Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[drdonaldblake]

the new buyers in the last 2 years, so ive heard rumored , are the Facebook guy, multimillionaires from China (to whom 2-4 million USD is pocket change) and of course Di Caprio

 

 

[500Club]

[

I'm not apologizing for Doug. I'm just of the opinion that its senseless to question his reasoning for consigning his books to Heritage. I also find it slightly ridiculous that there is such extreme hostility toward the books themselves (with people refusing to bid on, or even watch, the auction) because of the character history of the consignor. These books are arguably the finest examples in existence. Once sold and resold, should the books be avoided and ignored because Doug once owned them? Should we ignore every book previously sold on Pedigree's site because they were once sold through Doug's company? It just makes no sense. This is a hobby about collecting funny books, and some of the comments in this thread just seem to miss the mark.

Personally I think he's a lowlife piece of sheit.

 

Not surprised to see you jump into this fight...you seem to like it when the odds are in your favor...Sardo's comments are well said... (thumbs u

 

I will agree that Sardo's comments are well said, though.

[Bluetooth-migration]

Don't really care about this auction, never will be likely to afford such rare air delicacies, but I do sincerely hope a wicked karmic payback will be in store for Dougie and his ilk one day.

 

 

 

"That will do nicely!"

[Mark 1]

People have a lot of time on their hands....

[jkrk]

Talking about my paranoia, suppositions, conspiracies... Anything but facts.

 

1)HA is as honest as an auction house can be. What company who has a major international business (coins) is going to tarnish their image to make a few extra bucks by illegally playing around with comics?

 

2)Many DS books will be going to new collectors.

 

3)Every DS book has already been maximized.

 

4)Many ultra hg collectors will own DS books soon (whether they buy them directly or indirectly).

 

5)Numerous Ultra HG books have been micro trimmed.

 

[Mark 1]

 

5)Numerous Ultra HG books have been micro trimmed.

 

Can you elaborate please? Which books specifically besides the JIM we know about?

 

[jkrk]

 

5)Numerous Ultra HG books have been micro trimmed.

 

Can you elaborate please? Which books specifically besides the JIM we know about?

 

 

"Talking about my paranoia, suppositions, conspiracies... Anything but facts."

 

[Mark 1]

But some of the things your wrote are factual....

 

Points 2 and 4 will be true.

 

 

[jkrk]

But some of the things your wrote are factual....

 

Points 2 and 4 will be true.

 

 

I would label those as suppositions. (thumbs u

 

 

[500Club]

 

5)Numerous Ultra HG books have been micro trimmed.

 

Can you elaborate please? Which books specifically besides the JIM we know about?

 

 

I think he's a sarcastic Doug Schmell apologist.

[Mark 1]

But some of the things your wrote are factual....

 

Points 2 and 4 will be true.

 

 

I would label those as suppositions. (thumbs u

 

 

(thumbs u

[jkrk]

 

5)Numerous Ultra HG books have been micro trimmed.

 

Can you elaborate please? Which books specifically besides the JIM we know about?

 

 

I think he's a sarcastic Doug Schmell apologist.

 

What is a DS apologist?

[500Club]

But some of the things your wrote are factual....

 

Points 2 and 4 will be true.

 

 

I would label those as suppositions. (thumbs u

 

Correct. 5 is a fact, however, accomplished by Mr Ewert. Whether DS has more of those items is supposition.

[FFB]

Think about all the new books that have come to market and I think it's fair to say there are a lot of buyers out there.

 

There are definitely a lot of buyers, but a lot (maybe most) of those buyers are also sellers, which means that as books are coming in, books also have to go out. At some point there will be too many books out there.

 

Too many books might be the wrong way to phrase it.

 

Remember that in economics whenever prices drop low enough, people start buying again. It's true in EVERY cyclical economy whether it's stocks or comics.

 

So even if the market is flooded with books and prices drop as soon as prices drop to a certain point people start buying again propping them up. It's human nature and it's happened time and time again.

 

The problem with this is that comics are not stocks; there is a relatively tiny group of collectors keeping the high grade market afloat; if this tiny group experiences a "crash", most will likely exit the hobby and not return in the same capacity if at all, even if prices are low. I would even say ESPECIALLY if prices are low. Strong prices get people in a frenzy to buy, low prices turn people off, because people tend to follow the herd. Buyers want to see other people spending to feel comfortable with their own buying.

 

Remember, the collector base is aging. The increase in prices that we've seen can largely be attributed to the fact that the people with the most emotional/nostalgic attachment to these books have hit the prime of their financial lives. If enough of these spenders get burned by a crash, the market may never recover. Does this mean no one will be buying books? No.

 

 

This is wrong. Dead wrong. There is a relatively huge group of collectors who keep all of the comic market affloat. Some are high grade collectors, some are GA collectors, some buy what they like. But the fact is, unless you are out there doing it every day, you don't know who is buying what, and how many people are buying it.

 

The simple fact is that for everyone buyer you know, like Cheetah, and Doc Joe, and Barton, and Doug and Tom and the few others that are known by this board, there are a dozen you don't know about. Many I don't know about. I know I sold books to Eminem this weekend at Motor City Comic Con. So did Bob. There are people in this hobby buying books that no one on this board will ever know about.

 

I have guys at SDCC who I am relatively certain don't buy books anywhere else, except at the show. I am sure there are many stars, athletes, millionaires and billionaires, etc who love comics and are buying books that you and I will never know about.

 

I don't think this thing of ours will ever end, at least not in our lifetime, unless the entire economy crashes. At which point, no one is going to care anyway.

 

I completely agree. The characters are more popular now than they have maybe ever been, and there are a lot of rich people who like comics and need to find interesting places to store wealth. I don't think the comic "bubble" will burst until the movie "bubble" bursts. And I don't think that'll happen any time soon, as long as they keep making entertaining comic book movies and TV shows.

[jkrk]

But some of the things your wrote are factual....

 

Points 2 and 4 will be true.

 

 

I would label those as suppositions. (thumbs u

 

Correct. 5 is a fact, however, accomplished by Mr Ewert. Whether DS has more of those items is supposition.

 

I believe that quite a number of ultra high grade copies were trimmed and are in collectors hands. Perhaps the technique is still being used?

 

However, I also believe that Most aren't aware that they were trimmed.

 

That's my paranoia acting up.

[500Club]

But some of the things your wrote are factual....

 

Points 2 and 4 will be true.

 

 

I would label those as suppositions. (thumbs u

 

Correct. 5 is a fact, however, accomplished by Mr Ewert. Whether DS has more of those items is supposition.

 

I believe that quite a number of ultra high grade copies were trimmed and are in collectors hands. Perhaps the technique is still being used?

 

However, I also believe that Most aren't aware that they were trimmed.

 

That's my paranoia acting up.

I share that same paranoia, brother.

[Bronty]

Think about all the new books that have come to market and I think it's fair to say there are a lot of buyers out there.

 

There are definitely a lot of buyers, but a lot (maybe most) of those buyers are also sellers, which means that as books are coming in, books also have to go out. At some point there will be too many books out there.

 

Too many books might be the wrong way to phrase it.

 

Remember that in economics whenever prices drop low enough, people start buying again. It's true in EVERY cyclical economy whether it's stocks or comics.

 

So even if the market is flooded with books and prices drop as soon as prices drop to a certain point people start buying again propping them up. It's human nature and it's happened time and time again.

 

The problem with this is that comics are not stocks; there is a relatively tiny group of collectors keeping the high grade market afloat; if this tiny group experiences a "crash", most will likely exit the hobby and not return in the same capacity if at all, even if prices are low. I would even say ESPECIALLY if prices are low. Strong prices get people in a frenzy to buy, low prices turn people off, because people tend to follow the herd. Buyers want to see other people spending to feel comfortable with their own buying.

 

Remember, the collector base is aging. The increase in prices that we've seen can largely be attributed to the fact that the people with the most emotional/nostalgic attachment to these books have hit the prime of their financial lives. If enough of these spenders get burned by a crash, the market may never recover. Does this mean no one will be buying books? No.

 

 

This is wrong. Dead wrong. There is a relatively huge group of collectors who keep all of the comic market affloat. Some are high grade collectors, some are GA collectors, some buy what they like. But the fact is, unless you are out there doing it every day, you don't know who is buying what, and how many people are buying it.

 

The simple fact is that for everyone buyer you know, like Cheetah, and Doc Joe, and Barton, and Doug and Tom and the few others that are known by this board, there are a dozen you don't know about. Many I don't know about. I know I sold books to Eminem this weekend at Motor City Comic Con. So did Bob.

 

Interesting. may I ask what he bought?

[jkrk]

Think about all the new books that have come to market and I think it's fair to say there are a lot of buyers out there.

 

There are definitely a lot of buyers, but a lot (maybe most) of those buyers are also sellers, which means that as books are coming in, books also have to go out. At some point there will be too many books out there.

 

Too many books might be the wrong way to phrase it.

 

Remember that in economics whenever prices drop low enough, people start buying again. It's true in EVERY cyclical economy whether it's stocks or comics.

 

So even if the market is flooded with books and prices drop as soon as prices drop to a certain point people start buying again propping them up. It's human nature and it's happened time and time again.

 

The problem with this is that comics are not stocks; there is a relatively tiny group of collectors keeping the high grade market afloat; if this tiny group experiences a "crash", most will likely exit the hobby and not return in the same capacity if at all, even if prices are low. I would even say ESPECIALLY if prices are low. Strong prices get people in a frenzy to buy, low prices turn people off, because people tend to follow the herd. Buyers want to see other people spending to feel comfortable with their own buying.

 

Remember, the collector base is aging. The increase in prices that we've seen can largely be attributed to the fact that the people with the most emotional/nostalgic attachment to these books have hit the prime of their financial lives. If enough of these spenders get burned by a crash, the market may never recover. Does this mean no one will be buying books? No.

 

 

This is wrong. Dead wrong. There is a relatively huge group of collectors who keep all of the comic market affloat. Some are high grade collectors, some are GA collectors, some buy what they like. But the fact is, unless you are out there doing it every day, you don't know who is buying what, and how many people are buying it.

 

The simple fact is that for everyone buyer you know, like Cheetah, and Doc Joe, and Barton, and Doug and Tom and the few others that are known by this board, there are a dozen you don't know about. Many I don't know about. I know I sold books to Eminem this weekend at Motor City Comic Con. So did Bob. There are people in this hobby buying books that no one on this board will ever know about.

 

I have guys at SDCC who I am relatively certain don't buy books anywhere else, except at the show. I am sure there are many stars, athletes, millionaires and billionaires, etc who love comics and are buying books that you and I will never know about.

 

I don't think this thing of ours will ever end, at least not in our lifetime, unless the entire economy crashes. At which point, no one is going to care anyway.

 

I completely agree. The characters are more popular now than they have maybe ever been, and there are a lot of rich people who like comics and need to find interesting places to store wealth. I don't think the comic "bubble" will burst until the movie "bubble" bursts. And I don't think that'll happen any time soon, as long as they keep making entertaining comic book movies and TV shows.

 

As long as you have new money moving into a business prices should rise. However, if the movie popularity brings too many naive players into the game, and prices go parabolic then we are talking about a bubble that won't be sustained. Not saying we are there .... yet. I would become nervous if I saw too many books like a $3500 Superman 6 trade for $15000.

[lou_fine]

Exactly, the stress might cause spine ticks.

 

Doug's books being auctioned off of Heritage will sell high. When the new owners try to re-sell, they will sell lower. My prediction

 

Well, this is already pretty much a given as everybody knows by now that the Heritage hype machine will always maximize the dollars realized on their featured collection auctions.

 

This was quite evident with their recent Billy Wright books which generally could not hit the same dollars on the second go round. This has happened time amd time again with the big hyped collections from Heritage.

[lou_fine]

and are you saying that he took pacfic coast comics and broke them out and pressed them and resubmitted them...not on the high grade stuff

 

Yes, of course on the high grade stuff.

 

Yes, time and time again until CGC got so tired of it or was finally satifised with all of the resubmission fees they were able to squeeze out of Doug that they finally gave him the upgrade. And yes, most definitely only on the uber high grade stuff as that's all that Doug was interested in.

 

How many times did some of those Marvel keys go back into CGC for grading?