Qualifications for "The Best" or "Most Influential"

[Mac Man]

A little background before the comic question

 

I sit on my college's general education standards committee and we regularly assess student learning. The word competent often comes up in conversation, and this is often followed with "What does competent really look like?" So, part of our work is coming up with determining a set of standards for each ability to assess competency of our students. Super fun times

 

Now, we see lists and headlines all the time about what are the Top/Best/Most Influential/__________ 10 comics of all time. My question is, subjectivity aside, how do we determine what these terms really mean? I think, more often than not, these terms are really substitutes for varying grades of that writer's opinion.

 

Now, I figure we can probably look at statistics related to a comic's publication (monthly print run, years in print, etc) as one area to determine success, but what other areas would help qualify these superlatives?

[Transplant]

This sounds like work, not fun. Are we shooting for Lean Six Sigma certification for our discussions?

[Mac Man]

Comic books are a part of my work

[COI]

subjectivity aside

 

Not sure that's possible.

[Ryan.]

I know pornography a top ten comic when I see it.

[seanfingh]

 

I use what I call the "Roadhouse Scale." If it is better than Roadhouse, it is frickin' awesome. If it is worse than Roadhouse, then I kick it down to the Red Dawn scale. If it is worse than Red Dawn, then it blows.

[Park]

I use what I call the "Roadhouse Scale." If it is better than Roadhouse, it is frickin' awesome. If it is worse than Roadhouse, then I kick it down to the Red Dawn scale. If it is worse than Red Dawn, then it blows.

 

You have Roadhouse above Red Dawn?

[Dr. Balls]

I use what I call the "Roadhouse Scale." If it is better than Roadhouse, it is frickin' awesome. If it is worse than Roadhouse, then I kick it down to the Red Dawn scale. If it is worse than Red Dawn, then it blows.

 

 

I think I'd substitute Ghost for Red Dawn.

[Dr. Balls]

 

[Park]

[seanfingh]

I use what I call the "Roadhouse Scale." If it is better than Roadhouse, it is frickin' awesome. If it is worse than Roadhouse, then I kick it down to the Red Dawn scale. If it is worse than Red Dawn, then it blows.

 

You have Roadhouse above Red Dawn?

 

Absolutely. Red Dawn has no nudity and no soundtrack. Roadhouse has nudity and a rockin soundtrack. Red Dawn also has no kung fu and lacks anyone getting their throat ripped out. It has good violence, but not hand to hand. Red Dawn is not the complete package. Roadhouse is.

[jools&jim]

 

When I was in college at a fine Jesuit institution, competency was judged by the successful completion of course work (some of which was academically rigorous; some of which was nonsense) and the passing of exams.

 

As a student, this was generally more difficult for me in subjects which required real knowledge--e.g., Latin, mathematics, physics, some (but not nearly all) philosophy classes, classics in general, etc.--than it was in, say, my lit classes, where I achieved excellent grades--but probably very little real "competence"--by baking up on weed and BS'ing my way through as much of it as I could...and faking the rest.

 

How this applies to inherently subjective evaluations like "Best Artist" or "Best Series" is hard to say. In the comic book world, there are things we like, and things we don't...things that rule, and things that suck. Or, as Donald Sutherland put it:

 

 

"It's a piece of s--t. Would anyone like to smoke some pot...?"

 

Ah...clarity, like God's good air!!!!!

 

[jools&jim]

I use what I call the "Roadhouse Scale." If it is better than Roadhouse, it is frickin' awesome. If it is worse than Roadhouse, then I kick it down to the Red Dawn scale. If it is worse than Red Dawn, then it blows.

 

You have Roadhouse above Red Dawn?

 

Absolutely. Red Dawn has no nudity and no soundtrack. Roadhouse has nudity and a rockin soundtrack. Red Dawn also has no kung fu and lacks anyone getting their throat ripped out. It has good violence, but not hand to hand. Red Dawn is not the complete package. Roadhouse is.

 

What never made any sense to me about Red Dawn is that not even one of those nascent brat pack dudes seemed at all interested in getting it on with Lea Thompson or Jennifer Grey. It was like the high school wrestling team gone horribly wrong. Maybe they should have mounted up on unicorns and charged the Reds...

[seanfingh]

I use what I call the "Roadhouse Scale." If it is better than Roadhouse, it is frickin' awesome. If it is worse than Roadhouse, then I kick it down to the Red Dawn scale. If it is worse than Red Dawn, then it blows.

 

You have Roadhouse above Red Dawn?

 

Absolutely. Red Dawn has no nudity and no soundtrack. Roadhouse has nudity and a rockin soundtrack. Red Dawn also has no kung fu and lacks anyone getting their throat ripped out. It has good violence, but not hand to hand. Red Dawn is not the complete package. Roadhouse is.

 

What never made any sense to me about Red Dawn is that not even one of those nascent brat pack dudes seemed at all interested in getting it on with Lea Thompson or Jennifer Grey. Maybe they should have mounted up on unicorns and charged the Reds!

 

Exactly. It is not that RD is bad. It is OK. That is why it is a perfect bellwether for badness. Worse than RD = bad. Obviously this is tongue in cheek, but it kind of works.

[ComicConnoisseur]

When I was in college at a fine Jesuit institution, competency was judged by the successful completion of course work (some of which was academically rigorous; some of which was nonsense) and the passing of exams.

 

As a student, this was generally more difficult for me in subjects which required real knowledge--e.g., Latin, mathematics, physics, some (but not nearly all) philosophy classes, classics in general, etc.--than it was in, say, my lit classes, where I achieved excellent grades--but probably very little real "competence"--by baking up on weed and BS'ing my way through as much of it as I could...and faking the rest.

How this applies to inherently subjective evaluations like "Best Artist" or "Best Series" is hard to say. In the comic book world, there are things we like, and things we don't...things that rule, and things that suck. Or, as Donald Sutherland put it:

 

 

"It's a piece of s--t. Would anyone like to smoke some pot...?"

 

Ah...clarity, like God's good air!!!!!

 

 

philosophy,english classes and social ethics I found out I must be a good bs student, and tell the professors what they want me to learn,and don`t try to re-invent the wheel = A

 

unfortunately that same strategy doesn`t work in mathematics, physics, human anatomy and chemistry.

[Jeffro.]

I use what I call the "Roadhouse Scale." If it is better than Roadhouse, it is frickin' awesome. If it is worse than Roadhouse, then I kick it down to the Red Dawn scale. If it is worse than Red Dawn, then it blows.

 

You have Roadhouse above Red Dawn?

 

Yeah, what's up with that?

[Jeffro.]

I use what I call the "Roadhouse Scale." If it is better than Roadhouse, it is frickin' awesome. If it is worse than Roadhouse, then I kick it down to the Red Dawn scale. If it is worse than Red Dawn, then it blows.

 

You have Roadhouse above Red Dawn?

 

Absolutely. Red Dawn has no nudity and no soundtrack. Roadhouse has nudity and a rockin soundtrack. Red Dawn also has no kung fu and lacks anyone getting their throat ripped out. It has good violence, but not hand to hand. Red Dawn is not the complete package. Roadhouse is.

 

Is anyone in Roadhouse a high school student who gets to run around and kill commies with their own AK-47s? No?

 

I didn't think so. Red Dawn FTW!

[gyro-1]

A little background before the comic question

 

I sit on my college's general education standards committee and we regularly assess student learning. The word competent often comes up in conversation, and this is often followed with "What does competent really look like?" So, part of our work is coming up with determining a set of standards for each ability to assess competency of our students. Super fun times

 

Now, we see lists and headlines all the time about what are the Top/Best/Most Influential/__________ 10 comics of all time. My question is, subjectivity aside, how do we determine what these terms really mean? I think, more often than not, these terms are really substitutes for varying grades of that writer's opinion.

 

Now, I figure we can probably look at statistics related to a comic's publication (monthly print run, years in print, etc) as one area to determine success, but what other areas would help qualify these superlatives?

Isnt it all subjective to the observer?

Those who crunch the #s control the output as in strange little men in a dark room grade books for CGC ?

[DeliBebek]

MacMan, it seems you won't get much out of this.

 

I think influence is the most measurable of the qualities you suggest, but even that is very difficult to pin down. If two creative products have similarities, they may be influenced by the same earlier work. Even if one creative person claims to have been influenced by a particular other creative person, that is sometimes just an attempt to find legitimacy.

 

Another question is whether influence and/or greatness is always reflected in sales. That definition of great doesn't fit with the creative works we call great on a daily basis. Was "Avatar" the greatest or most influential movie ever made?

[dupont2005]

 

Now, I figure we can probably look at statistics related to a comic's publication (monthly print run, years in print, etc) as one area to determine success, but what other areas would help qualify these superlatives?

Same as with record sales, what's good will rarely correlate with what sells or what is most influential. It's easy to figure what sold the best and was therefore most popular. What's most influential could be arguable but only so much. It's fairly easy to figure out who created the "house style" for mainstream comics for any given decade. What's best is pretty much a matter of opinion and will vary from person to person.