Upcoming Heritage Auction

[rockman2008]

You don't think it could be our resident 'Billy' fan, do you?

 

It had crossed my mind that he might be marketing/promoting the 'Billy' books for his short-term flipper friends.

[lou_fine]

A number of Billy Wright books were bought and paid for by a private collector hoping to get them upgraded. As you can see he was successful on some, on most he wasn’t, and they’re being re-consigned by him to this upcoming Signature auction.

 

Part of the allure of the BW books was their untouched, OO aspect. Now that at least some of the books have passed into the realm of manipulation, I do hope that the "private collector" takes a bath.

 

Does he really think that other collectors with the wherewithal to be interested in these books aren't aware of the crack-and-resub game, and the generally unfavorable sales history of such books being auctioned immediately after they had just been sold?

 

What a dipstick - greed knows no bounds, does it.

 

Steve;

 

+1

 

Just one minor, but important correction here......the more accurate terminology is private speculator and not a collector in any sense of the word at all!

[ecfanman]

A number of Billy Wright books were bought and paid for by a private collector hoping to get them upgraded. As you can see he was successful on some, on most he wasn’t, and they’re being re-consigned by him to this upcoming Signature auction.

 

Part of the allure of the BW books was their untouched, OO aspect. Now that at least some of the books have passed into the realm of manipulation, I do hope that the "private collector" takes a bath.

 

Does he really think that other collectors with the wherewithal to be interested in these books aren't aware of the crack-and-resub game, and the generally unfavorable sales history of such books being auctioned immediately after they had just been sold?

 

What a dipstick - greed knows no bounds, does it.

 

Was it stated somewhere that the books weren't "manipulated" before they were first auctioned? I don't remember seeing that anywhere. And I don't believe "Original Owner" implies that a book has not been pressed.

 

I would expect that the consignors would have had that option before they were graded and put in the auction. Shouldn't the auction house at least discuss this option with the consignors as there job is to get the consignors the highest prices? And if the consignors did not wish the books to be "manipulated" wouldn't explicitly stating that be a selling point to get higher results?

 

 

That may be the reason a number of books weren't upgraded by a new pressing.

 

 

[Transplant]

Good point about OO vs. unpressed, Gary.

 

I would argue that it might even make more sense to let people play the speculation game. That way you don't have to worry about actual results. People will pay for the potential.

[cheetah]

It shows a glaring lack of understanding of the pressing process to submit so many that failed. More greed than sense.

[sacentaur]

A number of Billy Wright books were bought and paid for by a private collector hoping to get them upgraded. As you can see he was successful on some, on most he wasn’t, and they’re being re-consigned by him to this upcoming Signature auction.

 

Part of the allure of the BW books was their untouched, OO aspect. Now that at least some of the books have passed into the realm of manipulation, I do hope that the "private collector" takes a bath.

 

Does he really think that other collectors with the wherewithal to be interested in these books aren't aware of the crack-and-resub game, and the generally unfavorable sales history of such books being auctioned immediately after they had just been sold?

 

What a dipstick - greed knows no bounds, does it.

 

Was it stated somewhere that the books weren't "manipulated" before they were first auctioned? I don't remember seeing that anywhere. And I don't believe "Original Owner" implies that a book has not been pressed.

 

I would expect that the consignors would have had that option before they were graded and put in the auction. Shouldn't the auction house at least discuss this option with the consignors as there job is to get the consignors the highest prices? And if the consignors did not wish the books to be "manipulated" wouldn't explicitly stating that be a selling point to get higher results?

 

 

That may be the reason a number of books weren't upgraded by a new pressing.

 

 

Anything is possible of course ("untouched" being a poor choice of wording on my part), but if a speculator is going to drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on books to quick flip, then one would presume that they would be informed beforehand so that they could "press" the advantage (for a hoped for profit).

 

We're not talking about an Average Joe here, but a deep-pocket individual who most likely had access to whatever information they require.

 

If not, then the individual is an even bigger fool than was first imagined.

[Cat-Man_America]

A number of Billy Wright books were bought and paid for by a private collector hoping to get them upgraded. As you can see he was successful on some, on most he wasn’t, and they’re being re-consigned by him to this upcoming Signature auction.

 

Part of the allure of the BW books was their untouched, OO aspect. Now that at least some of the books have passed into the realm of manipulation, I do hope that the "private collector" takes a bath.

 

Does he really think that other collectors with the wherewithal to be interested in these books aren't aware of the crack-and-resub game, and the generally unfavorable sales history of such books being auctioned immediately after they had just been sold?

 

What a dipstick - greed knows no bounds, does it.

 

Was it stated somewhere that the books weren't "manipulated" before they were first auctioned? I don't remember seeing that anywhere. And I don't believe "Original Owner" implies that a book has not been pressed.

 

I would expect that the consignors would have had that option before they were graded and put in the auction. Shouldn't the auction house at least discuss this option with the consignors as there job is to get the consignors the highest prices? And if the consignors did not wish the books to be "manipulated" wouldn't explicitly stating that be a selling point to get higher results?

 

 

That may be the reason a number of books weren't upgraded by a new pressing.

 

 

Being the proud owner of four Billy books won in the Heritage Auction my impression is that no manipulation took place before they were slabbed for the earlier auction whether by choice of the consignor, timing, added cost or whatever.

 

That isn't the case this time around, and it's a real shame too.

 

FTR, I have no problem with pressing on a case to case basis (in fact, I wish cover cleaning wasn't considered restoration), but some of the Billy Wright pedigree books were clearly fragile in the first place in spite of good interior page quality. Sadly, pressing has done this collection no favors.

 

For instance, look at before & after scans of the Detective #18 (7.5, White pages; sorry, I don't have easy access to them for comparison at the moment).

 

Anyway, this was a book that I bid on and lost. Now re-listed, it didn't get a bump from having obviously been pressed, but the spine split at the bottom has visibly gotten worse. Oddly, it received the same grade, but eye appeal is markedly worse and it is very doubtful that I'll bid on this copy again!

 

It almost seems criminal that this was done to such a beautiful book, but the collectors, excuse me, speculators, who own these books apparently aren't concerned with the potential damage done since their sole motivation is profit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[clarkkentdds]

Thanks for the clarification Steve.

 

I'm wondering how the flipper can expect to make a profit.

 

Why would the flipper consign them to consecutive auctions? There are also several non BW books with obvious histories available on the auction archives.

 

For instance I was interested in the Superman #26 9.4... But it is the very same book that was auctioned 2 months ago as a 9.2... (And it now overtakes my book as top census.) Surely the consumer will do the homework and see the history? I can't justify paying more for the new 9.4 and rewarding the flipper...

 

This is my recently surpassed #26. (Which has declined in value since the new 9.4 tops it now.) As a top census collector, this press and resub game is driving me crazy!

 

 

 

 

 

[tb]

Being the proud owner of four Billy books won in the Heritage Auction my impression is that no manipulation took place before they were slabbed for the earlier auction whether by choice of the consignor, timing, added cost or whatever.

 

That isn't the case this time around, and it's a real shame too.

 

FTR, I have no problem with pressing on a case to case basis (in fact, I wish cover cleaning wasn't considered restoration), but some of the Billy Wright pedigree books were clearly fragile in the first place in spite of good interior page quality. Sadly, pressing has done this collection no favors.

 

For instance, look at before & after scans of the Detective #18 (7.5, White pages; sorry, I don't have easy access to them for comparison at the moment).

 

Anyway, this was a book that I bid on and lost. Now re-listed, it didn't get a bump from having obviously been pressed, but the spine split at the bottom has visibly gotten worse. Oddly, it received the same grade, but eye appeal is markedly worse and it is very doubtful that I'll bid on this copy again!

 

It almost seems criminal that this was done to such a beautiful book, but the collectors, excuse me, speculators, who own these books apparently aren't concerned with the potential damage done since their sole motivation is profit.

 

Another aspect, which is just as important to me, is that Mr. Merryweather ended up competing against a short term speculator who inflated the price of the book. If the seller ends up with a handsome profit in the May auction, other speculators will take notice and try the same. This kind of bubble-creating practice is not in Heritage's long term interest either and I suspect that they too have mixed feelings about it, although they obviously can't say so publicly.

[Tokay]

Yep, as the winner of 5 BW books, it's driving me crazy that I was likely in some cases bidding against some knucklehead that didn't give a damn about the books. I really want to make a run at the 'Tec 17 and 18, but I think I'm going to hold off and hope this guy takes a bath. Maybe it will help discourage other speculators.

[stagedoorjohnny]

If the seller ends up with a handsome profit in the May auction, other speculators will take notice and try the same.

 

 

I would be shocked if this was the case. If history rhymes, he or she is going to take a bath and would have had a better chance to recoup their costs if they sat on them for at least a year.

[Timely]

Thanks for the clarification Steve.

 

I'm wondering how the flipper can expect to make a profit.

 

Why would the flipper consign them to consecutive auctions? There are also several non BW books with obvious histories available on the auction archives.

 

For instance I was interested in the Superman #26 9.4... But it is the very same book that was auctioned 2 months ago as a 9.2... (And it now overtakes my book as top census.) Surely the consumer will do the homework and see the history? I can't justify paying more for the new 9.4 and rewarding the flipper...

 

This is my recently surpassed #26. (Which has declined in value since the new 9.4 tops it now.) As a top census collector, this press and resub game is driving me crazy!

 

 

 

The same thing happened to me on my Young Allies #1 CGC 9,2 Kansas City Copy. It was the Highest Graded Copy until the San Francisco Copy got pressed from a 9.0 to a 9.6. What can ya do?

 

Since then, a lot of my Highest Graded Copies are now 2nd & 3rd from other copies pressing up.

[Comicdey]

I have the Penn copy of Army Navy 5. Early supersnipe which is a Grail to me. It's a CGC 8.0 with obvious pressible defects and likely a 9.0+ candidate.

 

No way I'd get this pressed

 

It's just too nice as is

 

Thanks for continuing to shine the light on GA manipulation.

[clarkkentdds]

And what is happening Wes, is our recently surpassed 2nd place books lose value because of a newly anointed "manufactured" 1st place book!!!

 

This can't be good for the hobby.

 

I am going to refrain from bidding on books with known histories (especially recent histories) of getting pressed up. Hopefully this will deter the profiteer from doing this. We will see... This has been my policy since I can chart the histories of these books pretty easily. The upcoming Heritage auction will be a good experiment to see how the market responds. This auction in particular has a preponderance of pressed up books. Any predictions?

 

While this might have been common with HG SA Marvel, I am now noticing this more and more with GA.

[ComicConnoisseur]

And what is happening Wes, is our recently surpassed 2nd place books lose value because of a newly anointed "manufactured" 1st place book!!!

 

This can't be good for the hobby.

 

I am going to refrain from bidding on books with known histories (especially recent histories) of getting pressed up. Hopefully this will deter the profiteer from doing this. We will see... This has been my policy since I can chart the histories of these books pretty easily. The upcoming Heritage auction will be a good experiment to see how the market responds. Any predictions?

 

While this might have been common with HG SA Marvel, I am now noticing this more and more with GA.

I wonder if someday in the future that technical advances would be so great in pressing that every comic book could be pressed up to a very uber high grade or 9.8 on a whim?

I hope it doesn`t become true because it would take the fun out of collecting high grade or spending big bucks on high grade.

[clarkkentdds]

Perhaps CGC could certify a book with a grade and "possible grade" noting if the book had pressable defects that could improve the grade ... ?

 

This would level the playing field.

 

I'm tired of chasing my tail in pursuit of newly manufactured top census books that used to be lower on the totem pole. I have sold my 2nd place duplicates in recent months- only to watch them subsequently get pressed above my "keepers". If this doesn't drive a top census collector crazy... I don't know what does...

 

I have noticed that this is also depressing the prices lately. (For pressed books and even virgin books.) I know I have become more reluctant to throw down the big money on a top census book as the possibility of another book surpassing it has become more likely and more common these days...

[adamstrange]

It shows a glaring lack of understanding of the pressing process to submit so many that failed. More greed than sense.

Some folks learn by reading the sign. Some by watching others. Some just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

[adamstrange]

What a gorgeous book!

 

[batman_fan]

If the seller ends up with a handsome profit in the May auction, other speculators will take notice and try the same.

 

 

I would be shocked if this was the case. If history rhymes, he or she is going to take a bath and would have had a better chance to recoup their costs if they sat on them for at least a year.

 

It is hard to envision the person actually being successful with this strategy since they paid the buyers premium at the purchase time and will now pay the sellers premium when they sell (although I suspect Heritage will give them some sort of discount on the selling side).

[ComicConnoisseur]

Perhaps CGC could certify a book with a grade and "possible grade" noting if the book had pressable defects that could improve the grade ... ?

 

This would level the playing field.

 

That would be the equalizer

but I bet it wouldn`t happen for years because of the money that can be profited in just a .5 bump.

When they press AF #15 3.0 to 3.5 and can make a big profit,then the odds of what you suggest are slim and none unfortunately.