.

 

CGC already grades some tpb's, is it a thickness issue for some of them?

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/poplookup/grades_standard.asp?title=Predator+vs%2E+Magnus+Robot+Fighter+++++++++++++++++&publisher=Dark+Horse%2DValiant+++++++&issue=nn+++++&year=1994&issuedate=10%2F94+++++++++++++++

[Aces]

Will TPBs eventually increase in value?

 

Only if CGC starts grading them and those pretty labels with 9.8s and 9.9s and 10s show up on eBay.

 

CGC already grades some tpb's, is it a thickness issue for some of them?

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/poplookup/grades_standard.asp?title=Predator+vs%2E+Magnus+Robot+Fighter+++++++++++++++++&publisher=Dark+Horse%2DValiant+++++++&issue=nn+++++&year=1994&issuedate=10%2F94+++++++++++++++

 

[Hensley300]

Woah there Jimm, if the question is do i think tpb will ever be an investment, im sticking to my answer but if the question is do i think comics will be replaced by tpb Im gonna have to say mainly yes. I feel marvel and dcs main publishing revenue may one day be from tpb, and it definately reflects in the way I purchase my comics. No more extras for me for investing and no more limited series. I just wait for the tpb to come out and just buy read issues now while companies like dark horse and bongo comics roll out simpsons and GIJoe which are still either too new to have tpb or they just havent jumped on the wagon....yet

[FFB]

Woah there Jimm, if the question is do i think tpb will ever be an investment, im sticking to my answer but if the question is do i think comics will be replaced by tpb Im gonna have to say mainly yes. I feel marvel and dcs main publishing revenue may one day be from tpb, and it definately reflects in the way I purchase my comics. No more extras for me for investing and no more limited series. I just wait for the tpb to come out and just buy read issues now while companies like dark horse and bongo comics roll out simpsons and GIJoe which are still either too new to have tpb or they just havent jumped on the wagon....yet

 

If they went to TPBs, they'd lose most of their current readership (as TPBs come out once every several months) and just as importantly, all of their ad revenues. Gene and I discussed this about two or three months ago. It would be a huge revenue loss. I'll try to find the thread.

[ninanina]

I will go to buying strictly back issues of comics if/when comics are no longer published by Marvel of DC. There's a lot of modern stuff out there so cheap, I'm having a major problem reading this stuff fast enough.

 

But, buying a TPB? Not for me. It's just not a comic.

[Zonker]

If they went to TPBs, they'd lose most of their current readership (as TPBs come out once every several months) and just as importantly, all of their ad revenues. Gene and I discussed this about two or three months ago. It would be a huge revenue loss. I'll try to find the thread.

 

Lotsa problems with the TPB-only concept, starting with the TPB price point required if publishers no longer had the monthlies to subsidize the TPB reprints (not to mention the monthlies as a test-market for what storylines/creators are popular enough to likely sell as TPB). BUT... I'd be surprised if the ad revenue were a significant factor. Did you have any data on that facet?

[PovertyRow]

My question is, do you think the trades, specifically first printings, will see significant increase in value?

 

I remember dragging a couple of long boxes of quite high grade BA books to various dealers and being offered almost wholesale prices for them or dealers expressing no interest. I swear those boxes today would buy a couple of new cars if I got them graded. So why do I post this?

 

I have seen so many swings even in the relatively small amount of time I have been collecting (app 23 years but that is WAY after the great days of buying GA books for a buck) that I now refuse to make ANY solid prediction. I remember seeing the Kirby/Ditko pre-hero Marvels being laughed at for $10-$20 each in nice shape. I remember rummaging through boxes of pre-code horror $10-$25 each and buying huge amounts. How about those Seaboard-Atlas books that were dumped in the quarter bins.

 

If anything can be predicted about any specific genre or classification of comic, is that they are unpredictable. First printings of some TPBs may well increase considerably in value. They may not. But I wouldn't put it past them. Especially if CGC starts grading them as well.

[blowout]

No. Reprints.

[ninanina]

Yeah...that's a good one. For some reason...when I want to buy a comic..I'm not looking for reprints.

[FFB]

If they went to TPBs, they'd lose most of their current readership (as TPBs come out once every several months) and just as importantly, all of their ad revenues. Gene and I discussed this about two or three months ago. It would be a huge revenue loss. I'll try to find the thread.

 

Lotsa problems with the TPB-only concept, starting with the TPB price point required if publishers no longer had the monthlies to subsidize the TPB reprints (not to mention the monthlies as a test-market for what storylines/creators are popular enough to likely sell as TPB). BUT... I'd be surprised if the ad revenue were a significant factor. Did you have any data on that facet?

 

Yes. Here is one of my prior posts on the topic. The ad revenue (discussed in the middle of the post) is quite significant.

 

===============================================

 

I don't think that Marvel would give up the revenue that comes from its monthly publishing. Last year, 71% of Marvel's net revenues from publishing came from the direct market, which means LCSs. In the two years prior, it was 76% (2002) and 80% (2001), respectively. Any massive change to its business model would threaten that chunk. There is no guarantee that the comic buying public feels the same way as a few people who buy TPBs do. Even if the TPB thing worked out in the end, it would take a couple of years and Marvel would lose a ton of revenue in the meantime.

 

Then there's the issue of "why?" Everyone knows that TPBs are higher margin products than monthlies. The reason for this though is because TPBs do not carry with them the bulk of the production costs, such as paying the writer, artists, colorists, editors, etc. The printing and distribution costs constitute the vast majority of the costs involved in selling TPBs. If you don't publish the monthlies to subsidize the TPBs, then those production costs get rolled into the TPBs, which suddenly become significantly lower margin items. And if they don't sell as well as the monthlies because of their higher prices and infrequent publishing schedule, then Marvel loses revenue AND has lower margins in its publishing division. Not an attractive prospect.

 

Then there's the issue of advertising. On average, ten pages of each Marvel comic are used for advertising. 17% of Marvel's publishing revenue last year was from advertising, up 50% from the prior year and a major reason why Marvel's publishing division had such a bang-up year last year. TPBs, on the other hand, contain no advertising. Has anyone conducted a study to see if any of the current advertisers would continue to advertise if the book were in TPB format, assuming that Marvel would put advertising into a TPB (which I'm not even sure they're permitted to do)? Those advertisers with time-sensitive advertising (for Comic Conventions, TV shows, movies, etc.) would probably not. And guess what? This is a huge chunk of Marvel's ad revenues. They are not going to give this up. In fact, if you look at Marvel's recent SEC filings and listen to their conference calls, they are actively seeking to expand the advertising aspect of their publishing division because advertisers are suddenly a lot more interested in putting their ads in Marvel's books.

 

Finally, Marvel has specifically stated on several occasions over the last year that it intends to *expand* its core line of comics over the next year, and will try to broaden its demographic appeal by introducing new monthlies that appeal to different demographic groups. Will a person who does not typically buy comics plunk down $17 on a TPB in which he or she does not even really have any interest in the first place? Or might a $2.50 cover price be more likely to convince the consumer to give it a shot? Despite what others have said, I do not think that the switch to all TPBs would bring enough new fans in to replace the ones Marvel would lose.